 Poster: A snowHead
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Backcountry Packs. Just doing a little research for new product and thought this would be a great place to start...If you could have the dream backcountry daypack designed to your spec, what features would it have? Which is your current pack of choice and why?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 5-03-12 18:46; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Airbag, avalung, lots of bright colours (green, purple, orange, blue, red - maybe in a sortof harlequin style), around 30l, comfortable to wear whilst loaded (my one criticism of my BD Covert is that with skis attached, the avalung shoulder strap digs in quite a bit), waterproof, seperate compartments for shovel/probe and thermals/food/etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Currently using a Mystery Ranch Fuze as my daypack (in bright orange daaahlink).
http://www.mysteryranch.com/recreation/skiing-snowboarding-packs/fuze-pack
Would ultimately like something around 27L with:
- Good frame, which is the number one concern. My current pack is light as a feather and doesn't move around too much even when full of random stuff.
- Seperate 'wet' compartment for avi tools and skins.
- Airbag. <--- next big purchase for me for sure.
- A-frame ski carry. My current pack is diagonal and that isn't an issue for short carries but I've done 4 hours and around 12 miles carrying skis up and sadly back down a mountain. Not fun!
- Reinforced base.
- Clam-shell style access.
- Largeish waterproofish pocket at the top of the pack inside the main compartment for the small bits and bobs you want to make sure stay accessible.
- Routing for Camelbak style drinking doodads.
- Big ass zippers with sizable loops of cord attached to make opening things with gloves/mitts on easy.
Less useful but still nice:
- Climbing harness style gear loops on the hip belt. Pockets on there are sodding useless and at least it makes wearing a harness and rucksack marginally more comfy.
- Emergency whistle to blow in crowded funiculars.
- Eye bleaching colour scheme.
- Matching onsie.
I'm available for further product design/homework help at a reasonable rate. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Cheers for that. Regarding the ski carry position, is it just down to personal preference as i seem to have had differing opinions. Would a pack that carried a ski down either side work?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snowmule, it's balance mostly. A-frame is basically down either side and people will join the skis together at the top to make it a bit more stable. The problem with diagonal carry (across the back of the pack from one corner to the other) is that it's neccessarily asymetrical which puts stress on your muscles asymetrically. That's a receipe for not having a good time on long carries. It also makes climbing with skis marginally more difficult.
Also diagonal carry puts the skis slightly further out from your center of mass than a-frame, especially when the pack starts getting larger.
The differing opinion probably comes from what people are doing. More carrying/climbing means a-frame is preferable, less and the conveniance of diagonal ski carry is an advantage. In my opinion, currently owning two diagonal carry packs and one a-frame, the a-frame wins everytime for comfort.
Royalty cheques in the post right? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Snowmule wrote: |
| Cheers for that. Regarding the ski carry position, is it just down to personal preference as i seem to have had differing opinions. Would a pack that carried a ski down either side work? |
I can do both on mine. Diagonal is quicker to set up so I use it for short hikes, but the balance is much better A-frame style.
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Snowmule, is this you?
http://www.snowmule.com/Snowmule/Snowmule_Pack.html
If so the result you are looking for is almost diametrically opposed to that complete POS some poor people actually, well maybe, paid money for.
EDIT: A little harsh and I've done a bit of googling since for the price point. But seriously that's overengineering if ever I saw it.
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Crikey, Snowmule, that's quite a design.
My fave pack ao far was an Osprey 22L one that worked lovely for both running home from the office and randonneeing the Tetons.
Firm skeleton, diagonal ski carry although I appreciate the A-frame requirement. Few pockets but no shortage noticed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Funnily enough, yes snowmule is our company and yes quite a few people have paid money for this pack! No offence taken! The Snowmule rucksack is designed for family skiing, so is a completely different product to what somebody like yourself may be interested in. However, I have had a number of serious enquiries from backcountry skiers from different parts of the world who all seem to be looking for specific things in one pack and are struggling. My husband and I did have a life before children and do a bit of backcountry skiing but we need to get a good cross section of feedback and understanding from people who are 'backcountry hardnuts' ie people who really understand the different problems/discomfort/safety issues of serious off piste skiing. We are a small company who have no restrictions on what we develop so, as long as the spec is what people want/need, the quality remains top notch and we fit it into a design that people will buy then it is worth researching. Hence the post. Thanks again for your help so far and the cheque will be in the post tomorrow!
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Thanks Freerider! Never knowingly undercatered is our motto!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Love my Dakine Heli Pro, well when my little snowboarder hasn't nicked it. The possibility of both ski and board carry is a big plus, plenty of room for all the safety gear and other bits and bobs needed for the day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Osprey Kode 30.
Brilliantly made, tough, carry your skis A-frame or diagonal, avvy kit separate from extra layers/grub due to rear entry panel, super comfy, external helmet carry, waistbelt pockets you can actually fit stuff in.
Have a BCA Stash and NF Hammerhead down the sizing scale for slackcountry/piste use and neither is even close in terms of fit, function or design.
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So I do think you need to clarify the question... are you talking backcountry with some lift access or back country with not a lift in sight?
Anyway I use an Osprey Mutant 38 for backcountry skiing in the Canadian rockies - this is without a lift in sight. I come from an mountaineering environment so that influences my choice...
Some comments
Unlike meh I actually I'd actually like some pockets on the hip belts to keep snacks in.
I like A-frame carry
I like a simple big compartment with maybe a smaller compartment for wet stuff
Buckles etc must work in the snow even when they get iced up.
Ditto making sure everything can be handled with big gloves etc
Weight is important to me (light is much better)
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You know it makes sense.
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Snowmule, yeah sorry for being an back bottom.
The thing I'd recommend if you seriously want to target off-piste and backcountry users is to get in touch with them. Sew some stuff together and get the people you think are most representative of your customer base out using it for feedback. Certainly my preference and the preference of people I know doing similar stuff is for simple, bomb-proof kit that does no more or less than it needs to do.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| meh wrote: |
Snowmule, yeah sorry for being an back bottom.
The thing I'd recommend if you seriously want to target off-piste and backcountry users is to get in touch with them. Sew some stuff together and get the people you think are most representative of your customer base out using it for feedback. Certainly my preference and the preference of people I know doing similar stuff is for simple, bomb-proof kit that does no more or less than it needs to do. |
+1
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ref the lift or no lift question- What would the main differences be between what you would need? General feedback suggests weight, balance, practical storgae options. D you think it is possible to have a bag that does both?
Another question which i am allowed to ask being female is colour. There are statistics which say that pack companies go wild with a bright option to create desire but most people eventually buy the same pack in black.
Black goes with anything but there are also safety benefits of having something bright on if something goes wrong. Any thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You can go smaller on lifts because you are typically nearer 'safety' and also get a ride up the mountain. My lift served skiing pack is either the same if I'm planning on maybe wandering off or carrying a lot or a much smaller 11L pack that carries avi gear and not much else. The advantage of the latter is not needing to take it off on the chair lift. Also with the smaller pack you'd be expecting to carry the skis way less so diagonal ski carry is okay, especially given a-frame is going to be much harder to organise in that size.
Colour is a marketing question surely. AFAIK there are some pretty reliable market indicators sold around each year for the forthcoming year? AFAIK the industry is moving away from the bright solids towards more pastel colours (to my disgust). If your numbers say black I'd make the most packs in black.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I recommend a top opening bag with a draw cord and a lid. I have a rucksack (now retired!) that opens fully with a zip going round three sides, they are the top and two verticals when on my back. I have the zip come open when boot packing with the ski A-Framed on the bag. I did not notice the change in weight as almost everything fell out. I was saved by other kind souls who collected my kit and carried it up to me.
Other good things in a back country bag:
- Internal storage that allows very quick access to shovel and probe without risking the loss of, or snow getting into, all the other kit.
- Internal storage for, possibly wet, skins.
- Internal dry storage for spare clothing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What is the current top spec pack 25/30L?
Adrian, Typically what dry spare kit would you carry?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Snowmule wrote: |
Ref the lift or no lift question- What would the main differences be between what you would need? General feedback suggests weight, balance, practical storgae options. D you think it is possible to have a bag that does both?
Another question which i am allowed to ask being female is colour. There are statistics which say that pack companies go wild with a bright option to create desire but most people eventually buy the same pack in black.
Black goes with anything but there are also safety benefits of having something bright on if something goes wrong. Any thoughts? |
I'd carry more kit if further from the lifts - maps, food, layers, maybe ropes/etc depending on location.
I HATE it when stuff only comes in black. There's nothing worse than when you've researched that perfect bit of technical gear, and it only comes in such a boring colour. Good technical stuff is often fairly pricey, so I want it to look good as well as perform. Vain I know, but I just hate black/brown/grey/white gear. Get some funky colours going on. I guess you could justify that form a safety/visibility sense too, but I don't think it would make all that much REAL difference tbh.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Someone needs to make a Marmot La Meije with airbag facility and maybe a zippered pouch pocket built into the top of the pack. that was the bestest backcountry/touring pack ever. maybe a bit big for lift-served stuff.
accessing the main compartment via a zip built into the back of the pack was genius and I can't believe more mfrs haven't picked that up
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I think removable airbag is almost becoming a must have for any serious backcountry pack system. If so you are well behind the curve.
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fatbob, It seems a logical thought. Anyone know what the airbag system on its own weighs?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Snowmule,
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Anyone know what the airbag system on its own weighs?
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The RAS system weight is 850g excluding the cylinder which is 500g approx
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks livetoski!
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| Snowmule wrote: |
| Adrian, Typically what dry spare kit would you carry? |
I normally carry a spare hat and spare gloves. Depending on the weather forecast I often carry a light fleece or gilet. Conversely, if I need to shed a layer then I want somewhere dry to store it. Then there are goggles that are best kept dry until needed.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm a big fan of ARVA gear. You don't see it often in the UK but it's starting to come through and they have a distributor. Their rucksacks are very good!!
http://en.arva-equipment.com/
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dot., They certainly look the business! Quite like the front pocket on the rescue pack.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Another question I have is shoulder straps. Good fitting shoulder straps seem few and far between. Quite often there is section which comes around in front of the shoulder which stands proud. Which packs have the closest and most comfortable fit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Snowmule, I'm going to have to point you towards Mystery Ranch for that, the frame and straps are superb.
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FAQ
and I am sure this will only increase over the next couple of years.
)
