 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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waynos, the Kleine Zeitung says it was not clear if the piste was open or not. The other one says it was because not much new snow had fallen overnight.
Remember with the 24/7 reporting we have a "media vacuum" that always needs filling. Until the official report is published no real facts will be made known. It sounds quite a big from the description in the second article and may be one of the Gleitlawinen that we have been hearing about as it was on a red run. About a 100m wide and the snow piled up to a depth of about a 1.5m
I remember a similar event in La Plagne a few years ago when the piste just slid away under some friends skiing on a blue run. As it was a blue one they did not travel far and were only caught up to their hips and we were able to free them without any problems. Scary all the same though.
Sad that someone has lost their life whatever the circumstances.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
were only caught up to their hips and we were able to free them without any problems. Scary all the same though.
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 sounds more than scary! Sad news from Ischgl. If it turns out to have been an an open piste, won't be the first such casualty this year. However careful the piste authorities are, they have some impossible decisions to make, don't they?
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Wow that is scary, was there a few weeks ago and that was one of my favourite runs, it goes down the valley kind of on its own, when I was there there were lots of slides visible on the large face on skiers right as you go down, but there are no pistes on that face and the bottom of that face is a long way from the piste, wouldn't have thought a slide there could be problematic. there is also a semi itinerary piste on skiers left at the end (marked 4a on the map) where I found the best snow while I was there. I would have thought off piste there would be a much more likely place to get in trouble. Again though, a slide from there would be unlikely to cause a problem on the piste.
EDIT actually I see it was on 7a which is the past further down, that was closed the day I was there but looked like a nice run
Rip in any event: (
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Swedish news report that it was a red slope that was open, the man that die was a 50 years Swedish , sad news,,
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Samerberg Sue,
Excuse my ignorance, what is a Gleitlawinen?
Edit horrible news , thinking about where the piste is there are some slide prone slopes above it.
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T Bar, a Gleitschneelawinen is a full depth slide. This season saw a very dry and warm Autumn. The ground did not cool as quickly as it normally does and there was almost no snow in the northern Alps. Then the weather switched suddenly to deliver very heavy snow across the northern Alps. But because of the warm ground the heavy snowpack didn't bond as it would have done on colder ground. So all season long in much of the northern Alps there has been a weakness where the snow meets the ground.
You can see this in the glide cracks or "whale mouths" which have appeared in a number of places. Big cracks right down to the ground. What these show is the pull of gravity on the snowpack and the fact that it isn't gripping as it would do normally. On grassy and especially grassy and steep ground the weight of the snow can release the whole snow pack suddenly without warning even in cold weather. This risk will last all season and can't be triggered through normal avalanche control methods.
Whether this incident was the result of a Gleitschneelawinen and whether the piste was or wasn't closed will I guess come out in the next day or two.
Separately the long period of cold weather followed by snow and wind in the Eastern Alps will have set up a completely different avalanche risk over the next day or so.
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| T Bar wrote: |
Samerberg Sue,
Excuse my ignorance, what is a Gleitlawinen?
Edit horrible news , thinking about where the piste is there are some slide prone slopes above it. |
What Nozawaonsen said. Basically translates as glide avalanche - been quite a lot of chat on here recently about this and glide cracks etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nozawaonsen, clarky999,
Thanks
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This feels a bit close to home, as skied 7a only two weeks ago....am surprised this part of the run experienced the problem. The higher part of the run - 7 - looks far more exposed to big avalanches from the right hand side. When I was there a couple of years ago there was a significant sized on piste avalanche that went right across piste 7 while it was open.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I skied that run the week before last. Terrible news.
Whilst I was there a guy just keeled over and died in the glass bar of the Paznauner Taja. The medical people worked on him for a long time but sadly to no avail.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My family are there at the moment. They say the guy was skiing a closed run with his family. Poor guy.
Sounds like there's shite loads of snow. Stay safe
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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espri, that's how I heard and read it. Sad, these accidents should underline just how dangerous the situation can be! The poor guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but no-one was to blame. I think we have all looked at the evidence of slides at the side of the piste and wondered what if!
The other thing that amazed me reading the news yesterday was the long list of avalanches triggered/going off in off-piste areas, catching people ignoring the warnings. All nationalities mentioned, so no dig at any one group. But I do wonder at the mentality that ignores obvious dangers and goes off-piste because "it's my holiday and I have a right to ski where I want because I've paid for a ski pass". They never stop to think about others, either their families or the people who have to come out and find them often risking their own lives to do it. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Now I know why the 7 and 7a were both closed the week I was in Ischgl on 7th-14th Jan when there was all that snow.
I hadn't realised that those runs were avalanche prone, being relatively low down in comparison to other runs. Very sad
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue, Would you rather have an outright off-piste ban? Or pay for the policing to keep people out. Sad but their own choices.
I've got to admit I've skied on some slopes with glide cracks this season, treated them fairly cautiously, given the cracks a wide berth and tried not to hang around beneath them, and certainly not tried to be anywhere near obvious convex rolls and steep pitches associated with them. The really conservative view would be to totally avoid those slopes for the season but I wonder what the view is on whether that's overkill.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fatbob, I don't claim to know much about this subject, but surely skiing on anything with glide cracks is asking for trouble? 
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fatbob, of course not, but knobheads who think they are entitled to do what they want despite all the clear warnings should not be pitied. The papers here are full of reports of accidents caused by people going off piste despite all the notices, flashing lights and closure notices. They set off avalanches and expect to be rescued, thus stretching already overloaded resources. The Bergwacht, like the Mountain Rescue in the UK are volunteers and they have more than enough to do without looking for idiots.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Samerberg Sue, Agree with all of that but unfortunately there isn't an easy way of filtering those who are going to be responsible from those who are just reckless/uneducated.
Schuss in Boots, AIUI Glide cracks don't really rely on skier loading to trigger slides - they can let go at any time as the bond with the ground below gives up. In that respect they are like Seracs but it's an accepted risk in the glacier travel world that an icefall might happen so good protocol is not to hang about when exposed, it doesn't stop glacier travel completely But I'm not an expert so would appreciate education from any glaciologists etc.
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Much of the avalanche risk earlier this week in Austria related to heavy snow and wind loading on top of an unstable layer from the extreme cold. This is what sent the avalanche risk up to 4. It was predictable that this would lead to a substantial increase in the risk of human activity triggering avalanches. The longer term problem this season of unpredictable release of full depth slides is separate. I haven't seen anything yet on what the nature of the Ischgl avalanche was.
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Very sad.
I was skiing in Ischgl that day. Weather was not good, heavy snow falling and windy. All the higher lifts were off. There are two entry points onto run 7. The higher entry was closed all day. The lower entry, off the B1 chair, was open in the morning. I was wanting to go down 7 but when I got to entry point at 12.00, the lift attendant was in the process of closing the run. It remained closed for the rest of the day. The only other way to get on to 7 was via 4a, a ski route off run 4 (closed all day), or off piste. The accident was reported to have happened at 2.00pm.
The lower part of the run (7a) remained closed on Thursday & Friday, though you could see where snow had slid onto piste from the bottom of F1 chair.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sat 18-02-12 16:51; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In 1987. 7 German Ski Teachers from Munich were killed in an Avalanche (which they triggered). It swept down right over an open piste in Ischgl.
I voluntered with the search for the victims. They were buried under 20metres of snow, not a pretty sight when we finally recovered the body's & limbs.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Here's a piece on the avalanche from Lawinenwarndienst Tirol.
Avalanche on piste in Ischgl
- the piste was open.
- the avalanche was caused by windloading near the ridge which caused a spontaneous release above the piste.
- the actual amount of fresh snow at the time of the avalanche was small.
- but cold loose snow built up along the avalanche path.
If you look at the photo, the avalanche path is marked in red/pink from the ridge above (left on the photo) to the piste below (centre of the photo).
Loose snow avalanche.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Accident happened about 11.55am. Therefore the closing of the piste that I saw appears to be in response to the accident and the piste was open at the time. I am just thankful now that I decided to have one more run before heading for Piste 7. If I hadn't I would have been pretty close to incident.
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Looking at the photo, this avalanche is only a couple of hundred metres further down Velliltal than the on-piste avalanche I saw when there 2 years ago. Since then, I've always been a bit more conscious of the risk from the right hand side when skiing 7/7a, and keep half an eye on what's going on to the right of the piste. I find it slightly puzzling that there are no avalanche fences / barriers on the right hand side of Velliltal. The photo shows a lot on the left, and most of the rest of Ischgl seems extensively protected by them, so it seems odd that they don't have them on a face above a piste that has avalanched before.
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You know it makes sense.
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Julian T,
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I find it slightly puzzling that there are no avalanche fences / barriers on the right hand side of Velliltal. The photo shows a lot on the left, and most of the rest of Ischgl seems extensively protected by them, so it seems odd that they don't have them on a face above a piste that has avalanched before.
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I am just back from Ischgl and there was a massive full thickness avalanche from the right above 7 however the resort had built a bit of a snow wall next to the piste and thre is a flattening out before the piste and inspite of the size of the avalanche none of it actually crossed the piste.
I have a picture if I can work out how to upload it .
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FAQ
Sorry that your post is on such a sad subject, but that's very interesting information. Excellent first post. 
