 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been trying to recommend a couple of resorts to some friends, some who will be trying skiing for the first time and some who have a few weeks under their belts. One has got particulary hung up on quoted Km's of piste for every resort. For me it's not really something I've looked at for a long time rather rating somewhere on the availibility of the off piste and the on piste to me is more about quality than quantity-I'd take a smaller well laid out resort with good lifts over a dis-jointed mega resort.
So with several 'mega' linked resorts availible what is big enough for a weeks holiday? I was in La Plangne with a group of intermediates in January, an away day in Les Arc was nice for them but pretty time consuming and in no way can you make use of that number of psites in a week. Other linked resorts have more +'s as you can get those that have higher altitude areas which can be worth having.[/i]
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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many of the smaller resorts can be just as good if not better than the monsters, it is all about the quality and the people you are with
i bet the person concerned is the kind of person who gets back to the chalet at night and ticks off every run they have done on the piste map..... been unfortunate enough to share a chalet with one of these nerds before.....
just go skiing!!! and enjoy it!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've never considered km of piste when choosing a resort personally. I'd look at the actual size of the resort, I wouldn't want to be skiing the same 10 pistes day in day out, but in reality I don't make a point of skiing every run in a resort deliberately. Look for a resort that covers all the bases of what you want out of your holiday, some are more geared for experienced skiers, others for beginners, others for those who enjoy the apres, many cover all of these. Don't get too hung up on km of piste, some resorts are small, others huge but there are a lot of other factors, some of which you mentioned yourself!
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My personal rule of thumb for a group of 'crossing the pistes off the map' intermediates (own up, you all do it really), is 150km.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I love skiing lots of different runs so personally, I wouldn't really go anywhere with less than 130-150km of piste.
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I've found that our group tends to find half a dozen - sometimes fewer - runs that we really enjoy and do them lots! More important to me is the quality of the piste management in prevailing conditions ( a fairly bleak week in Bulgaria where the pistes were brown, bare or icy, whilst the sides had tons of snow, springs to mind), good lift system, and fun terrain. Consequently, we're more likely to buy a 'local' pass rather than a full area pass which we're unlikely to do justice to
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I do look at the total K's but also i really study the maps so i can plan day trips to nearby villages.
I like the big resorts as this more practical.
For example, last year we stayed in Belle plane and one day it would be a ski down to Montchavin for lunch and the next it would be montalbert.
There is nothing worse than doing the same stuff day in day out.
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| Quote: |
There is nothing worse than doing the same stuff day in day out.
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Oh yes there is: it is not skiing at all.
Instead of looking at the km of piste look at the piste map and check the number of runs you would actually like to do, where they go and how varied they are.
John
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It also depends on where the pistes go in relation to each other. Two runs next to each other with a small gap between them (that will get flattened by the people popping between the pistes) counts double in the resort stats but is really the same run.
I am one of those "nerds" who likes to ski to the edge of the map (which isn't always the furthest point). It is no different to planning to go to a particular restaurant or village for each day. However, I'll also spend a day on the same piste trying a few tricks, new ideas etc.
I agree that the Paradiski area is very big and there is enough skiing on both sides of the link cable car to keep you happy. That's why they offer the discovery pass - to allow you to have one day on the opposite side of the area or the unlimited pass. It also depends on how close you are to the link lift. However, Obergurgl/Hochgurgl needs to be linked and the link lift is pretty fast and short.
Back on topic - I feel happy with 100km. But then I'm a nerd 
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| Tiger2 wrote: |
| It also depends on where the pistes go in relation to each other. Two runs next to each other with a small gap between them (that will get flattened by the people popping between the pistes) counts double in the resort stats but is really the same run. |
^ this.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I agree with Jakejenks, and would add...
If you're skiing for the first time, I think it's crazy to go for one of the big resorts. For a start, the smaller ones are usually cheaper, less crowded, less intimidating and overall an easier experience for a beginner. The main things you need as a beginner are
- decent nursery slopes, preferably at least part of the day in the sun and at an alitutude where you'd expect there to be snow (ie not below a low village)
- beginner slopes that are easily accessed from the rest of the ski area and near a restaurant or two where you can meet up for lunch with non-beginners
- plenty of blues and reds for them to progress to
- about 50km is enough. Going up and down same slopes gets beginners comfortable and confident - going every day on a new piste is overrated at this stage
- a resort that's pleasant and convenient enough that the overall ski experience will be as fun as the skiing itself
- pref some runs in trees - beginners progressing to intermediates seem to love this
My ideal beginner resort is Anzere, which has about 60km of slopes, mostly red and blue (and even the black is do-able for most after a week), a car-free village centre, the lift a 5min walk away from most accommodation (or ski in ski out for the buildings right by the telecab), beginner slopes at the top of the mountain in a bowl (at about 2,300m); situation on a plateau with a spectacular view over the Valaisan Alps - especially good for midwinter when some valley resorts are 'dark'. (It's opposite Nendaz, the other way up from Sion). Even though it's Switzerland, it's cheap, as mostly self-catering.
Many disregard this place because a) there are a lot of t-bars, which actually I think are great for beginners - the more time standing on your skis the better! and b) it's mainly south-facing and the km-age of piste is low. Which is great for people who know it because it's rarely crowded, and you get fresh tracks whenever it snows!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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...is this the same mentality which compels some to attempt to visit all the undergrounds stations in london in one day, or circumnavigate the M25 on a Sunday morning, then go the other direction next week?
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Richard_Sideways, not at all ... just the opposite of traipsing round a 350km ski factory, spending half the day traversing or looking at the piste map.
Btw on the PSB a couple of weeks ago we were limited in Tignes to skiing a lot of the same runs - Grande Motte was all that was open - most people seemed pretty happy with it and I didn't hear too much whingeing...
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't "tick off" pistes, whatever paulio says (we don't all have to do what paulio says  ). In fact, having skied in the same area with 185kms of piste for coming up 10 winters, I'm not sure I've skied them all. Honestly. Some I've skied, but wouldn't bother with again because there are more interesting ways of getting to the same point. For me, having somewhere to go - a different valley, different aspects, different spots for a vin chaud or lunch, is much more important than the kms of piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Funniest one I had was a client who came stayed, who was a self confessed "ski god".........at tea the 1st day he started to whinge about how small the resort was (after all there's only 265km) so showing an interest I sat down with him with the piste map to see how he'd managed it as I knew how long he'd been out and where he'd gone for lunch. Plus it's one of those challenges the residents often set ourselves to do and had completed it but it was a fairly full on day.
Anyway as we're sitting there I asked what was this run like? his reply - ah that's a black, don't do blacks....... so scrub off 11%....... I then asked what was this read like....... his reply; "ah that's a red.. I don't really do reds" whoops cross off an additional 34% of runs... still he's got 55% of the resort to play with........ so asked after a blue over the furthest side of the resort.. his reply "ah I didn't want to go to that part"... Whoops scrub another 27%.... so in effect he was complaining that the 27% of the resort he would consider skiing was small........ but it gets worse....... of course he never does greens after all he is a ski god!.... you can guess what went in our "guests notes"!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
There is nothing worse than doing the same stuff day in day out.
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Oh yes there is: it is not skiing at all.
Instead of looking at the km of piste look at the piste map and check the number of runs you would actually like to do, where they go and how varied they are.
John |
I'm amazed if you can work that out from a piste map! It can be quite hard to know whether some pistes go up or down from a piste map, let alone work out whether they go up or down.
A favourite piste on Monday may not be favourite by Wednesday if it has been snowed/pisted/whatever.
Miles of pistes isn't that relevant if they're all parallel. There are what, 25-30 pistes that go down in the Bowl at ADH. I don't think they count for more than a small handful of pistes, honestly as they all run parallel to each other. There's more to skiing than the piste, it's the whole being out in the mountains in a variety of areas. (Ideally not feeling as though it's a school playground at a school with 10,000 pupils...)
And then there are some resorts which only have a handful of pistes measured relative to their "size" measured in km e.g. Chamonix which will keep the best of skiers amused for a whole season, let alone a week.
Personally I like 150+ kms, and try to get to all the corners and use all the lifts. I don't tick them off on the map though, and I'm not obsessive about it, but if you don't then you might not find the quiet secret corners.
Some beginners won't get beyond the free lifts in their first (or even second (or even third)) week.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 13-12-11 12:03; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Zero.
Ask La Grave if the locals get bored.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Grizwald wrote: |
| recommend a couple of resorts to some friends, some who will be trying skiing for the first time and some who have a few weeks under their belts. One has got particulary hung up on quoted Km's of piste for every resort |
| fatbob wrote: |
Zero.
Ask La Grave if the locals get bored. |
I think that silencing a newbie by taking them to La Grave is a little mean.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Serriadh, I was answering the headline question. More seriously a newbie doesn't need any kms of piste. People learnt in the 50s and 60s without the benefit of piste bashers. If a uniform surface is desirable then a few hundred metres is more than enough to get basic skills locked down.
Stop the brutal grooming!
My personal view on "commuter" resorts is that I spend enough time on commuting, I don't need to do it on skis. It's astounding how dull some of the many many km quoted for bigger resorts are.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Serriadh, yes OK, but the OP isn't a newbie and fatbob did answer the question. The answer to the question is zero. Keen tourers would say you don't need any lifts either (but I'm not a real tourer).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
People learnt in the 50s and 60s without the benefit of piste bashers.
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I learnt initially in Norway in 1962 but I don't think we were on unpisted/natural terrain. I suspect something was done - certainly it wasn't difficult, even on those huge long skis, and I'm sure we'd have struggled on "off piste" especially as it was warm and sunny and had been for some weeks.
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Given where I'm based, it's obviously a relevant discussion to me!
I live in a resort with 4 lifts. I've been here 5 seasons. I haven't done everything the resort has to offer yet and I love every minute of it every single time I go up. Even before I moved out here, most of my more recent trips were to smaller places - the likes of Areches-Beaufort, Fernie, Stuben and the other St Anton outliers, etc.
I've got to admit, I really don't get the piste-ticking mentality. It's never something I've been interested in. Honestly and genuinely, if a resort had only one lift and one run, but that run was fantastic, then I could have a great week.
Varying your runs is about YOU, not the terrain - off piste lines, freestyle, working on skills, whatever. After all, there comes a time when, once you've seen one blue run, you've seen them all. I personally really don't like some of the mega-resorts - half the runs are dull, dull, dull, only there to get you from one place to another. Way too much traversing and flat sections. Then add in the crowds and the inevitably poor piste condtions due to excessive traffic - no, small resort every time!
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| Quote: |
Varying your runs is about YOU, not the terrain - off piste lines, freestyle, working on skills, whatever.
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+1, though my range of activities is smaller. And I like Areches-Beaufort too - and I haven't even skied all the pistes there, though it's very small. I must have done 10 - 12 days in Les Contamines and not skied all the runs there, either.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stevomcd, +1 to all of that. I'll trade 10km of motorway piste for 1km of something interesting. Hell, give me a nice powder bowl or tree run to session and I'll be happy all day. All my personal favourites mountains are small ski area resorts, but which offer a varity of terrain.
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stevomcd, +1 from me
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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James the Last, completely agree. I look forward to the day that piste maps are all in proportion and show the gradient and roll of every piste. Just isn't going to happen though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just for the sake of it, I'm going to try and tick off all pistes in 3V, see how long it takes, 660km I reckon. Over/under on how long it will take me?
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These days I'm happy spending several weeks at a time at Nordkette - which has one blue piste and one black, and I barely ski them anyway. Less pistes means more of the real mountain is left to explore. In the past I used to spend a week in Westendorf a year with family and friends - which included some very good skiers. Even though the SkiWelt is pretty massive, we almost exclusively stayed in Westendorf, which is what 50k of pistes? Even now, when I ski a lot more than in those days, I'm happy to spend a week exclusively in Westendorf, I don't mind skiing the same runs there over and over - even not counting the offpiste - as there are some brilliant runs with lots of bumps and ridges to jump off, sections off the side through the trees, etc.
| Quote: |
Varying your runs is about YOU, not the terrain - off piste lines, freestyle, working on skills, whatever. After all, there comes a time when, once you've seen one blue run, you've seen them all. I personally really don't like some of the mega-resorts - half the runs are dull, dull, dull, only there to get you from one place to another.
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+1
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You know it makes sense.
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stevomcd, +1. I find amount of vertical on offer more useful metric than kms of piste. i do my best to stay off the piste most the time. I can have a great days skiing (just add powder) using just one lift or even no lift if I ski tour up. Where I'm based there's a decent amount of linked skiing which is nice but the pass covers 25+ different resorts, it's really nice to drive 30mins to a different ski area, meet a different crowd, ski different terrain. A different experience to the ski-in-out mega resort thing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Jakejenks, Well next year maybe you should try the salzburg super pass, gives access to 2500km of piste.http://www.salzburgerland.com/ski-board/super-ski-card/salzburg-super-ski-card.html?sprachen_id=2. You'd need a car to get around.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| For me, having somewhere to go - a different valley, different aspects, different spots for a vin chaud or lunch, is much more important than the kms of piste. |
Yep. And the overall total piste mileage is a reasonable indicator of that.
Also, everyone saying 'one lift and 4kms is enough' is of the 'very very very good, mostly off piste, skier' variety. Not at all comparable with the skier types mentioned in the OP.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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waynos, ha, that sounds brilliant, I'll try get a group of skiers together for that
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, I thought the same as Paulio - I need lifts and pistes unfortunately as I'm just not a good enough skier to go off touring or even straying too far into lift accessible off piste without my instructor.
We are part of a 100km area that is also part of a 445km area. I advise people to wait until they get here to decide what passes they want. The 100km pass is only €24 (it's €13.50 this Saturday  ) so you can get a feel for the area and then see how many days of the larger pass you think you'll need... in the vast majority of cases, people find they're very happy with the empty pistes and off piste on the 100km side and only extend for a day or two max.
Having said that, some people really do like to rack up the miles - we get groups coming here who ski the whole of the Evasion, La Clusaz and The Espace Diamant in a week. Personally, I also like to stop for the odd vin chaud and take in the surroundings rather than lunching on energy bars and bombing around, but if that's what some people enjoy, why not? I've certainly been on ski trips in the past where I've wanted to ski every different piste on the sizeable map and have enjoyed doing so, just as I can enjoy doing variations of my favorite runs time and again.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I actually love having lots of different places to go and check out, kind of like going on a bit of an adventure - popping into a different country for lunch and things like that. But it needs to be a well connected resort with plent of options to get about, not one that is linked witb a singly lift/slope. I love Avoriaz for that, you can check out lots of different areas without getting stuck on a long commuter link.
Went to Les Carroz in the Grand Massif last NY and I really didn't like it. Snow was poor so had to head over the Flaine which is accesable by long and rubbish, boring and busy commuter treck which is not boarder friendly. That resort felt like we spent the whole time getting over to Flaine to do a few runs only to start the commute home!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stevomcd and Richard_Sideways: Bang on, could not agree more. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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As a general rule, we look for resorts with a minimum of 150 KM of piste
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With regard to the near beginners as well, if you find a resort with say 100km of piste, and 50km of them are red or black, that's instantly a 50km resort assuming that the remainder is all linked together. Whereas an advanced on-piste skier can look at a 75km resort, know that they can ski literally every run, and it's effectively bigger.
So I think there's a genuine (negative) correlation between experience and kms required. With the exception of absolute beginners who tend to stay on the same bunny run or two for the whole week.
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50km such as Courmayeur is probably about the minimum. Courmayeur is nice in that the terrain is very varied, so even by skiing the same pistes every day, you get plenty of variety. 200km of identical pistes would be far more dull.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like the verticle drop measurement, it's easy to keep track of and just mark of the pistes completed on the next lift.
I am not really into the sheer number, and have not been to any resort and done all the runs but some runs quite a few times, especially the ones that scared me the first time.
As mentioned earlier, conditions and weather can change a run completely,
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| paulio wrote: |
| With regard to the near beginners as well, if you find a resort with say 100km of piste, and 50km of them are red or black, that's instantly a 50km resort assuming that the remainder is all linked together. Whereas an advanced on-piste skier can look at a 75km resort, know that they can ski literally every run, and it's effectively bigger. |
Or, they know that they can ski literally every run, but really aren't going to touch the 25km of nearly flat greens, and so that's instantly a 25km resort...
If I might draw some conclusions from the above posts:
1. Complete beginner: needs about 1km of pistes.
2. Intermediate: 150km
3. Somebody with notebook and pencil: up to 2,500km
4. Amazing skier: 0km. Doesn't even need a resort...
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FAQ
