 Poster: A snowHead
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We're off to Flachau in Austria in a weeks time and the forecasted temperatures are very low. -11 being the warmest, we may even get some snow!
Normally, when ski-ing we'd park the car in an underground or multi-story car park. This time we're parking outside for the week.
We're taking, what I'd consider to be, some 'normal' winter car preparation steps, but with temps being so low and having a diesel, I thought I’d ask for some advice.
So far:-
Anti freeze has been checked.
Washer bottle fluid will be ultra strong
Silicone applied to the door seals
Added:-
Winter tyres (they are already on the vehicle and I had forgotten!)
Diesel additive
Lift wipers off window.
We'd rather not come back to a 'sick' vehicle.
So, has anyone any advice regarding additional car preparation for our diesel car being left out in temps as low as -20 deg C?
Thanks
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 30-01-12 8:22; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hells Bells is the expert on this, having had it happen to her car. I'd say - buy a wee bottle of special low temp diesel additive (Halfrauds or similar) AND fill your tank somewhere as close as possible - for example Albertville, where the fuel will be good to minus 15. And use the additive. I've had a bottle of that additive in my tool box for so long it's probably out of date, but our car will be under cover, where the temperatures are less low.
And if you can pay extra for an indoor parking space, I'd do it.
These are just my precautionary measures - some dieselheads might be along soon with some more technical info.
We did have a problem starting the van we'd bought full of flatpacks when we first bought the flat. We had to leave it in the sun with the bonnet up for an hour or so - it just refused to start when it was really cold. If it hadn't been a sunny morning....  our departure would have been even longer delayed.
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cran
cran
Guest
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Mine was ok last year in Austria at -20 with no special prep other than a normal service and I didn't silicone the door seals... they still opened ok.
Get winter tyres
flip the wipers up when you park so they don't freeze to the window
let the glow plugs heat up when starting (orange coil light thing goes out)
clean snow off the roof before driving (unless you want it sliding down your windscreen and blocking your view when you brake into a hairpin)
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pam w, cran, Thanks, advice noted.
I do so hope to be clearing the 1 m of fresh snow off the car on the Saturday we are returning home!  ( I can dream)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One to add; make sure your battery is in good shape!!
When starting if it's really cold you might need to heat your glow plugs a couple of times before you actually try to start the car.
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Unless nearly new buy a new battery and some jump leads rated for the size of engine.
Do not risk a 3 year old battery 
Plus check upgrade your Breakdown insurance to cover vehicle re-patriation. (Unless you can hang around in Austria whilst it is repaired)
If possible do not park the car in the shade / frost pocket, find somewhere thats in full sunshine (assuming low temp = clear sky). If it does snow clear the snow off of the car remembering not to pile the snow from the car in front of it!
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FraserP, you do not need to put in any diesel additives, that is taken care of by the refinaries providing the petrol stations in Germany and Austria. I have had all my diesel cars standing in the cold each winter for the past 20+ years and never had a problem. As we do not have gadzillions of diesel vehicles stuck with frozen fuel each winter, I'm assuming they do know what they are doing! Nor have I ever had to apply silicon to any of the door seals nor does my garage do that when carrying out the winter check/preparation on my car.
marcellus makes a really good point about the battery. Make sure that the battery is really in good nick or replace it. Mine is currently at least 7 years old but it is checked at every service and also when they change my summer tyres over to winter ones. So far so good for me, but a new one is on the cards soon I am sure.
It may be a good idea to get some door key de-icer if it is very cold as the locks do freeze. I keep a small spray in my coat/house in case I need it, but so far never have had to use it in anger. You can buy these at any service station on your way down.
A frost protection blanket/foil thingy for your windscreen saves you from having to spray or scrape the windscreen. A long handled soft broom is your best friend for clearing the snow off the car. It is illegal to drive with a roof covered in snow as well as rather embarressing when it all slides down over your windscreen at the most inopportune moment Raising the front and rear wipers just stops any accidental damage to the rubber should they freeze to the screen. I used to leave the car in gear with the handbrake off, but my garage has told me that this is no longer necessary, so this winter I have not bothered and nothing bad has happened yet.
The parking area you will be using is unfortunately in shadow most of the day but it is not a particular cold sink spot. If you are worried, then move the car to the car park opposite during the day and it will get the sun. You cannot park in the car park overnight though if I remember correctly. But by moving the car back and forth between the car park and the parking space behind the appartments you are actually getting the car moving which may not be a bad idea if you are nervous about leaving it unused for a week.
I carry all my winter stuff in a smallish collapsable plastic box kept in my boot. I have plenty of screen wash (down to -30°C works most of the time, but I have some -60°C stuff in there as well). Also in the box I have my chains, jump leads, a bag of salted grit, my snow brush and scraper, some de-icer windscreen spray for really hard ice patches on the windows, a piece of iso-mat to kneel on when I put the chains on and heavy-duty rubberised work gloves for the chains. My roof snow broom was bought many many moons ago at Halfords by the way.
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Consider using a good synthetic oil in your engine. This will make the engine easier to turnover in extreme cold. Natural oil increases viscosity dramatically at very cold temps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman, Is that why, I thought it was reccomended for my German truck 'cos it's bl00dy expensive
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| Quote: |
some jump leads rated for the size of engine
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good point. We had jump leads we'd had for years, and they showed distinct signs of melting when we needed them to start the diesel. We now have the right ones, much chunkier.
I had big problems with my handbrake a couple of years ago, when it was cold. had no idea what was happening (bad noise, etc etc) but fortunately the garage was on my route home. They sorted it out, de-iced it (had to leave it overnight as it was about 5.30 pm when I stopped) and read me the riot act - told me not to use the handbrake in those conditions (cold, lots of snow around). It probably depends on what kind of handbrake you have; mine is a primitive one, I think.
The garages in places like Albertville specifically say the fuel is good to minus 15. If the temperatures currently forecast come true, it'll be significantly colder than we've encountered in the last 9 seasons.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Samerberg Sue, Thanks for the 'local' advice re parking. I also wasn't sure about the diesel situation. The first time I went to the Alps my cars door seal on my Peugeot froze to the frame and they split, so I think we'll still have a go with the silicone. Lock de-icer will now be on the shopping list.
We'll also be using the -40 deg screen wash, and the ubiquitous bag of tools, chains, glove and mat should also be in there somewhere.
We may well take a day out of Flachau, so we may be using the car mid week, that may help. It all depends on how we get on.
Thanks again.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 30-01-12 19:54; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FraserP, How did you manage last year in Blighty, if you were OK then I am sure you will be OK in Austria.
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Kel, I think the weather out there will be a little more severe that we experienced in the UK last year. I know the uk almost stopped in Dec but that was more down down to a lack of planning and prep.
I've driven to the alps in all weathers from glorious sunshine through to deep snow and blizzard conditions where chains we 'really' required. The difference this time is that the car will be left outside in very cold temps for the whole week. I think we have it covered but, for the sake of asking some advice, I didn't want us to become a breakdown!
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You know it makes sense.
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| FraserP wrote: |
Kel, I think the weather out there will be a little more severe that we experienced in the UK last year. I know the uk almost stopped in Dec but that was more down down to a lack of planning and prep.
I've driven to the alps in all weathers from glorious sunshine through to deep snow and blizzard conditions where chains we 'really' required. The difference this time is that the car will be left outside in very cold temps for the whole week. I think we have it covered but, for the sake of asking some advice, I didn't want us to become a breakdown! |
I know, but my temp gauge registered -25 one day last year and it isn't going to get much worse than that.
Best thing I ever used was the heated screen on a Mondeo in freezing fog, works a treat.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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the French Total website says:
Les gazoles sont généralement formulés pour répondre à des conditions hivernales moyennes.
Total va plus loin en adaptant la formulation de TOTAL EXCELLIUM Diesel pour les régions les plus froides**. Avec une température de filtrabilité (TLF) de -20° C*, TOTAL EXCELLIUM Diesel vous permet de mieux démarrer.
As far as the two asterisks are concerned, the footnote says:
*-20°C est la température limite de filtrabilité du gazole et non la température ambiante ; elle fait référence à une mesure normalisée en laboratoire caractérisant la résistance au froid.
I don't know what the significance of that footnote is - in terms of what would happen out on a cold mountainside, rather than in a lab. Quite a lot of places are forecast to have minus 30 (before windchill) on Friday night - fortunately cars can't experience wind chill.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I always carry a shovel and an old blanket in the car in the winter too. Nothing to do with diesel, just useful for digging out if need be, and the blanket has a dual purpose - extra traction if I should need it to get going and extra warmth in the event of breaking down
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
extra traction if I should need it to get going and extra warmth in the event of breaking down
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hopefully you wouldn't need it for the latter soon after using it for the former. 
Here, in winter, we don't go out in the car without full winter gear, even if we don't expect to need it. At home in the UK we have a bag of tatty old gloves, hats, gilets etc.
When I was googling for French diesel problems I came across a story of hundreds of diesel cars having broken down in a cold spell in 2009, and its being blamed on poorly prepared fuel. That was in central France, where perhaps the diesel wasn't as well adapted for cold weather as it would be in the Alps.
My father used to work for the AA and after a spate of breakdowns due to damp electrics one day he went on the local evening TV with all kinds of advice about how to avoid it. (Not that he was a technical person, he was a manager, so I don't know why they didn't ask one of the experts). My mother was shouting at the TV "WD40" - which he didn't mention. On the way home he had problems and he had to get her to drive out to meet him - and she took a can of WD40 to spray on the distributor etc.
She didn't let him forget that for a long time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^ think its been said earlier, but keeping the diesel topped up as much as you can will help, and let it heat before turning over (also mentioned above), and you should not have a problem. I've manged down to -20 a few times just with those two things "prepped" when I knew the cold was coming, was pretty confident in the way the car started too that it could go colder.
not sure i got it from the posts, but if you're dumping your car in resort for the entire week without using it, then maybe I would start it up and let it come up to some kind of temp every day or couple of days, will get the oil up and around the engine etc and protect your battery
silicone on the door seals seems a bit OTT to me
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| barry wrote: |
| silicone on the door seals seems a bit OTT to me |
Wish I could find my silicone! Have a van and the side sliding doors freeze up frequently, more so on damp days (when it's snowing for instance) and overnight the door seal freezes up. The main doors aren't a problem, less surface area of seal to freeze and more direct pulling action to open.
As for cold starts, I've had a few already where the diesel needed a few goes. I have googled today that cycling the glow plugs a couple of times before cranking can help and keep cranking for 10-15seconds or until it jumps into life. Windscreen wash - I use neat -40 stuff, if in Austria pop into a Hofer shop (same as Aldi in UK) and they do large containers for 5euros, way cheaper than petrol stations.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| waynos wrote: |
| if in Austria pop into a Hofer shop (same as Aldi in UK) and they do large containers for 5euros |
It must be on special Hofer.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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silicone on sliding doors - that makes more sense, not much "outward" range of motion to tug to break the initial freeze.
should have said earlier too - if snow covered then be sure to clear snow from air intakes/front grille (and from around the exhaust so there's somewhere to vent), and some cars will benefit from a blanky over the front grille (still with some open area), though thats more for once your moving and the cold air passes through i woulda thunk (?). I see plenty of farmers with em on their landies at any rate (you going on hols or an expedition?  )
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Just thought of something else; Windscreen wash..... the decent stuff not the stuff they sell in the UK........... to cope with a) the cold temperatures when parked and b) to cope with the even colder wind chill of when using it and driving try and get the stuff that goes down to minus 20/30!!
And buy lots of it!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| marcellus wrote: |
Just thought of something else; Windscreen wash..... the decent stuff not the stuff they sell in the UK........... to cope with a) the cold temperatures when parked and b) to cope with the even colder wind chill of when using it and driving try and get the stuff that goes down to minus 20/30!!
And buy lots of it!! |
Do not buy it over in the Alps. Its a bloody fortune, i paid 17 euros for a 5 litre tub!!! Get some over here in the UK. We sell this stuff in work and ive used it myself here in the UK. Scotland last year, it was down to -20 and had no issues with it at all.
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As I said on another thread, the Norwegians recommend keeping some emergency food in the car. They recommend dog food because it's highly nutritious but your not going to eat it unless you really, really need to 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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^ Norwegians eat reindeer moss (which aint half as appetising as the name suggests  ), so i think their palate may be a bit more suited to some winalot action
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would just like to add to the thread , that a group of us hired 4 cars in Italy staying in the Monterosa ski area. I assumed like Austria that additive was already in the diesel, apparently not as the diesel froze in three of the cars (the 4th car was parked in the basement) . The temperature went to minus 30 at night so it was no surprise really. You can buy additive in all the local garages and it's not that expensive.
Forewarned is forearmed!
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| barry wrote: |
| some cars will benefit from a blanky over the front grille (still with some open area), though thats more for once your moving and the cold air passes through i woulda thunk (?). I see plenty of farmers with em on their landies at any rate (you going on hols or an expedition? ) |
Old Land Rovers are seriously over cooled, they were designed for one specification to be used anywhere in the World, so the cooling will be OK in the tropics or a desert, but use them in the cold and they don't really get hot enough. A Radiator Muff is good for adjusting the air flow into the radiator, plus it's great for keeping muddy water from clogging the radiator when wading.
Best advise for diesel engines in the cold has already been said, make sure the battery is in good shape and keep the fuel tank topped up with low temperature diesel to avoid condensation in the tank.
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You know it makes sense.
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We only had problems with ours because we had filled up with diesel in Turin after a trip to Ikea. None of the diesel we have used since has caused us problems and it has on occasions got down to almost as low as Christmas/NY 2005/2006.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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hee hee, Radiator Muff, tee hee hee
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Poster: A snowHead
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| marcellus wrote: |
Just thought of something else; Windscreen wash..... the decent stuff not the stuff they sell in the UK........... to cope with a) the cold temperatures when parked and b) to cope with the even colder wind chill of when using it and driving try and get the stuff that goes down to minus 20/30!!
And buy lots of it!! |
Thanks, but already covered I bought several 5 litres of -40 Deg washer fluid from Lidls @ i think £6 each. I think it will be usefull.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FraserP, What does it taste like?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Is there much of a freezing difference with a Petrol car to a diesel, travelling to the Aosta Valley in a couple of weeks. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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apart from -60 level screen wash..which you can dilute down to -30c -10c 0c levels i don't do anything to the car.the screen wash you can buy at pretty muchany petrol station in germany or austria..the only really usefull thing is a brush to get snow off quickly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
Do not buy it (screenwash) over in the Alps. Its a bloody fortune, i paid 17 euros for a 5 litre tub!!! |
Must have been in a resort in France. In Austria, it's widely on sale for €6 for 5 litres: saw it at that price both in the local budget supermarket and the village garage.
UK costco have some on sale at the moment: it's only(!) rated to -23C, but it is only ~£3.50 for 5 litres.
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Ricklovesthepowder, you was robbed. I buy it in the Alps at the supermarket, no where near that much.
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Simon94, Nope, less worry about petrol freezing but the same applies to batteries which do not like the cold!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Ricklovesthepowder, you was robbed. I buy it in the Alps at the supermarket, no where near that much. |
+1.. 5Litres in Super U for €3.
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Just join the OAMTC and get them to come fix it.
Much easier.
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FAQ
