 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm going to chop in my old burton missions, since changing boots the don't seem to fit that well.
Boots are Salomon f22s board Rome Anthem, never go in the park it's all about the carve and off piste for me.
Under consideration: Salomon - Caliber and chief. Union - Force, Asadachi or maybe SL.
For some reason I'm leaning towards Union Forces. Anyone tried them, or got any opinions?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've seen quite a few Unions with broken/cracked heel-cups, which would put me off, but no experience personally. Always stuck with Burton - work for me!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Your riding is pretty much the same as mine, I tried my mates forces, then got some Rome Targas which were nice adjustable bindings, but not quite right. In the end I settled for some 2012 Burton cartels, and combined with my 2011 Salomon synapses are the most comfy ride I've experienced. I used to suffer with sore feet but just been away with my new set up and rode hard for 3 days without any undue discomfort. The rest of my body is totally banjaxed but my feet were just peachy. Nice and responsive as well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've got Forces on one board and asadachi's (the old ones) on another. Really like them, not that stiff, but bomb proof and comfortable, with good adjustment options.
I've also got some flux titan's on another board, and whilst they're good, I prefer the more relaxed feel of the unions.
Also used to have salomon f24's, and had no issues using the union bindings with those.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I have Salomon F22's, and have been riding with Flow bindings. Just bought some Union SL's, at the recommendation of my local shop in Germany. They specialize in freeride guiding and trips, so based on what I've read and reviews, I think they will be a good choice. I'll find out on Sunday. Heading to the Arlberg for a week. I'll post how they ride.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think Unions always come in at the lower of the price range for that level of binding and therefore I think they are a cracking value binding (on the Forces myself).
Have heard tales of broken heelcups that stevomcd mentioned, but never happened to mine (4 years, including 1 season) and never seen it!
If I saw similar spec for cheaper that would sway me, I'm not a Union fanboy. Salomons are regarded as good quality and well built too!
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cheers chaps
hang11, is there much difference between the Forces and Asadachis? Asadachis worth the extra buck or two? I guess after my missions they'll feel quite a bit stiffer.
boofit, looking forward to hearing what you reckon to them.
manicpb, like you I'm not a fanboi (says he typing on his super slim aluminium 'fruity' keyboard), just Unions get mentioned a lot and I heard Salomon were quality and assumed they'd fit my boots really well.
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I don't think there's much difference at all, but I've got the older asadachis - basically just forces with wood print, and plusher materials on the straps - they look mean as on my Arbor board though.
Been looking at picking up a new board for next season here in NZ, and some new bindings, and the new Asadachi's look like they are a bit more different to the current Forces? I'll probably go for the Asadachis, if I can find some cheap.
I always buy my gear cheap out of the US end of season sales, and it's a PITA trying to get Union bindings at that time of year - usually all sold out, which tells you something about how popular they are.
Salomon boots are great, I picked up some Synapses cheap when I was in the UK last year, most comfortable boots I've ever owned, well made, easily stood up to a season of abuse. They are my third pair of salamons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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From the website the Asadachi has the same base plate as the force, but a different (stiffer?) highback from last years SL. Not sure the woodgrain will suit my Plain black(ish) Rome though 
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check out FLUX.
i ride Salomon boots (you cant beat them) and have been using next season's Burner, a Rossi OneMag and Jones Exp. - so fast, stiff riding on piste, and hitting the steeps offpiste. Never ride in the park.
stance is +/- 16 and have never had any issues with my feet / knees with this bindings / boots set up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well i bit the bullet and plumped for the Union Forces. I contacted Union, it seems the highback on the Asadachi is softer than that on the Force and i also saw the forces for sale at £135 inc p&p to ireland. Haven't got to try them out yet, I'm a couple of weeks away from my trip to Canada, but they seem fairly well made (certainly better than my Missions) and the fit to my boots is sooo much better. Highbacks seem really flexi in torsion, but quite stiff on the front/rear axis. Overall there seems to be a great improvement in comfort too, but that's just from strapping in and baouncing up and down the hall.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ok so have used the bindings for two weeks now.
They're more responsive than my missions and fit the boots so much better.
There are however some issues, which are primarily to do with 'keeping things tight'. The screws which hold the adjustable heelcup in place don't seem to be up to the job. The aluminium heelcup has no 'surface texturing' where the plastic baseplate tries to grip it, so inevitably slides out - happened three times to me. The ankle strap is supported by a plastic arm, which in turn is screwed into the base plate, when you move the strap (to clear the way for your foot to go in) it winds the screw out. This requires daily tightening. Also the 'tool free adjustment' of the ankle strap is acheived by using a screw with a big hand friendly plastic head to the screw. This fell out once, but was found by the next person off the lift - lucky!!
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Good to know - I've just ordered some Union Atlas bindings....think I'll pick up some thread lock from the hardware store....
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You know it makes sense.
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I have experienced exactly to the letter as Rogg also.
The little hand screw is not really a issue in my case though but I check it often .
They added little anti turn bumps to stop it loosening which seem to work it was much worse in older force models without .
The heelcup rearward movement is the main prob especially with lower boot size and secondly the constant loosening ankle strap bolt which is long and thin,it can shear with constant tightening as mine did.
The ankle strap bolt will tighten only so far having a shoulder so a diy fix is needed like a touch of pivot lube and 3m blue thread lock .
Overall why the Union buttheads never upgraded the force models hiccups is a real pain as its great to ride as far as flex goes.
They were selling so many so did,nt care maybe waiting on the new designs.
These been the new more expensive 2012 stage 3 basrplate, improved internal strap,highback adjuster changes to be released but not on the force?
All it got was a toe cap over 7years .
Florian Orley won in FWT norway on the 12 orange forces he tends towards bigger longer sticks as well so shows lots stress is put through them in use though.
I have watched the force models upgrade progress or lack of it, since about 2006 when they were really just drakes with single spring ratchets.
Everyone else had better ratchets but unionforces had comfort and usable flex everywhere.
I think the force durable highback and its high mounting point is the best feature in practice as its very comfortable for a wide range of riding.
The highback adjuster is overkill now its better on the newer stage 3 stuff exactly like salomons since 2007.
The Force could have been made into the best binding going but they never did it.
Only a little upgrading was needed but they are pushing towards you buying the newer more expensive stage 3 models.
These faults will do that or diy them.
Besides roggs mentioned faults!
Later with more use certain areas on the forces padded ankle strap, material durability starts to show up.
Its really a weak low use part not up to the job long term.
Especially round the ratchet attachment point and under the ratchet at the ladder entry point.. as its weak material and the attachment design is minimal.
The whole padded strap bit is only held on by one point been... the tiny ratchet screw through too the inner plastic bone later with synthetic marterial stretch, it goes wrong.
Some other union model straps are much better like the all new design SL/apex but the Force padded strap attachment is prone to durability weakness at both ends of temp and conditions.
In colder -20 conds check and be careful of the ankle ladder (as they can snap) .. right at the ankle ladder pivot boss its the one to keep a eye on, after lots use.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 28-05-12 12:06; edited 6 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You're really selling Union bindings to me guys. Hope they've got a good spares/repairs/replacement dept.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Not like burton service it rules, stateside union is very good so if you strike a wall in europe get hold of parts via email from usa.
Trying to find union parts in a store in europe or sent via post will never be easy like with burtons service.
I choose to ride them as I dropped a binding size and the heelcup moving (which is the main issue) is maxed out now anyway in a smaller size binding.
They are the right flex for everything anywhere in my case except hard piste carving (if I have a choice) it was cartels this year but in a race I took Forces .
The highbacks and flex sucked the ruts up that a stiffer binding would transmit to my old legs.
You could probably run any other bindings down but my post was aimed more at recognizing the possible glitches and overcoming them.
They are great for a long days riding not sending you too the resturant or home early from tired legs.
It becomes annoying though when having too check up to 8 screws per binding and tightening some of them twice a day not including the 4 main brd bolts.
In the end I could tell it was the hardpack in colder jan that rattled them the most.
I have a few pairs so always can pirate spares pushing them quite hard is why the ankle ladder snapped but if you think about it the fittings held but the ladder plastic gave out and was well used.
Cold temps I,m certain affect some ladders burtons toe ladders used to snap.
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