 Poster: A snowHead
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Just heard that my friend a guide in La Grave is attending the funeral of a La Grave guide today - evidently he died on Monday when his client fell into a couloir and the guide went after them and also fell trying to rescue him, it happened somewhere above Les Freaux - sort of puts it into perspective.........though most skiing LG do not entertain the idea of doing some of these really steep chutes - back in 2006 Doug Coombs and another guide died in a similar situation*, with one falling and the other going in to try to recsue him.
Very sad
*Polichinelle couloir http://www.skierslodge.com/legend/#
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 17-02-12 11:21; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Who died?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not 100% sure - maybe a guy called Michael - only 30 years old
It's a bummer - just can't stop thinking about it .............. there but for the grace of god etc etc
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sad news, that link makes it look a very serious narrow coloir with some slide slipping essential 
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more details here:
http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/1168
sounds like it was in La Voute after one of the rappells (surely the second, otherwise I don't see how the uninjure client could have got down to the others). a bit surprising if that is right. that's always a route which struck me as somewhere where you need to watch your step very carefully but not really fall and you die terrain
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Very sad. La Grave is a beautiful but harsh office to work in.
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^ Arno - Out of respect for the dead it doesn't feel right to comment / speculate on such incidents.
Though when the snow is firm such an accident is one that could have happened almost anywhere.
Especially someplace like La Grave when much of the terrain is > 35 degrees.
Often a simple uncontrolled slide on hardpack can be much more dangerous that the (often better publicised) risk of being avalanched.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Haggis_Trap, fair point. Don't think it does any harm to be interested in the facts so we can learn from them. I do agree that armchair quarterbacking with limited knowledge of the events is distateful and that isn't my intention
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Dreadful. The recent video linked on pistehors makes it look unbelievably frightening, not only steep but so very rocky. My sympathy goes out to the families.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This is an awful, tragic event but I feel the need to question why people would put themselves into such a position?
The video is unbelievable...extremely steep, narrow, icy, rocky with absolutely no chance to recover from a mistake if something goes wrong.
I understand that sometimes people want to push themselves or seek out another thrill but when it could end up with a death I have to question whether it is a sensible decision especially as it ends up with other people putting themselves at risk as rescuers.
What do my fellow SHs think?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurdy, I did that run several years ago when I was a much worse skier than I am now. It is challenging but not extreme. However, as Haggis_Trap says, if you catch a run when the snow is hard many can be unforgiving
it is certainly one of the most memorable runs I have done
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"It's the life" as my friend once told me.
Regards Mark
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurdy wrote: |
This is an awful, tragic event but I feel the need to question why people would put themselves into such a position?
The video is unbelievable...extremely steep, narrow, icy, rocky with absolutely no chance to recover from a mistake if something goes wrong.
I understand that sometimes people want to push themselves or seek out another thrill but when it could end up with a death I have to question whether it is a sensible decision especially as it ends up with other people putting themselves at risk as rescuers.
What do my fellow SHs think? |
Not skied that one, but looking at it, it doesn't look like a 100% no fall zone. If you did go, but you knew your back bottom from your elbow and had a clue about self arrest (which you would do or you wouldn't even be there), you would be fine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sad news, not clear from post above but it was a guide and a client that died, see the pistehors article.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurdy, Mountaineers go UP crazy things. Skiers come down.It's the same kind of drive. I am old now and wouldn't seek this but 12 years ago I did some LG couloirs and regard it as the pinnacle of my achievement. Like Arno I ski much better now, but thought I was good then (I wasn't ) .....steep was the holy grail. I won't knock anyone who does these things. We don't set out to die but it's a card in the pack. There is no audience. Probably only two or three know you've done it. I am nothing in the echelons of hard skiers but this gave me a look at what the big boys do and I wouldn't have missed it for anything.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Farley Goode, ditto
Having had a few drinks tonight and saw (earlier) Hurdy's post was going to go off on one......... but his (Farley Goode)'s post pretty well sums it up.
My other half and I are a bit at odds in that our neighbours where we stay in Serre have a son, who is a "young guide" in LG, and has only "done" a few years..........
I can't bring myself to call up my friend to find out if that is the case..........
It's not the first time I have known a guide "departu".......
On a more positive note, I have "unearthed" some dvd footage from our trips in 2001 / 2002 - pre "YouTube" of our La Grave escapades, edited by a great friend of ours, and lay testament to what LG and "their Guides" deliver........
Will post vids in a couple of days, as I have some techy stuff to do !
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 18-02-12 0:27; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, sobering article. Thanks for posting.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fatbob, I guess he mixes with a pretty extreme crowd.
"And I am increasingly certain that if anyone spends enough time in the mountains, he or she will die there." is just wrong obviously. I'm astonished by the number of deaths he's experienced. I've been skiing for 25 years, I've worked 4 seasons and I've never lost someone I've known in the mountains.
"There are 27 names on my list." - if I'd lost 27 friends to the mountains I can't imagine that I'd leave home again. That's a heartbreaking number of deaths. I'm lost for words to be honest.
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Weathercam...feel free to go off one one. I can understand that such a tragedy evokes strong emotions in people and why some people would be inclined to make such comments.
I was simply commenting on the, in my opinion, risky quest to ski such terrain.
My wife and I are some of the people called upon to help others when things go wrong so I feel that I am slightly qualified to comment on matters where someone's actions end up endangering other people.
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| Hurdy wrote: |
Weathercam...feel free to go off one one. I can understand that such a tragedy evokes strong emotions in people and why some people would be inclined to make such comments.
I was simply commenting on the, in my opinion, risky quest to ski such terrain.
My wife and I are some of the people called upon to help others when things go wrong so I feel that I am slightly qualified to comment on matters where someone's actions end up endangering other people. |
The above, in bold, is a bit of a tease. What do you and your wife do in that regard? If skiers were falling to their deaths in their hundreds down such routes every season, then you might have a point, but as accidents in such places are very rare, you don't.
I love skiing such terrain, so who are you to tell me I'm endangering others? There is a industry that has grown up around servicing people's wish to get into such places and all those involves understand and accept the risks. So, again, who are you to criticise?
The fact is that skiing such routes with good snow isn't very dangerous for capable skiers and you don't even need extra special insurance cover to do it.
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alan empty, if you're ever in LG or passing through stop off by the bureau des guides office in the main car park on a bend and next to the office is a monument with the names of all the guides who have died, it is very moving.
Its almost an unwritten rule, well from our experience, that you don't talk about death & details with the guides, or just maybe the one I know very well as a friend, never talks about "what if's" & we respect that and never raise the subject.
I'm pretty sure more people inc guides die when ski touring than any other winter mountain activity*, and you would not exactly class ski touring as hard core, unless you are hiking up steep chutes etc, it's something the old farts (like me) do 
*summer mountaineering / climbing etc fatalities maybe higher than skiing etc ?????
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Weathercam
dude
very sad for family and friends
but
what is the purpose or your intention for this thread?
informative?
commiseration?
debate?
ok bye
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| ^ Arno - Out of respect for the dead it doesn't feel right to comment / speculate on such incidents |
| Weathercam wrote: |
| Having had a few drinks tonight and saw (earlier) Hurdy's post was going to go off on one......... |
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What a shame.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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To understand the motivation of people who want to do these things is difficult for a lot of people. I cannot see a problem with skiing this terrain, although I (probably) wouldn't do it myself. But then I do climb and do winter mountaineering so have a different attitude to some.
The lift systems in the resorts make the mountains extremely accessible but make no mistake, you're in an inhospitable environment.
The decision to ski extreme terrain should be an informed one, based on experience and having the right techniques to cope. Even the most capable can have an accident or equipment failure, if there was no risk involved there wouldn't be the desire to do many things.
'Putting people's lives at risk to rescue them', well - my experience of Mountain Rescue has been that it is carried out by people that are passionate about what they do and they are no more putting their lives at risk than they would be doing what they enjoy anyway, their choice - what has it got to do with anyone else? If someone has been foolhardy and poorly prepared/equipped then I'm sure there'll be some annoyance but I'd wager that there are as many 'accidents' to those that are as those that aren't.
"And I am increasingly certain that if anyone spends enough time in the mountains, he or she will die there." I totally agree but if all you're doing is skiing on-piste you'll probably die of old-age first! Just because you ski doesn't necessarily give you any insight into spending time in the mountains as in this context.
Unfortunately there are too many people prepared to make judgements about things they know little about. I wonder how long it will be before Le Grave is no more and off-piste skiing banned?
RIP condolences to friends and families.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Very sad
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| Quote: |
I wonder how long it will be before Le Grave is no more and off-piste skiing banned?
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Could be sooner than you think. I'm not sure the lift is going to last too much longer.
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You know it makes sense.
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alan empty, He's one of the world's top ice climbers so it's fair to assume that his circle includes lots of people who are pushing the boundaries in the mountains in all activities.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I know it is sad when a client lost his life but to some extent he asked and paid for this extreme experience.
Would it be sadder for the guide who did it for a living and could not refuse to go along? say when he found the snow was too icy but there was no way to turn back. The third skier, who was a client too, managed to survive and raise the alarm.
This video posted in Pistehors.com pretty much sums up what was the risk. It is a glorious experience when the skiers win but it is sad event when the mountain wins. At the end of the day it is all about how much we trust the snow gripping our skis to keep us alive
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Poster: A snowHead
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saikee, is it not the guides job to guide the skier? Cant see that a guide would do/go something/somewhere, just because a client wants to; if he thought it was too risky. Its not slavery, its a job; surely he can refuse if your assumptions are correct.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hairybiker,
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Unfortunately there are too many people prepared to make judgements about things they know little about
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I think it's legitimate for anyone to express a view about doing any non-essential activity which risks disabling or fatal injury, isn't it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think for somewhere like La Grave it is an essential activity though. I've been there twice to do the "tourist" routes and it seemed to me that the whole lifeblood and economy of the place is reliant on that mountain and the sort of activity that most of us wouldn't consider.
Still very, very sad though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Colin B,
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for somewhere like La Grave it is an essential activity
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good point
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Unfortunately there are too many people prepared to make judgements about things they know little about
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That is true. Many people are chicken and value their lives more than those participating the extreme end of the sport. After all not everyone ski for the kick of it. Many may just do it as a recreation.
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saikee, thanks for post that video. What a run; I can see why they wanted to do it. That said, it's reinforced my view that my days of wanting to do steeper and steeper are over. Care responsibilities, old age, lack of ability and cowardice are diminishing my thrill seeking.
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fatbob, definitely. That amount of deaths amongst friends just seems so high, which I guess is the point of the article you linked to. Very sobering.
Weathercam, I'm sure I'll be back to that area one day and I'll pay a visit to the bureau.
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| saikee wrote: |
| Many people are chicken and value their lives more than those participating the extreme end of the sport. |
I really don't want to get involved in the discussion on this particular thread, however the assumption that people skiing steeper off-piste runs value their lives less than people cruising reds in a resort is totally wrong.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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offpisteskiing, I have to be one of the biggest 'chickens' (as saikee so kindly puts it), but would totally disagree with his assumption. Living life to the full and enjoying it to its extremes does not mean youj value your life less. In fact I think it is the opposite in some ways, because you are determined to enjoy every moment to the full.
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dudes
living life to the full is one thing
but
if you risk your life more and live on the edge
like base jumpers, fighetr pilots, extreme skiers
does that mean you value it less ?
ok bye
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