 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
Just back from Les Deux Alpes. Excellent week, but a nightmare return journey. Bus picked us up 3 hours late, got to airport 45 mins before flight, told aircraft in Dublin! Got on Plane 3 hours late, sat on plane for over an hour, got back to EDI 4 hours behind schedule on Sat night, were then told that they never bothered to load any of the bags onto the aircraft! Now Wednesday, and the bags have only made it the 100 miles from Chambery to Geneva!! ETA for baggage arrival, Xmas 2012 by the looks of it.
Was hoping to ski this weekend, have been refused point blank compensation/expenses claim for hired kit for the weekend. Will have to go through the small claims court. £500 excess on insurance, and it only covers loss, not delay on return journey.
I'll not be using either Crystal or Jet2 ever again - complete and utter shambles.
I can forgive them most of it, but to not have the bags 4 days after flight landed is unforgivable.
Anyone else on that same flight??
Nigel
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This sounds really grim.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just be thnkfull it wasnt on the outbound journey and eating into your holiday.
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Yep, true! Very likely to screw up my plans for a long weekend's skiing/touring this weekend in Scotland though (if the weather does not do that beforehand!).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Now, I have a soft spot for Crystal having just come back from a superb week with them which was professional, high quality and great value, so let me have a look at it from their point of view.
It is possible, knowing the plane was going to be delayed, they also delayed the pick-up. Delays happen with aeroplanes. I would be grateful to remain at the hotel for those 3 hours rather than be at the airport for that time.
It is possible that skis and bags were not loaded in an attempt to catch up the schedule. I would imagine most passengers would have opted for separation from their bags for a few days on return (I think your estimate of 11+ months very unlikely, to be honest) rather than further delays to the flight. I would expect this to be the most expensive and difficult option for Crystal, but the best for most passengers. This is, perhaps, why that decision was made.
You are fortunate to be able to ski again this weekend, presumably in Scotland. I hope there is some snow. Not many people on your flight would be in that position.
So, all in all, you have suffered a three hour delay - not unusual with air travel in winter, and your bags are delayed in returning to you. Not the greatest horror-story I have heard, really.
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I doubt there is any airline or tour operator that can guarantee to avoid this kind of thing. 
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I think everyone on the aircraft (given it flew into Edinburgh) would be able to ski this weekend if they wished to, and could put up with the dirty weather and brown snow!!
I too have heard (and been involved in!) far worse stories than mine. As I said, I could forgive them everything apart from not having got me my bags 4 days after the flight landed. I gather it was down to 'capacity' on other aircraft for additional bags - this too would have been known well in advance. In which case the bags should have been loaded onto a vehicle and driven back to Scotland.
The holiday (as I said), was 'Excellent' up until the return transfer. The Crystal staff in-resort did not know what was happening, they had had little feedback about issues with buses from earlier in the day. It was 'news' to Crystal reps upon arrival at Chambery that the aircraft was delayed. The aircraft was on the ground for over 2 hours - plenty of time to load the bags (hell, I could have loaded them all on my tod in 2 hours!)
We were not 'at the hotel' for three hours rather we were sat on the side of the street in the snow on top of our suitcases for three hours. We were in fact about a mile from the hotel since Crystal had taken us to the 'pick up point' earlier in the day in their in resort mini-bus. The whole transfers system is run so close to the bone that any slight hick-up early doors has knock-on effects throughout the day.
There were other folks on the Bus who were travelling to Exeter (with a young kid). They missed their FlyBe flight which did leave on time. They got taken to Stanstead and stuck on a bus to Exeter, ~200 miles away. They then had on onward drive to deepest Cornwall. Crystal should have used their in-resort mini bus to get this party to the airport in time for their flight - thus saving them a vast amount of hassle.
The whole thing was a Shambles where no one had any information for customers what-so-ever.
Ever heard the saying 'sometime this side of Christmas'?? My xmas comment was very tongue in cheek!
Oh, BTW: If anyone needs ski tuition, the ESS (Euopean ski/snowboard school), comes highly recommended. They were Crystals' partner. Very good tuition, and none of this 'follow me' rubbish that I have had from the ESF in the past. 5 folks in group, and some class-shifting the first day to make sure folks were similar ability/speed. Video session one day, followed by an hour in a pub in the eveing to go through the vids, and a check-list of area's/techniques marked up by the instructor at the end of the week so you knew what was good and what needed work. Skiied every piste, just wished the fresh snow had come earlier for some off-piste fun!
Nigel
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I flew back with Jet2 from Chambery to Manchester that weekend, and blagged my way onto a Crystal transfer (was on holiday with OTP, so effectively DIY) from Val Thorens (very nice of the rep) as the Altibus one hadn't shown up and I was getting rather worried. I did not get on a transfer until about 2 and a half hours later than planned (but missing out the Moutiers holdover meant I got to Chambery in time)
The problem with the transfer buses arriving late that was due to roads being closed for avalanche protection, so it wasn't directly Crystal's fault. Their reps should have kept you up to date however, the ones in VT were running around talking to their parties constantly which I was quite impressed with from the perspective of an outsider.
Luggage is pretty inexcusable but most likely the fault of the ground staff at Chambery not Jet2 directly since all the check in and bag loading is done by airport staff. It was pretty damn chaotic there last weekend, with lots of flights being held to wait for delayed transfers.
Our flight ended up sat on the tarmac for 40 mins just due to traffic of delayed flights even though it was ready to go on time.
Other than that I would second Chris Bish and Mike3000's comments.
The staff should have given you more information to be fair, the Crystal staff I saw certainly had more available in VT.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 25-01-12 13:58; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thats why i either go with a club or with a group of friends.I book everything seperate. Flights, acc and rentals (generally bring my own gear). Also the place where you stay can be more flexable with you if you choose different days to stay or if you want to do 10+ day trip. Works out cheaper too! 
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cathalibm, unless there's a delay in the transfer and they can't hold the flight for you... Lots of people on the Crystal bus I managed to get on would have missed their flight entirely if the reps hadn't held flights or sorted out alternatives.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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cathalibm, I got stuck in Geneva for 2 nights on one independent holiday I booked. Crystal and other TOs are not perfect, but at least delays caused by snow are their problem, and you have some help.
The language of the OP does seem a bit immoderate in the circumstances.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi
Aye, we have done ad-hoc many times in the past. Nendaz last year, leaving resort at midnight in hire car to get a flight back to EDI from BASEL at 6AM!! Did Meribel ad-hoc the year before and umpteen trips to Tignes ad-hoc.
This holiday with Crystal was a fair bargain IMHO. Cost us 550each for a couple including transfers at both ends, insurance, flight, ski carriage, lift passes and hotel (self catering).
All I want is my ruddy bags back!!!!
Nigel
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You got a superb bargain from Crystal, had an excellent week, recommend the ski school and tell us all to
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Avoid CrystalSki and Jet2.com at all costs!!
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as they had problem with the transfers as roads were closed through avalanche danger.
I am not convinced your advice is valid. I, for one, will not be taking it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Chris Bish, +1.
veletron, get decent travel insurance next time round.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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>Avoid CrystalSki and Jet2.com at all costs!!
Maybe if I could get a reasonable response from Jet2 about why the bags were not loaded I would be more accommodating - but I can't. 'Operational Reasons' is as far as I got with Jet2. I have mentioned before (several times) that the only thing I cannot forgive is the excessive baggage delay. poo-poo happens, but clearing up said poo-poo should be done swiftly!
There were no reports of avalanche dangers on the early or later bus transfers from Les Deux Alpes. Early buses were delayed due to both snow on the road, mechanical failure, and bus drivers being out of time with no replacement drivers available. Come 10AM, cars and buses were coming up the road without chains.
Snowcard.com insurance, - very few policies cover claims for delays to luggage on the return journey.
Anyway, I am all ranted out now!
Nigel
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Poster: A snowHead
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Chris Bish, +1.
I'd suggest complaining about the poor insurance. I for one usually steer clear of the high excess low value policies as there is a fair chance of this kind of disruption (that is unless there's no snow and then we WOULD be complaining)...
We had a bit of a long trawl down from Val Tho last weekend but we were fairly chilled as the insurance would have covered any re-booking etc....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BA lost my luggage when terminal 5 opened and I didn't get either bag back for between 10 and 14 days IIRC. I would advise people never to fly BA.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alans deep bath, 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Alans deep bath wrote: |
Chris Bish, +1.
veletron, get decent travel insurance next time round. |
and what decent travel insurance covers you for delays in gettings your luggage on the return leg of a holiday?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Very few afaik!
Just chatted to the baggage lady at EDI - Good news is the bags are apparently now in Luton (came over on three separate flights through various parts of Europe from Geneva). I wish I had a GPS tag on it - its journey would be amusing!
Heading to EDI and GLA on various flights throughout today/tomorrow. Delivery Fri/Sat. I'll have to hire some kit, and then attempt to claim it back (from someone!).
Baggage lady commented that it was one of the worst cases of missing bags she had ever dealt with. Over 100 folks and 170 bags. She's back in EDI tonight for an extra shift to try and sort it out.
Nigel
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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veletron, I understand your frustration. A few weeks ago I felt very similar about delays, issues with transfers, flying to different airports, and things not going to plan.
Unfortunately it took me about a week to realise that it really wasn't the biggest issue on earth. The bags are a bit late. But you got home so you could go to work and get on with your life. The bags will get back to you, and if they don't, you have travel insurance.
Sadly some of this is a byproduct of us, as consumers, driving prices down to a point that everything is cut very very fine and there is no fat at all in the operation, staff are inexperienced because they can't afford to hire experienced and capable managers for this type of scenario.
cathalibm, this scenario is exactly the reason why I pretty much always travel with a TO - they have a legal obligation to get you home. In your scenario, your transfer bus is 3 hours late, you have just missed a flight. Depending on the airline, you will end up having to buy another ticket, on the day, to get home. That could cost hundreds of pounds that you won't be getting back from the transfer operator. You could end up with no seats available back to the UK for the entire day, and trying to find yourself a hotel for the night, without any compensation from the airline, after all you were the one that missed the flight, and then trying to find another flight the next day for who knows how much.
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baggage delayed on trip out - (would have been) very annoying
baggage delayed on trip back - annoying but much less so
cost of rental for a weekend - not the end of the world. Your own gear will be two days' worth newer / better
unforgivable - a term better applied to running a cruise ship aground so the crew can wave to their family. Less so to four days' delay of the baggage on the return trip.
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zebedee, just referring to the ridiculous execss on that one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Seems relatively efficient given the airline industry's potential to screw things up. You'd have been moaning if you'd sat on the tarmac for 2 hours waiting for your bags to be loaded or missed curfew and deplaned. Delays happen. They got you home in reasonable timeframe - luggage is an annoyance but not the eend of the world.
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'unforgivable'
Re the Costa Concordia Cruise Ship --> I would use the term 'manslaughter' for that one!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| veletron wrote: |
| We were not 'at the hotel' for three hours rather we were sat on the side of the street in the snow on top of our suitcases for three hours. |
 I can't believe you stayed there for 3 hours!!! Didn't you freeze/dehydrate/want the loo? I came back last Sunday, (Crystal holiday, lovely, thanks), and for the return trip, we were told to walk to the bus stop, with luggage, and be there for 5.30 am. It wasn't far but it was dark and icy cold. Now the reps have everyone's moby number. So, why can't we all sit in reception and, when the bus is say, 15 mins away, one of us gets a call to say start walking. We'd still have been there before the bus.
Actually, the bus arrived in less than 10 mins so all was OK, but we'd already agreed that 20 mins was the maximum waiting/freezing time. If the bus wasn't there, we'd go back and wait in the warm and anticipate the frantic 'phone call!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We once left Montreal Airport in a snowstorm on an Air France flight with a change at CDG. The Transatlantic flight was delayed by ?5hrs so we missed the connection at CDG and were put on a later flight. As we were being loaded onto the plane to LHR I could see two of our cases (they were bright orange) on a luggage cart on the apron, not loaded. I pointed this out to the air steward who assured me that they would be loaded - but I could still see them out of the window as the plane pulled back (I was ever so slightly cross).
When we arrived at LHR all 5 items of hold luggage (there were 5 of us) were missing - they turned up in 5 separate deliveries over the course of the next 15 days.
We had to buy underwear, socks and various other essentials which we were also unable to claim back.
Interestingly (in relation to the OP warning us off Jet2 and Crystal) I would never fly AirFrance via CDG again.
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It was not that cold, and there was a bog nearby. It was 11AM. I was more jealous of all the folks still out skiing - had we known about the delay we would have gotten a half day pass!
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You know it makes sense.
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| veletron wrote: |
| Will have to go through the small claims court. £500 excess on insurance, and it only covers loss, not delay on return journey. |
You had a £500 excess on your insurance because it kept down the cost of the insurance.
And now you're complaining the excess is too high.
I think Crystal will be delighted you're not travelling with them again having posted comments like this on the 'net for what was, if we're being honest, a 4 hour delay in getting home in the middle of winter from a snowy part of the world.
Don't expect to win in the small claims court, BTW.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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what a wally.
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Poster: A snowHead
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oops
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Never had a problem with Crystal. The only gripe was the price fluctuation, it being cheaper nearer the time and no real benefit for booking early, other than getting in. However that's been explained both on this forum and by Crystal and I can understand the rationale.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I was once delayed 12 hours after a ski holiday in Soldeu. It was a nightmare at the time but I have used TO since. In fact I have had excellent bargains with First Choice /TUI £199 to Les Orres, £199 Gosau and £199 Arinsal since.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The one thing that does bug me is what they can away with over lost, delayed and damaged luggage.
The Warsaw Convention that they cite seems pretty outdated and looks like nothing more than a cartel policy of 'tough poo-poo'
Maybe if they were subject to paying out the real costs over luggage issues, in the modern litigious context, they would improve.
As it stands its probably cheaper to pay out the limited amounts than meet the costs of doing things properly.
I wouldn't mind paying more to be sure that everything was transported properly and carefully.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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By way of balance, I went with a group to Ischgl with Crystal last week returning to Edinburgh Saturday (I returned early, but rest of the group stayed the week). The road from Ischgl to Innsbruck looked dodgy because of heavy snow and risk of closure. Crystal made the brave decision to move all skiers from resort to an airport hotel Friday night. They managed to get them through before the road closed Saturday morning. Then the airport at Innsbruck closed due to snow. They got plane transferred to Munich and bussed everyone there. There was, of course, a delay in the expected arrival time, but good judgement was applied all round. The cost of an extra hotel night for everyone must have been pretty hefty! This made me realise the value of booking with a TO rather than independently. Well done Crystal!
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Worst I think I had was with Neilson, we were in a smaller reosrt so a minibus take us to rendezvous with the main coach. We were told after stadning around in the cold for a while with no shelter that the main bus bus had become jack-knifed at Les Arc so another bus would be along. We (or so we initally thought) had just made the flight. To cut alnog story short the captain came on saying that the jack-knifed bus was 5 minutes away so we would wait for them. It continued to be 5 mins down the road for nearly 4.5 hours but due to it being a chartered flight it was Neilsons call.
Was a bleeding nightmare being stuck on a stationary plane for that ammount of time but I bet those who were stuck on the bus all that time were glad they waited for them-obviosuly saved Neilson the cost of having to get them on another flights, extra accomdation and all that goes with that. Had similar where nearly missing flights where the bags haven't made it, it comes down to you getting on the flight and getting home bagless or not as scheduled.
Touch wood I've never had any issues with Crystal, using them 3 times this season but I believe all the flights are Thompson.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Checked my insurance, and excess is £250 not the £500 I mentioned. It does not matter anyway since nothing is claimable for delayed luggage on the return trip (just like 99% of travel policies if you read the small print). It covers for loss/damage, not delay. At £60 for a couple for a week, I don't consider it to be budget insurance. I could have insured for £15 each but I actually wanted it to work in the event of needing to be helicoptered off the piste!
James the Last: If you read the thread you'll see that I ain't bothered about the 4 hours delay etc etc poo-poo happens I just want my bags! Your comments about insurance at a moot point since most (all?) insurance policies do not allow for any claims for delayed baggage on the RETURN journey.
I hear from WH that someone travelling in the other direction EDI-->CHAM on the same day earlier on found that 48 bags never made it onto their flight. Women at EDI tells me she has heard rumours of an aircraft fault that means that one of the baggage bays was inaccessible. I am betting the aircraft each way was the same, and issues with the cargo doors would explain 2 flights leaving bags behind.
BTW several folks on WH have had issues with Crystal, so perhaps Crystal save the bad times for those from north of the border!
Anyway, tomorrow i'll hopefully get my bags and turn into a happy bloke hopping heather, and dodging rocks at Glencoe once more!
Glencoe on a good day: http://vimeo.com/21183577
Cairngorm on a good day: http://vimeo.com/20759283 / http://vimeo.com/21537555
Glenshee on a good day: http://vimeo.com/19117684
Nevis range on a windy day: http://vimeo.com/21323990
Nigel
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Hurray!! Got my bags. Turned up last night 6 days (almost to the hour) after we landed. Contents was soaking wet. Baggage storage area for Geneva Airport must be the Lake!! Either that or Jet2 read this thread and gave them a good soaking in revenge!!
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FAQ
