 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Guys, i was wondering if anybody out their has any advice in regards to learning to be an instructor in Whistler. I am 19 years old and fancy taking the plunge cheers. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to SH I will introduce the BASI v CSIA debate.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimeehan1, where do you live?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kitenski, Near Burnley,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ok, so do you want to take the British route, or a gap year route out in Canada?
You could, for example, take your BASI L1 at Xscape Leeds or Chillefactor Manchester, then move into the Canadian system, or take your BASI L2 in Europe before moving into the Canadian system. At 19 the world is your oyster!
cheers,
Greg
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you can't figure out which is the correct forum section to post your question then good luck in planning a season in Whistler 
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spyderjon, There you've gone and spoilt it now
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LOL still learning my way around SH only joined two hours ago
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kitenski, Not exactly sure yet which route to take possible looking at the 10 to 11 week course. just trying to work out which is the best route to take in regards to future employment as a ski instructor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimeehan1, if you are looking at this as a route to a future career, then the first decision you need to make is where you are likely to want to work - Europe or Canada. You then need to consider if you want to do a gap year course, or the standalone qualifications.
If you are likely to want to work in Europe at some point, then you may want to consider BASI. You can read further info on courses here:
http://www.basigap.com/
http://www.basi.org.uk/index.aspx
Feel free to ask if you have any questions.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Will try and reply properly later, when I have an actual keyboard to use. Can echo what's been said before - think about where you want to work, and if you think you'll plan on doing it long term. I'm currently CSIA, but planning a potential move to BASI (as my goals as an instructor/coach are changing, and with them what I need from my quals).
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Right, just remembered that I'd said I was going to respond properly...
Much as I love the Canadian system, I have to say that I don't fully agree with kitenski. I can't really see a reason, at least not in the short-to-mid term, to start with BASI and then transfer to CSIA. Unless you have aspirations to become an SSD or trainer in Canada, you can get by perfectly well with BASI qualifications (and they may not even be a hindrance to becoming an SSD). However, if you literally have a bottomless pit of £50 notes, then why not! I'm doing it the other way round because CSIA have buggered over their members with regard to progressing beyond ISIA (and, however slim the possibility, I would rather like to try).
[now enters subjective mode]
Personally, I can't see the point of the gap courses, at least if your aim is to instruct. My thoughts are that you would be better off getting out there, doing the L1 and securing a job (some schools will offer you a job before passing - on the proviso that you do, obviously). Then enjoy a season of instructing and knock off the L2 towards the end of the season, then go from there. You'll get in-house training throughout the season - so you won't be missing out on the development. You might not get quite as much, but it'll all be damn good. This option might not be as much of a jolly, but, for me at any rate, it would be more fun and rewarding.
Alternatively, if you're just looking to get loads of skiing in, develop your skills, pick up a couple of instructor quals, and then maybe do a couple of weeks of instructing per year... then the gap course might be just what you're looking for.
If you do want to make a proper career out of it, then perhaps do along the lines of what kitenski, suggested. Get your BASI L1 asap at a snowdome. Get your shadowing hours in so you can be in a position to take your L2 pre-season and work the season. Best of both worlds, plus you're in the system which, currently, offers by far the better opportunities to develop your career in Europe.
Right, that was probably all carp... But it's been a while since I've had the opportunity to opine about anything...
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm doing it the other way round because CSIA have buggered over their members with regard to progressing beyond ISIA (and, however slim the possibility, I would rather like to try).
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Just curious how the CSIA have buggered over their members with regard to progressing beyond the ISIA? As far as I know the level 3 still gets you the ISIA stamp provided you have a couple very easy prerequisites such AST1 and a basic first aid cert.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| section8skinerd wrote: |
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I'm doing it the other way round because CSIA have buggered over their members with regard to progressing beyond ISIA (and, however slim the possibility, I would rather like to try).
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Just curious how the CSIA have buggered over their members with regard to progressing beyond the ISIA? As far as I know the level 3 still gets you the ISIA stamp provided you have a couple very easy prerequisites such AST1 and a basic first aid cert. |
Indeed, correct, and succinctly put. You may now note the use of the words 'progressing beyond'... 
To elaborate, therefore... CSIA have given no indication that they have any inclination to develop training programmes to satisfy ISIA requirements for the ISTD since the changes of a few years ago when L4 lost ISTD equivalence.
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Poster: A snowHead
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There has been a lot of chat about this at recent course conductor courses... The problem is that guiding and instruction are very different streams in North America but from what I gathered the CSIA is working with the CSGA to develop a stream that would meet those standards.
Apologies if I sabotaged this thread... just stumbled upon it and was curious.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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section8skinerd, Guiding and instructing are very different streams in Europe too. Most punters looking to get into serious guided terrain will go for the full guide who is an ordinary skier rather than the super instructor. I suspect that most instructors in Europe taking their clients into offpiste terrain are not going into areas of real material objective risk, often you will observe instructors leading groups offpiste without full kit and I've even come across full cert instructors who don't own a transceiver.
None of this is to say there aren't instructors who I would be very happy with leading me off piste but I'd rather put my life in the hands of a specialist rather than a jack of all trades who might have been teaching kids for the past 4 weeks rather than getting out on a daily basis and experiencing the snowpack and routes.
This is why I don't think it's practically that big a deal for the Canadian system to drag themselves up but they need to recognise that their remit for their members goes wider than equipping them for the North American market particularly if they are keen to drag in internationals.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Absolutely.... I agree.
There has been a lot of talk about going to a more modular system (rather than simply level 1 to 4) to make it easier for CSIA members to meet the ISIA standards.
As you mentioned, the mountain safety curriculum included in the European instructor streams is miniscule compared to that of guides. The CSGA (Canadian Ski Guides Association) has a pre-course option prior to their level 1 and I was told the CSIA is working with the CSGA to have this course (or something similar) as module for those wishing to obtain ISTD equivalence. CSGA level 1 which is a much higher standard than this is already one of the prerequisite paths to obtain level 4 so I do think they are at least heading in the right direction there.
Of course who knows how long it will take to implement all this. They did react pretty quickly to get the level 3 back on track for the ISIA stamp so hopefully the rest won't be far behind. I'm sure we'll get an update in the fall.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Now that I've totally sidetracked this conversation, I suppose I should answer Skimeehan1's original question...
If you want to become an instructor in Whistler there are several options... You can take a gap type course (which makes life easier) and then get hooked into the snow school through them once you finish. If you want to go that route, I recommend YES Tours as they are the longest standing instructor program there and run a high quality course (I have no affiliation with them other than I used to coach for them a long time ago and know most of the guys who coach for them now). Of course there are a bunch of gap course on offer there as well who I'm sure all run good courses. My advice is to do some research on all the companies and be sure to read the fine print so you know exactly what is included in the cost of each.
There are shorter 3-4 week courses where you can do your level 1, then work for the rest of the season provided you can supply your own working visa. Some of the longer 11/12 week courses are a bigger investment and probably won't give you much opportunity to work that first season but obtaining level 2 means many places will sponsor you for a working visa the following season. It's pretty tough to get sponsored visas from Whistler these days though unless you have a lot of experience.
The other option is to get yourself an 'International Experience' visa and head out there on your own... They run a level 1 course almost every week in Whistler so you can do this right away and then hopefully there will be a position in the kids snow school available once you finish. These jobs used to be plentiful but with everyone coming out of the gap programs these days I'm not sure if they are as easy to get now. This option does appear to be much more economical on the surface but when you take into account living expenses and time off to train for courses etc that is not always the case. Level 1 courses are run through the mountain so you can just go to the Whislter/Blackcomb website to find out the schedule. They do have some job fairs in November so it would be a good idea to to go to one of those.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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section8skinerd, excellent post (and apologies if my earlier response was a bit terse). It's good to have someone around with their finger on the pulse actually in Canada - at times it can feel a bit isolated on this side of the pond... I certainly hope you're right about more work with the CSGA as part of a plan to bump L4 back up to ISTD (would save me a shed load of money on a speculative move to BASI - speculative as I'm pretty confident I'll never be ISTD standard...)
As it happens, I picked up my L1 in a similar manner to your last suggestion (simply because I was on a solo holiday in Whistler and wanted some people to ski with... Arguably it's the best impulse buy I've ever made...) Sadly I didn't get to work that season as I was off to join the Royal Navy two weeks later, but thoroughly enjoyed the experience and the course conductors were top drawer. It certainly ignited a desire to teach skiing, and I've progressed from there over the years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I did the latter version of doing a season as a liftie in Australia and the decided to do a season in Canada where I did my level 1 at the start of the season and got a job at the ski school and trained all winter before doing my level 2 in the spring. I worked at Cypress mountain which is north Vancouver so pretty handy for trips to whistler! Probably heading back there this coming winter.
Also a friend did the Yes training mentioned above and had a very good experience.
Good luck whichever option you decide and if you want any more info give me a shout.
Gregg
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Urrghhh no - from my experience I'd avoid YES like the plague... every man and his dog had the code to our front door because they had all lived there or had friends there and the code was not changed at all... someone took a dump on the lounge and someone spread it everywhere... the code still did not get changed until we jumped up and down about it...
drunk guy screaming at the doors in the middle of the night and when one small female looked out he went for her and my friend had to come to the rescue and save us... (no locks on bedroom doors so we had to put furniture against it in case of a return visit)
Instructor lost half the class in one bump run - two of them had skied into tree wells but instructor skied elsewhere (different run) and did not notice...
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Urrghhh no - from my experience I'd avoid YES like the plague... every man and his dog had the code to our front door because they had all lived there or had friends there and the code was not changed at all... someone took a dump on the lounge and someone spread it everywhere... the code still did not get changed until we jumped up and down about it...
drunk guy screaming at the doors in the middle of the night and when one small female looked out he went for her and my friend had to come to the rescue and save us... (no locks on bedroom doors so we had to put furniture against it in case of a return visit)
Instructor lost half the class in one bump run - two of them had skied into tree wells but instructor skied elsewhere (different run) and did not notice...
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Wow... quite the experience little tiger... perhaps things have gone downhill since I left Whistler.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah - not impressed at the time... even less impressed in retrospect with a little more experience the losing of students and other issues becomes more blah...
There was also some playing funny games with their race in order to preserve the "status" of their instructors vs another outside one(from Whistler private lesson area)...
and a lot of shenanigans with changing lessons to suit a single student who worked for a media group(over the wishes of 3 of the other students in the group)... (Even worse the stuff she did not want to do was specifically chosen because SHE had the problem with that issue)
and not speaking to a student who was not in control but was a friend of PJ's (I made sure to stay behind or waaaay ahead of that one). Other students were at risk from him and I would question he should have been grouped with the rest of the group.
OK if you want to be dragged down terrain that is really outside your comfort zone. You won't learn anything because you will be over-terrained but you will have bragging rights when you get back to the office.
Not what I'd expect if buying a ski improvement experience to be honest. However I may be better informed and/or more experienced at taking lessons than the average student.
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Oh and to give some perspective. In the group the second week two of the other students had been there the previous week also. They both stated they had learnt nothing the week before - but just been dragged down steep stuff. So that was also their perspective as students not just my observation of the group's improvement(or lack thereof)
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FAQ
