Walkie talkies; legal in France?

A snowHead

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I know the authorities in France don`t much like radar detectors, but do they allow UK hand held radios, and if so has anyone got a make that they would recommend ? I was going to write roger but knowing what you lot are like I wont. Thanks

A snowHead

the pokey little motorola talkabouts (or similar) are often seen on the hill but frankly they're rubbish, as once the person you're trying to get in contact with is over the ridge they tend not to work..phone or text surely...

then in courch @ peak weeks you get the "tarquin, tarquin, come in tarquin factor..." grrrrrr

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm not going to Courchevel this year...

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Never had any bother in the last 5 years - over!

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cstreat, The walkie talkie sets legally sold in the UK are in accordance with the pmr446 technical standard which is a European wide standard, so perfectly OK to use them in France. Smile

Some people buy or use american standard FRS or GMRS walkie talkies which operate on different frequencies, are illegal to use in Europe, and can cause interference to emergency services eg UK Fire Brigade Evil or Very Mad

, see this.

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Phone coverage has become pretty good in the Alps.

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They're legal but a) they make you look like a twerp; b) they're not very good; and c) you'll get a kicking if you manage to set them so they interfere with the ones the lift company uses. Apparently we had a bit of a problem with this last season.

You'd be better off with smartphones and free messaging.

After all it is free

Chinese company, Puxing, do a walkie talkie that you programme yourself. I've got a couple of px888s and programme them with pmr frequencies when we go to Europe and FRS frequencies when we go to the US. You can bump the power up to 4w as well, which seems to give four or five mile range on the slopes. Not strictly legal, but doesn't seem to bleed over and I doubt we'll get a knock on the door for it.

The only drawback to walkie talkies is the trigger happy tv effect - too many people turn the volume right up and insist on shouting into their handsets, which really isn't necessary and probably the reason so many people don't like them.

Fairly sure they've more than paid for themselves in what we've saved in international phone calls.

I already look like a twerp, so no worries there. So its smartphones all round for the kids, on top of 3V family pass for 8 days. Stone the crows

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cstreat, we bought a pair of Motorolas about 10yrs ago and reckon that they have paid for themselves in phone calls not made. Five years ago, phone calls were still unreliable, texts sometimes seemed to take ages to get through, 121 was sometimes difficult to access. That has all changed now, and we tend to use a combination of phone (for longer distances) and walkie talkie if closer.

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And if off piste - a lot of guides insist mobiles are switched off to avoid interference with ARVA.

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if you are going to do it properly then you need these http://www.bc-ltd.co.uk/two-way-analogues/kenwood-two-way-radios/licence-free/tk3301.html no race coach will ever be seen with anything less

cstreat, Of course you do know that in France they are called "talkie walkies" Laughing

You know it makes sense.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and, frankly, I wouldn't bother.

All legal licence-free radios have a very limited range - little more than line of sight.
There are only 16 channels so all you hear all day long is inane babble from other users - always in English!
They eat batteries so thats yet one more thing to feed every day.
The one time you need them the other user has inevitable forgotten to switch it on or simply left it on the dressing table.

If you want to persue this then I suggest you search this forum for PMR446 but IMV it's far simpler (and secure) to simply agree a rendezvous point if someone gets lost.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

cstreat, yes and no to comments like those from altis. A couple of things based on a lot of experience using them in the hills climbing and skiing.

1
we use text a lot when skiing - much better, since people don't hear their phones, it's cheap etc.

2
when climbing we don't. No signal, and you need urgent too and fro such as '...what the f's going on up there' when someone's on a long lead out and has been pfaffing for hours, the viz is zero and the wind is whipping all sound away. But even then, rope tugs can be better than attemping to answer a walkie talkie when you're really struggling. But they are a life saver (or major risk-reducer) on some days in some cricumstances).

3
So....they have limited application but are invaluable in certain circumstances.

4
They are great when you are tutoring tiny ones 1:1 in a limited ski area and you want to meet up with others looking after the other tiny ones - ie 'where the f are you...I'll wait here and you come to me or we'll both be going round these lifts forever....'

5
models differ hugely in their performance. all pmr446 are restricted to .5watts re broadcast power and so they are all the same. No they're not. The antennae affect reception, as does signal processing on board. For example, the cheapest motorola don't seem to go round corners and are strictly line of sight. The really heavy big motorola - the semi professional - are better but still line of sight. The kenwoods which CEM highlights are brilliant - but expensive and heavy, and I wouldn't give them to kids. HOWEVER - the very small and light mid range motorola (you can get good second hand sets on fleabay) are absolutely brilliant. They DO go round corners, and pickup and discriminate very weak signals.

6
I give them out to youngsters so you can contact them on long runs when they get separated - we tell them to stick close and keep a beady on eye on them, but occasionally parent-child pairs get split up and on the same crowded runs they can help with quick link up - but text does just as well, really, IF you have a signal.

7
The signal thing is important - too many people are getting into trouble in the hills and relying on 'I can just call in the services' which is placing a terrible load on mountain rescue - ie it's instilling bad discipline. But the converse is also true - people getting into genuine difficulty and then finding they have no signal.

conclusion - pmr446 standard is legal in EU and CH; they have their uses, we DO use them in anger and they are very useful but in specific contexts, they are heavy for kids and they need to be familiar with use, radios should not replace good discipline on the hill (that sounds really right wing but it's important) and be very selective with sets - they all meet the pmr446 standard but perform VERY differently, with the small mid range motorola being objectively very good and the right size for kids.

A snowHead

A snowHead

achilles, given the cost of SIM plus credit, it might be cheaper just to send text from a UK phone. PAYG deals here: http://www.sfr.fr/mobile/offres-detail/prepaid_la_carte_simonly?vue=0001md quite cheap at the momet especailly of you buy online.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks all; any idea of motorola model no. mid rangevalais2, ? From some accounts, Motrola "don`t make `em like they use to"

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"Stupid Question from Mac" time again...

... why would a walkie talkie be illegal...?!

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I am surprised by the opinions from the non-users of PMR446.

I once dropped the wife at one end of Ski Welt at Ellmau and I skied to the other end at Soll to pick up the car. I could speak to her from the car 5 miles away.

There was also one time I left her in a flat in Bourg St Maurice while I was skiing in Les Arcs. We could communicate in anywhere on the mountain as long as I was facing BSM side.

PMR446 can also be spoken to by a group of users to each other absolutely free.

After all it is free

This OFCOM document identifies the requirements for legal use of radios on the pmr446 band in the UK. Note that in addition to the well established 8 analogue (narrow band fm) channels that most of the pmr446 equipment uses, they have recently allocated additional frequencies for an additional up to 16 digital pmr446 channels. These digital channels offer benefits such as clearer communication, the ability to scramble the conversation, and to send text information. Some models are now on the market that have both the old analogue pmr446 channels plus the additional digital ones, but they cost a lot more at present eg this.

Was issued with a Motorola radio by the mountain guide in Chile this year. First time I've used one of these and thought it worked well and there was still loads of battery life after 2 weeks of use.

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We found them most useful when someone was out of sight and detached from the group. Probably wouldn't have bothered otherwise. Although, fair enough, someone within line of sight could still be out of sight.

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You know it makes sense.

that would be neutrinos?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

walkie talkie's are best used when driving down in covoy, they turn a diesel mondeo into a big american truck instantly! Cool

A snowHead

pam w,

Those particle beams need a circular or straight tunnel to travel through and mega and mega watts of electrical power (Torus machine) to keep it in a correct alignment. If you do come into contact with it you will know what nuclear fusion is all about.

A snowHead

cstreat, OK here are the models

I use some XTN446s (in fact we have a big box of them plus loads of accessories such as lapel mikes so you keep the radio in a rucsack) but they are rather big and bulky and actuallly aren't that much better than the T6222s, which are a classic PMR446 model:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorola-T6222-Talkabout-Radio-Walkie-Talkies-Yellow-/200671201392?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item2eb8ef8870#ht_948wt_1330

These really do punch above their weight, and I have good reception on these in the most surprising circumstances. The replacement for this was the XTL446 and they were just as good - I've got a pair and they are really excellent. There is now an XTR to replace this and I haven't used them - worthwhile going on to the anorack-y PMR446 sites to get some reviews..try this

http://www.transmission1.co.uk/tag/motorola/

hope you get sorted

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

pam w, ...cosmic rays do....there are big measurement stations which prove it ... they go straight through as if the Earth were not there....

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Some years ago I ran an experiment with a pair of radio data modules. These operate in a band that is licence-free for data only - and at 173MHz, is the lowest such frequency band available in the UK. The transmitter pumps out a mere 10mW yet, parked on a hill near Warrington with a 1/4 wave monopole and a descent ground plane, I could hear it loud and clear in Halewood perhaps 14 miles away. Less impressive was the fact that I couldn't hear a thing while still in Warrington only 1/2 mile away!

Yes, if you're tied together with 50m of rope or you're following one another down the hill then PMR446 is going to work reliably. But if you're in a typical ski party that's batting about the mountain then someone can be out of range within seconds.

It all depends on what's in the way and the higher the frequency, the more important that is. By all means experiment but don't expect, or worse, rely on it working all the time. Apart from the problems mentioned above also bear in mind that, if they're for children's use, they'll overhear all sorts of conversations.

If you want to try some radios out then, although Motorola is the big name, you might also want to look out for Intek:
http://www.thunderpole.co.uk/intek.htm
And if you want some cheap, idiot-proof, receive only radios look out their RP600:
http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/intek-rp600-tour-guide--motorcycle-instructor-voice-pager-1701-p.asp

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Thanks; some really good points made there that I had`nt thought about. 10-4 skiing buddys!

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After all it is free

To see how obstacles can affect radio propagation check out the Fresnel Zone and Diffraction:

Bit more explanation (but orrientated to 2.4GHz): http://www.swisswireless.org/wlan_calc_en.html

By my calcs, with a PMR446 transmitter and receiver pair 5km apart, the radius (R) of the Fresnel Zone is 50m in the middle. If anything intrudes in this region then the signal will be reduced.

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At the end of the day neutrinos have little to do with walkie talkies which this thread is about.
Transmissions on the public licence free frequencies are wavelengths of less than a metre, generally, radio waves won't pass through objects thicker than a few wavelengths, obviously power dependant. The common, e.g. 446Mhz walkie talkies will have problems with more than few trees with a wavelength of about 1/2 metre and 1/2 watt power.

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Walkie talkies; legal in France?

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