 Poster: A snowHead
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I usually manage to get a good deal on my ski holiday package by shopping around a bit. The Xmas 2011 trip is no exception, see you in Montgenevre over a beer and I'll try not to bore you with the great deal I got 
Yet that's only half of the story isn't it? for years now, I've passively booked my ski rental on line (or taken my own skis along) and I've usually bought my lift passes either on the bus or in-resort.
Of course the economy is biting hard are all of our heels (well, most of us anyway, especially having just moved house) and I binned my old Salamon SX90 ski boots (don't laugh  they were very comfy!) My old xScream 9s are totally threadbare, so I've decided to rent gear from now on, at least until I find another unbeatable deal to buy kit. Of course there are three of us (two sons and me, their dad) so it triples the potential savings.
Anyway, I started to wonder whether I could save a few more squid towards an evening out in resort 
I've searched around the forums and haven't yet found a thread which covers the 'relative economics' of rental and lift tickets on-line, vs off-line. Grateful for any links.
So snowheads, please advise. Where are the best value places to rent ski equipment? on the internet before we travel? or in resort? are the discounts on the internet real or are the deals given by chalets and tour operators even better? Or is the absolutely nothing in it? I also wonder if its better to just walk in to the nearest ski shop to my chalet on the basis that its better than traipsing across the town/village, walking past four ski shops before I get to my own? Do I really save any money by doing this?
And then there is the lift tickets thing? Is it really any better to book ahead on the internet or buy from the rep on the transfer bus? or is it simply more convenient to not have to queue up at the lift ticket office.
Any thoughts, comments and especially 'hard data' would be gratefully received.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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accel, I don't have a lot of experience of either renting or TO equipment but I wouldn't rate the latter, the few times I did it. You'll generally get better gear on rental - don't go for the cheapest level - and by booking ahead online, rather than walking in off the street. In our local shop, where visiting friends have rented, the difference was considerable though that was with Skimium and they don't seem to have any shops in Montgenevre in their scheme. It should be easy enough to find where the rental shops are in relation to your accommodation.
If you've time I'd buy a lift pass online in advance - queues on busy mornings can be very slow, and frustrating when you went to get on the slopes. Some people have reported poor deals from TOs - but it's very easy to compare their prices with the resort website. I'd buy from the TO (PROVIDED the price is right) rather than queue up in the morning.
The internet makes this kind of research very easy, but it'll be tour operator and resort specific.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Watch for the exchange rate from the TO
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I don't think there's normally much in it for passes, as long as the TO offers a good exchange rate, but kit hire is different. Last year I prebooked, and the family we were with didn't, and they paid almost double. The only downside is making sure you've prebooked at a shop near your accommodation.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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michael, thanks for a very useful 'hard data' comparison on ski rental which helps a lot.
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thanks for the tip holidayloverxx.
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Online always ime, in theory you ought to be able to bargain a bit in person as you can walk away, but I don't find it works in practice - we almost always prebook online now, savings generally around 30%. We've never yet had total fail although once or twice pickings in the shop have been a bit thin and I've wished we had used next door etc.
If you can't work out where your chalet is, go for close to your main lift instead - almost as easy for drop off/pick up - you just ski to it with a pair of shoes in hand in on the last morning and walk home in comfort after your last run of the day.
aj xx
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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accel, in a small resort the shop location may not be a big deal. I've not been to Montgenevre so can't comment on that though.
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Skis: definitely rent online beforehand - with alpinresort.com or equivalent - there's an extra Snowheads discount for that one at least. TO will be charging full whack. I booked with Ski Total who were offering BOGOF on ski rental, but not if the chalet was discounted. So I said to them in the nicest possible way I'm not going to pay your outrageous prices, I'm sure you'll make a profit on it even at BOGOF, so why not give me a BOGOF deal too. Well maybe we do, but you're having no such luck they said and they told me to go direct to a shop instead.
Lift passes - definitely a bonus to have it delivered to you at breakfast time, and IME (which admittedly isn't that extensive) TOs don't charge you more than the lift operators. Doubtless they're getting a discount, but I guess it's worth putting it back into their businesses if it keeps prices down for next year. And its convenient.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Accel - I should have said, my 30% is 'hard data' backed - my group is large and every year at least a few don't pre book and pay the price  In 2009 it was me - we got _close_ to the prebooked price by shopping around, but were still easily 10% over and we had to try 3 places to find that, and even then we were lucky it was a small quiet place - in les menuires we got nowhere, non pre book was a good 35% higher. FWIW this is france only, in austria we found it cheaper to shop around, but we were in a valley town, not piste side resort. aj xx
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TOs usually charge the same euro price for lift passes so you're no worse off than buying at the LPO if they charge you in euros and you're usually better off (unless the exchange rate is poor but they will tell you the rate there and then) if they use their own exchange rate and charge you in the UK with GBP as you're not paying card charges. Benefit obviously being that they get delivered for you the next morning or even the evening before if you're lucky.
Ski school is the same, you'll get charged the standard price that you would do if you pitched up but with the exchange rate costs as with the lift pass.
Hire equipment varies but they don't actually have their own kit in most cases and will use the local supplier that gives the best commission. They will just match up the levels that they sell to the local suppliers level and then sell you the kit, . The price depends on the TO and how aggressively they have managed their contracts. There should be some discount, up to 25% in some cases, on the just turn up prices. This puts in it in the same ballpark as the online prices although not quite as good as if they are doing bogof deals etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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a.j. thanks. That brings the score to 2.0 in favour of internet booking of rentals. At least in France anyway...
I reckon swadster might be able to add one, especially if he comes out of the closet and admits that he might be 'in the business'
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
We've never yet had total fail although once or twice pickings in the shop have been a bit thin and I've wished we had used next door etc.
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I used Skimium to book for a visiting friend last year (he needed enormous boots and wanted to be sure they'd be available) and only had to pay a very small deposit when I made the booking - so wouldn't have been a problem to just go somewhere else if they'd not had decent stuff.
I think that in this day and age if booking with a TO who wouldn't tell me the exact location of the chalet I'd be a bit dubious - not because of ski hire shops, but because of wanting to know exactly how far it is to the lifts.
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Poster: A snowHead
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James_the_last. I'm in full agreement and I like your negotiation approach.
Yes, its definitely a boon to have the tickets delivered first morning. I guess I was just wondering how much we pay for the pay the delivery. From swadsters comment it seems that it might be a 'freebie'. That would be nice... erm, whats 'IME'
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam, from what I've seen, none of the TOs give the exact location for their chalets (i.e. down to the street name) I don't THINK its just down to one 'dodgy one'.
My sceptical side says that they don't want me to know because I can then book the nearest rental shop instead of letting them send me and mine for a trek to the one they decide on. One the other hand, this is a package tour I suppose, so I can't be too harsh on them  I'm just questioning whether its worth going for the TO 'sell up' if they play the game in that way.
Some nice marketing person from a TO will pop up now and say they don't want to put unnecessary clutter on the chalet web page and that's why they don't include the street name.
BTW, has anyone EVER seen a street name on a TO website or TO booking documentation for a chalet? Perhaps its one of those 'unwritten rules'....
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| snowskisnow wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Watch for the exchange rate from the TO |
Oh yes .....In these hard times,everything will be a potential revenue stream,and passes & ski hire will be an easy one.......They will have no vested interest where you get your kit (unless they have a side deal with Pierre around the corner).... |
I agree with the first part of your statement, but perhaps the second part contradicts it.
Perhaps 'Pierre around the corner' might be 'ski set' and under the terms of their agreement they might say "if you want the extra discount on all the business you do with us, we need you to help us with our supply chain issues by actively getting your reps to send your clients to the shops that we tell you to send them to (which are the ones that have stock, and we know this because we monitor and forecast each shop stock levels dynamically on our computerised stock system), even if those shops aren't the closest ones to their chalets.
If you were ski set, you'd do that wouldn't you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I wouldn't expect them to put exact details on a general website (any more than any individual or commercial owner of a holiday cottage would ever do that) but I WOULD expect them to be able to tell me once I'd booked and paid.
After all, people might decide to drive to the place - then they'd have to be told, wouldn't they?
I don't think their reluctance is anything to do with ski equipment discounts - more likely so you can't use google maps to prove that the only way that the nearest lift is "5 minutes" away is if you regularly run sprints in ski boots.
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True, they might decide to drive. I've only done this myself once in France, to Belle Plagne and that was after booking direct with a french company who were very forthcoming about providing the address (I've done the drive in Bavaria and Canada but that's different). The rest of the time I've personally taken the 'easy' route and gone with the package transfers. So, let's perhaps see if anyone who reads this thread has ever received an address for the chalet on their booking materials (from a UK TO).
I think your point about proving the distance is yet another excellent reason for the 'unwritten rule of excluded information' and it makes great sense. Then again, is it ALSO to do with ski shop supply chains? I certainly don't think it's mutually exclusive.
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| accel wrote: |
If you were ski set, you'd do that wouldn't you? |
Quite probably...but I'm not and,generally,niether are the chalet staff in my experience?Yes,its quite possible they could 'try' to steer you in one direction,and its down to the individual to decide why?Good local advice/commission/backhanders whatever? Its your call.Do some research,get the price range/quality of kit sorted.Speak to the chalet about locations etc...and then make your choice.Frankly,you're not going to save a fortune whatever you do,but you could end up with better kit or greater convenience.I'm not familier with Montgenevre,so cant make specific comments;but most resorts have the good,average and 'wouldn't go near' ski rental shops.In my book,there is no such thing as too much information....research is king 
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| Quote: |
ever received an address for the chalet on their booking materials
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they probably wouldn't put it on their booking materials - but they definitely know where their damn chalets are, and if they wouldn't tell me before i signed on the dotted line then I wouldn't sign. There can't be a single good reason why they wouldn't, can there?
The only times I've had gear rented as part of a package from a TO they were both "in house" operations - not being sent to some local ski shop (which would probably have had far better quality gear!).
The only worse gear I've had was when we borrowed skis from the people we were renting a house from, in Chichester - they had a cellar full and told us to help ourselves. They were pretty grim, but with the great advantage of being free!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The only time I went with a TO and they tried to sell passes on the bus, they wanted the £ price that the passes were in € in the resort. I didn't bite, but a lot of the other punters did.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Based on deermans reps trick, I just worked out the for my vacation.
At E231 each, three of us would cost E693 which is (at current rates) £591.70.
So, the rep would have made a hundred quid extra just for the three of us.
Assuming that half of the (52 seater) bus went for the deal, that could be in the region of £800 extra pocket money for that rep.
Phew, nice work if you can get it.... but quite a racket too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Indeed in the business. Come to La Plagne and buy me a beer to find out who. Some TOs are will fleece you and some won't. You get what you pay for.
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In my experience, booking ski hire in advance on the internet produces good savings but not always good equipment. I suspect shops may give you their older stock if you have got a big discount, but it's impossible to tell. Buying lift passes from the TO on the transfer bus is usually fine, but to be safe take enough local currency to pay and check the cost of the pass on the lift operator's website so that you know the TO is not charging you extra. Last year, for the first time in my experience, it was cheaper to pay the TO in advance (in sterling) for the lift pass because the Swiss franc had got more expensive after they had fixed the brochure price. I asked for the Ski Total BOGOF offer last year but it only applied to boots and skis, not to skis only. The only time I have tried to rent skis direct from the tour operator they had run out after I had queued for nearly an hour, so we had to go to a resort shop and pay full whack. Never again!
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You know it makes sense.
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While the rep undoubtedly gets some commission, they won't get anywhere near all of it.
But there really is no hard and fast rule regarding using TO for lift passes and equipment.
If you are very lucky with exchange rate movements, and the TO advance booking price is close to the in-resort price when you book, then you might just get the lift passes cheaper that way. But IME (which means In My Experience to answer your earlier query) the advance booking TO prices for lift passes are rarely anywhere near as good as the correct price taking into account current exchange rates.
And on the coach, remember that again, they are getting commission (hence their eagerness to sell them). They get a discount for buying in bulk, so even if they charge you exactly the same, they are making a profit. But their exchange rate is not usually as good as you would get if you paid in Euros, so don't let them charge you in GPB, unless your card has a hefty foreign currency surcharge.
If you want to be sure regarding teh cost of equipment hire, you could always try ringing one or two of the shops (phone numbers should be easily available online) and finding out what their prices are for "walk-in", then compare those to what you can find online or via the TO. It will vary by resort.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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got my ski rental from Twinner in Montgenevre
booked it online and save 30% and as not tied to tour op, picked them up as soon as we arrived, so if you were really keen to ski you could have bought a half day lift pass and skied the first afternoon
as for life pass i got best deal with tour op in UK was going to buy it of them anyway as it seamed cheapest and then got a special deal when i went to pay
becaus the euro was strong when we went the in resort lift pass price at the loft company far exceeded the original brochure price in Neilson, and they were honoring them
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Poster: A snowHead
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Great info, thanks for advising.
By my reckoning Swadster just made it 3.0 in favour of advance internet booking for ski gear rentals, based on price alone.
jehus point about gear quality in relation to discounts raises a concern. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any more light to shed on it.
alex henry - some very pertinent points which has caused me to re-consider my whole approach. Previously I avoided taking Euros, perhaps just having a few for cafes and bars. Now I'm going to see what rates I can get in advance (between now and flying on 19th dec .. woo hooo ) and take cash to pay for lift tickets and gear rentalks instead of just letting the plastic take the strain.
The tip about Twinner in Montgenevre is very useful, thanks cockerhoop. Now if I could just find out where chalet ourson is (which road), and then check that Twinner isn't the other end of town, I could be in a position to check the best deals.
BTW, my research last night showed that although ski set shops are ubiquitous, Intersport prices are 30% better (after discounts) and they give more info about the skis they rent.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| accel wrote: |
| That would be nice... erm, whats 'IME' |
"In my experience."
The other thing that has always intrigued me is what quantifies what kit you get for your money. How can you tell if you have hired a "black" or a "red" ski? Many ski shops have a complete pile of different skis, in different shapes and sizes. Often a red ski is last year's black ski with the top picture scuffed... so who cares?
I do have a feeling (completely without evidence or anything else) that a shop may look at what you pay and give you something suitable. So if you hired a black online for €50 I don't think you necessarily get as "good" (whatever that means) a ski as if you had hired a black in the shop at €100. How would you ever know? And indeed how do you ever know if you're paying full "black" price in the shop that you're getting what you want...
I'm know I've seen a ski shop giving out identical skis to people irrespective of what they pay!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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dont get your ski hire on the transfer bus unless they guarantee the shop is near your accomm. Rookie error for me hiking half way accross resort to get our kit for our first ski hol...always a booger if you have kids stuff to carry aswell. I look around online and check the resport maps to make sure I get a shop close to the accomm.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| dont get your ski hire on the transfer bus unless they guarantee the shop is near your accomm. |
Excellent point. And in a large village where the TO has several chalets make the rep show you on the map... Oh yes, and if you've hired over the 'net, you can *guarantee* that the rep won't be able to tell you where your shop is...
As for chalet locations, www.alpineanswers.co.uk is very good at putting them on a map. They don't have OP's chalet listed though, sorry.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Off to LDA at Christmas and have saved ourselves over £100 on the TO lift pass price. We're travelling with a 15 yo and a 12 yo. Through the TO the 15 yo counts as an adult and would be charged the adult lift pass rate. By booking online direct with the lift company we've bought a family pass at a considerable saving. Also worth noting that the lift company have a 'youth rate' so the teenager isn't charged at the full adult rate. That might be worth checking for you.
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"Lift passes - definitely a bonus to have it delivered to you at breakfast time"
That depends on your time of arrival, if you come early and want to ski that afternoon then get your own lift pass and pay for 1 afternoon.
Another thing to consider is that in some resorts your lift pass is activated at 3pm the day before, 1.5 hrs of lfree skiing , not much good if it is being delivered at breakfast the next morning.
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accel, are you saying that if you telephone the people who run that chalet they won't tell you where it is?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I always tend to end up using ski set - their site is great for locating where all their shops are around resort
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Montgenevre isn't a particularly big place, so you'd only have a long walk if you were extremely unlucky and ended up being based in one corner of the village with the hire shop in the other corner.
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FAQ
although in fairness they did try their best, but the chalet seems to be filled by Crystal this year and there is no address on their website. The fastrack description says it's opposite Chalet Etoile des Neiges, but guess what? that one isn't marked on the town map either 
I found the same lack of markings in 2010 in Meribel and in 2008 in Chatel.
Years ago,en route to LDA,the rep was adamant she did not know the exchange rate,but was sure 'it would be OK'.Yea right 