I don't know why this is so seldom taught as it is a very useful technique for a controlled entry off a cornice or broken cornice. It is especially useful if entering a narrow couloir or very steep slope where you don't want lots of speed.
Does it have a name? I assume it must.
Face the edge at right angles with tips over the edge. Stick pole tips in the snow near the edge. Now push off and as you go over the edge leave one pole in and pivot around it, landing on the slope below at right angles to the slope. You will have no forward momentum (which is very useful in a narrow couloir) and if you have landed right you will stop almost dead. Err on the side of leaning too much into the slope on landing (if you fall inwards just push yourself straight up again (very easy on a steep slope). Obviously this way you land as close to the top of the slope as possible.
I am surprised so few of even good off piste skiers I've skied with know it. It may sound hairy but is actually very easy (just practice it at least once on a small edge where it doesn't matter so you have confidence that it will work when it does).
I'm not sure how big a cornice you could do it off but for an awkward smaller edge it is ace.
(This is another technique you will not get from race training )
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snowball wrote:
Face the edge at right angles with tips over the edge. Stick pole tips in the snow near the edge. Now push off and as you go over the edge leave one pole in and pivot around it, landing on the slope below at right angles to the slope. You will have no forward momentum (which is very useful in a narrow couloir) and if you have landed right you will stop almost dead. Err on the side of leaning too much into the slope on landing (if you fall inwards just push yourself straight up again (very easy on a steep slope). Obviously this way you land as close to the top of the slope as possible.
Sounds a bit wussy.
Just leap straight in.
And do a backflip if there's space available, like there is at Corby's Couloir.
(This is another technique you will not get from race training )
Is it a technique or a tactic? Sounds like "when you start your run, go straight and immediately do a half turn to get in to your rhythm". A tip I occasionally offer people when I'm teaching at Hemel
rob@rar, ^^ yes, sounds more a 'tactic' than technique..
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
does this not mean you enter the top with huge force on to the snowpack?
How many people really know how to properly ski-cut the top of a slope a release a controlled sluff/avalanche. I try sometimes, but i use it also to get to a safe area.
and what if the cornice collapses around you?
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar, well I'm talking about something done entirely in mid air, which makes it rather different.
OliC, yes, you'd have to be sure the slope was stable. I've so far generally used it on firm snow and broken cornices..
I was first shown this technique just before entering a couloir with a broken cornice. Only a relatively short vertical drop but the couloir was only about 7 or 8 ft wide from rock wall to rock wall for its top section. I'm afraid I don't straight-line couloirs. I'm just a reasonably good holiday skier.
Well, I don't care what you call it but I found it a good tip. Not sure why people find it necessary to deny it is a technique. I find most people don't know how to deal with this sort of situation. Of course, if you take off at even a slight angle to the slope it doesn't work because you have sideways momentum which makes you hit the side of the couloir..
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snowball wrote:
rob@rar, well I'm talking about something done entirely in mid air, which makes it rather different.
It makes it massively more difficult, no doubt about that. But I don't think it makes it different. Ultimately it's about controlling the rotation of your skis without excessive twisting of your body. The fact that it's done in air above an exceptionally steep slope ups the level of challenge significantly, but it's still about twisting your skis...
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
So you need to control your speed right, thats either by side slipping the cornice in an attempt to keep the speed down or its done with one big turn/skid after you've dropped in. I'm assuming that this is a skied, vertical cornice wall and a steep narrow couloir that can't be straight lined.
The risk here is loss of control leading to a fall, so you could be a bit loose and ski off the cornice with speed but then you have more to do once in the couloir to pull things back together. Many people seem to drop in and put in a turn only to over rotate and end up sliding down backwards. Not much fun! I've personally dropped in and over cooked it a little and ended up doing a side ways cart wheel affair which was less than fun and pretty painful.
It depends greatly on your skiing and how technically and physically strong you are, even with all the confidence in the word it really does just come back to these basics.
The key elements:
Strong posture and body management, solid core, good strong hand position, wide stance, excellent balance to keep you centred, positive attitude, maintain ski snow contact.
I'm sure you all have a heap of other idea's out there but this would seem to cover the basics.
Oh, you could always rappel in if is extra steep!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
OliC wrote:
How many people really know how to properly ski-cut the top of a slope a release a controlled sluff/avalanche. I try sometimes, but i use it also to get to a safe area.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skierchris, well yes, if the the broken cornice is a shade off vertical you can side-slip it. If there is room to do a turn you are in a situation different to the one I described but you still might consider it as an option.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DB, Jeez, what a 24 carat plonker eh? Hope for his (and clearly theirs) sake nobody was lower down the slope below him. Should be banned from skiing for such madness........if this were possible?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Markymark29,
looked a lot like a patroller and how else are you going to flush out a sketchy wind loaded slope if you're not going to chuck explosives.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
fatbob, Fair point, if it is a patroller thats OK on the basis thats alls clear below
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
snowball wrote:
skierchris, well yes, if the the broken cornice is a shade off vertical you can side-slip it. If there is room to do a turn you are in a situation different to the one I described but you still might consider it as an option.
Well yes, good to have lots of options I think there 'Snowball' a jump turn as you described is a great one for the tool box especially if the snow conditions are looking tricky.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DB wrote:
OliC wrote:
How many people really know how to properly ski-cut the top of a slope a release a controlled sluff/avalanche. I try sometimes, but i use it also to get to a safe area.
Thats cool ski patrol footage, think he almost bit off more than he could chew!
The fracture line was much further back from where he was cutting!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Isn't that one of the basic things that you learn about cornices? The fracture line is very often further back, so even though you are standing a couple of meters back from the actual cornice, when it goes you get dragged over the edge as well. That's what I got told when I did my avi course many moons ago...
Isn't that one of the basic things that you learn about cornices? The fracture line is very often further back, so even though you are standing a couple of meters back from the actual cornice, when it goes you get dragged over the edge as well. That's what I got told when I did my avi course many moons ago...
Maybe no one told this guy?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Steilhang wrote:
Isn't that one of the basic things that you learn about cornices? The fracture line is very often further back, so even though you are standing a couple of meters back from the actual cornice, when it goes you get dragged over the edge as well.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
He did place himself very well for the eventuality of the whole thing going, though.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I looked at those folks trying to get into Corbetts - hells bells! why anyone would want to do that for pleasure is beyond me!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Corbett's is a particularly bad example of "brand" attraction. Most people are only throwing themselves down it for tourist bragging rights as IIRC it gets so much traffic the snow is rarely exceptional plus I guess some locals who do it just cos they can.
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It was in a very bad icy state when I was there with melt crevasses by the rock walls and nobody seemed to be skiing it or even looking down it (we did look but didn't ski it either). The attraction (and difficulty) is the rather scary entry - otherwise it is just an ordinary gully. I don't think you could use my technique on Corbetts anyway, it is too far down off the cornice. Similarly I ski Easy Gully from the side, not off the cornice - it is much the easiest way.
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Poster: A snowHead
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