 Poster: A snowHead
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My faithful 2002 vintage H&M salopettes (yes, I'm the slightly eccentric man who still skis in salopettes rather than sporting the rather more modern 'pant') have finally given up the ghost, so I'm in the market for some new legwear. A cursory glance at my options suggests that I can hit the bargain-basement for c£50, go upmarket for £400 or more, or land somewhere in the middle.
With the aid of a decent base layer, my ancient H&M specials kept me warm and dry through bitter cold (-25C with howling winds in Breckenridge), torrential rain (Tignes), and heavy blizzards (too many resorts to count). I'm minded to believe that I should revisit the bargain basement, as it served me so well last time - a strategy which has the obvious merit of leaving me with extra substance to waste on riotous living.
Many of you presumably buy expensive pants. Why? What benefits can I expect to enjoy from a pricey pair that might possibly outweigh the pleasure gained from a case or three of wine or a few evenings in a posh restaurant?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are you happily married and do you play golf?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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as long as they have good waterproofing (at least 10,000mm) and good breathability I'm not sure you can go too far wrong.
I have a pair of pants and a pair of salopettes.
my pants are for skiing in the fridges in the UK and for sledging with the neices and nephews.
My Salomon salopettes are for proper skiing, unless its a v warm day when I revert to my pants.
Both pairs are well vented, both came in at under £100 each (in the sale) and the reason I paid that is because they match my jacket and helmet and look good, I'm not one for plain black pants or anything I consider 'boring'.
But, as yours are 10 years old almost, I'd buy a pair for that reason only 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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my old trepass pants did fairly well in most conditions.. i went more upmkt in the middle with some poncy contiental brand and they where good as well, more importantly they had a slight slimming effect .. i also have a pair from serfanic which havnt been tested in poor conditions yet , but they do some gloouriously larish colours
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Jonny Jones, OP Yes you do, KJUS fantastic quality named after greatest racer of his time. Has that great Je ne sais quoi that people do not know how to pronounce it. From chalet de pierres to Le Bel Air to the Spar in Tignes they will speak for themselves to the cognoscenti, which is what skiing is all about really.
Mr speaker I must declare an interest in the ski industry.
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Well if you were happy with the bargain basement then why not go the same route?
In my case - I destroyed two or three pairs of cheap ones (a pair literally came apart just from skiing), and I used to sweat like hell in them. So I got some Gore-tex shell ones and feel much happier.
I also ski quite a bit offpiste, not always in ideal conditions, and I really appreciate the waterproofness.
That said, the two pairs I bought over the last years were a) on a pro deal and b) on a 50% off sale, so I spent far less than £400 on either of them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Near Les Carroz, sat on a slow lift, in torrential sleet with a very wet behind, the thought crossed my mind, that you get what you pay for.
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Expensive kit makes you betterer*...
*may not be true.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jonny Jones, I think it depends on how often you ski, when and where you ski.
If you do a week a year in March and don't go seriously off-piste then I'd go bargain basement.
Ski 20-30 days a year in all conditions and are out in zero visibility, off-piste above 3500m and I'd go expensive.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My current pair - Colombia - were £10 "nearly new" ex-hire. Two seasons so far.
Buy the wine....
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So expensive pants might make my bum look smaller or more colourful, might stop it from being displayed to the world by accident, and might prevent unintended moisture either from within (yuk) or without.
I had none of these problems with my old gear apart from a definite lack of colour, and I never give up skiing in bad weather. Maybe I just got lucky.
Any more benefits with expensive pants? Can I expect to suddenly become a babe magnet, perhaps, if I have the right pair? Will other skiers look at me with reverence? Can I expect to appear in tour operator brochures?
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You know it makes sense.
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Expensive stuff can often be quite a bit lighter... Meaning a lot more room for taking other stuff away with you, but again if youre happy with the cheap stuff and dont need to cut down on the weight of your stuff id go bargain again 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Have CEM or smallzookeeper got a pant fitter to inform?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My view, for standard piste/just off piste skiing is you should spend money on the pants, save on the jacket. The pants are likely to come into contact with snow/wetness far more often than the jacket.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spiky1013, I like light as it compensates for the beer belly. That's a solid justification that I need to take into account.
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If you ski in the Alps then most of the time you don't actually need expensive kit at all. A lot of the time a pair of jeans and and Cagoule will provide sufficient protection aganist the sun and the cold.
However, better properly fitting kit will make you feel better and if it does rain or the wind blows hard then a decent Gore tex jacket with a really good hood and some equally good good over trousers are a god send.
If you're going to ski in the UK then really good UK suitable, technical kit is essential.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Its about want and need, you "need" a new pair of ski bottoms, you may "want" super duper gor-tex with vents and zips and shinny bits......or you may not.
If you are going to hate the cheap ones (after 10 years in the same pair unlikley) then splash some cash.
If spending the money makes you miserable then go for the cheap ones. It all depends on the type of person you are, there is no wrong or right and thankfully differant things make differant people happy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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This is just my opinion,
I have worked the last 2 seasons in Canada BC and have 2 pairs of pants that i paid no more than £50 for in TKmax (each pair). They are ok brands and are 10000mm waterproof. However some days on the Northshore mountais we had non stop rain when 10000mm wasnt enough however we soon learnt that if you go to anygood camping shop they have tent waterproofer which have to say works a treat on ski gear used it on my jacket and pants and each treatment lasted about 2 weeks continues use 6 days a week 7 hours a day of use and they were 99% waterproof in all conditions.
So to answer your question (this is my opinion) you dont need to spend a fortune on ski gear. Find somehting that fits, is comfy and you are happy with. Go to you local outdoor/camping shop and buy a some tent waterproof spray or paint on waterproofer and treat your ski gear with it. Also bear in mind if you buy expensive gear and you end up teraing,cutting or slitting it you are going to be pretty unhappy however with cheap ish ski gear its not going to be such a problem.
I know some people are going to disagree with what i have just said but as mentioned these are my opinions and worked for me.
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Tent waterproofing surely means the breathability goes?
Sounds to me as if under the circumstances you describe you would have been better spending more than £50.... (though of course I'm not going to suggest that there is always a direct correlation between price and effectiveness.)
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Actually, different people handles weather differently. Some people can ski in the under-shirt when others were bundle up in down jackets.
So, if you're the sort that doesn't feel cold nor wet, you don't have to spend for the extra dry and warmth anyway. Save the money for that technical base layer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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abc, I'm with you on that base layer. I'm old enough to remember cotton t-shirts being the standard base layer, and the first time I invested in a technical fabric I was gobsmacked by the difference in comfort. I was wondering whether I was missing something similarly jaw-dropping by cheapskating on my outer layer, but it doesn't sound as if I particularly am.
Guess I need to spend the cash on booze, then!
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Jonny Jones, I think about it this way:
base layer: moister control
middle layer: insulation
outer layer: water/wind proofing
Some outer layer combines insulation and water/wind proofing. That's about it.
If your old cheapskate one are waterproof and windproof anyway. It's almost as good as it need to be.
(A lot of expensive middle and outer layer also advertise moister control. In my opinion, that's not needed for the comfort of a day skier. You can have a damp insulation layer without feeling the wet, as long as your base layer is moisture wicking. The only time you care about staying absolutely dry is when you're going touring, and you don't have a way to dry it off overnight. That's when you pay the big buck for the best quality of anything!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Surely 'pant' is something a dog does and what you need are 'pants'? Unless of course you have one leg. And yes, I have seen a one-legged skier and he was brilliant!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Surely 'pant' is something a dog does and what you need are 'pants'? Unless of course you have one leg. And yes, I have seen a one-legged skier and he was brilliant! |
Very well said there.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Surely 'pant' is something a dog does and what you need are 'pants'? Unless of course you have one leg. |
You are completely right, and I'd say the same thing if I weren't already aghast at the violation of our language by the unnecessary introduction of vulgar transatlanticisms. I must admit that I am a little worried that pants, regardless of how expensive they are, might leave my lower legs feeling a little chilly; and I have further concerns about how draughty the Y-front might prove.
But the word is definitely 'Pant' on every label on every store in South Wales. And it's definitely 'Pant' on the undoubted authority of every manufacturer's web site. Even more worrying than the thought of skiing in my underwear is the thought of skiing in half my underwear. I hope I can find some broad minded ski resorts to accommodate my future state of partial undress.
Can anyone find me a supplier of ski trousers instead? I might be inclined to give them my custom regardless of the price or quality of their offering as a way of supporting British English and plain old-fashioned common sense.
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You know it makes sense.
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I've paid the sharp end of a few hundred for ski trousers a few times. 1 time they were awful, 2nd time they did the job, 3rd time they seem bombproof. Buy Scandinavian.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Having opened up many pairs of Salopettes for alteration, my findings about breathability is that the wicking effect of the material is in the insulation, not the outer layer, which has a waterproof coating laminated to the fabric. This does not let anything out, water or air. Combined with sealed seams, you are actually in an airtight/watertight bag with just the lining to stop you feeling the moisture. Natural ventilation occurs at the waist and lower legs and any pockets you have open, but not through the fabric itself. The odd thing is, my expensive Gortex jacket (which was a gift) has the same backing to the outer fabric as the cheaper Salopettes, so I can’t think how it could be breathable, you certainly can’t force air through it as I’ve tried! So I am sceptical about all the mumbo jumbo printed on the larger than life, multiple swing tickets!
Having been in the manufacturing business in another life, I can honestly say you do not always get what you pay for. The same factory will produce a similar garment with variations in colour and design, under different brand names, but the only real difference will be the label inside and the price… depending on the brand name’s market place/target market.
I have just bought a pair of Salopettes reduced to half price because they are last season’s. Sitting along these were this season’s; 3 times the price. The only difference - they have changed the way the braces attach at the back, and the two waist fasteners at the front now have hooks instead of press studs… the spec of the fabric is the same !
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Poster: A snowHead
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
| my expensive Gortex jacket (which was a gift) has the same backing to the outer fabric as the cheaper Salopettes, so I can’t think how it could be breathable, you certainly can’t force air through it as I’ve tried! |
GoreTex is definitely NOT air tight! You will not sufficate in a GoreTex tent. 
What you've observed, is evidence of the "windproof" property of the fabric. As they claim, GoreTex is windproof.
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| So I am sceptical about all the mumbo jumbo printed on the larger than life, multiple swing tickets |
How it's supposed to work:
https://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/how-does-it-work-breathable
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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abc, so how come my gortex jacket gets damp from the inside when I'm really warm, and I've followed washing instructions to the letter? It's not as bad as a plastic mac granted, but it certainly doesn't out perform my Trespass Jacket which was a fraction of the price, never wore out, and kept me warm on many a holiday
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
| abc, so how come my gortex jacket gets damp from the inside when I'm really warm, and I've followed washing instructions to the letter? |
If your moving enough you even sweat when naked, there is a limit to breathable.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| ...I like light as it compensates for the beer belly. |
Nothing compensates for a beer belly. Give up now 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| abc wrote: |
[
GoreTex is definitely NOT air tight! You will not sufficate in a GoreTex tent. :roll |
Gore-Tex tents do not have the air tight coating on the inside that Gore-Tex clothes have.
The air tight coating is necessary to stop chemicals in your sweat damaging the membrane. Unfortunately it drastically reduces the breathability of the fabric at the same time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Oceanic, That explains a lot, thanks.
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"reduce breathability" maybe, air tight it is NOT!
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| abc wrote: |
| "reduce breathability" maybe, air tight it is NOT! |
The interior coating is a hydrophilic coating, not a microporous one - It's air tight. Some of the other fabrics like Event and Neoshell are not air tight, but modern Goretex is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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"modern Goretex"?
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Oceanic, is that just Paclite or all variants to which you refer? Can you point us to some references?
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