I converted to skiing last year after being a long term snowboarder - I'm wanting to get my kids into it so thought it would be easier if I could ski and I also like the idea of doing a bit of touring. So I made a concerted effort and did about 6 days last season, one of which was at Cairngorm where I was randomly captured on a video by someone on Winterhighland. I've snipped out my section and linked to it here (I'm not sure how to embed the clip):
I should probably get a lesson, but failing that has anyone got any pointers or areas to focus on based on this clip?
Thanks in advance!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are lots of ski instructors on here but you can only assume the clip is too short for them to comment. They would tell you to get lessons anyhow.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Actually surprised you haven't got any comments - pretty smooth for a one week skier, shows conversion isn't that difficult though some struggle the other way.The instructors can give you more precise tips but I'd say work on trying to get the same feeling you do snowboarding which probably means getting on the front of the skis early and working the edges round the turns.
Missed this yesterday. Very impressive for just a week's skiing. Good range of flexion and extension and your rate of movement isn't too bad, but a couple of points to think about:
1. You flex your knees and hips much more than your ankles (where you have almost no movement). This means that any time you flex down your immediately drop your weight backwards, making it more difficult to get the front of your skis to influence the shape of the turns you make.
2. Your extension at the start of the turn is quite rapid, quite 'poppy'. This means that the beginning of your turn is a bit light and drifty. If you slow down your rate of "up", and make it a more powerful push against the snow rather than a "slow-motion jump" your skis will have much more grip or edge at the top of the turn.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
fraseruk, looks really nice, out of interest how do you feel about the whole skiing thing compared to your snowboarding?
fraseruk, Nice work, you are skiing well. I'd echo rob@rar regarding ankle flex & 'pop' in that order. I'm also seeing your hands drop back a little when you pole plant which can have undesirable consequences.
Out of interest, I'd be very interested to see some video of you boarding if you have any.
I went in the other direction but found it a bit harder than you
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
fraseruk, i did the exact same as you, for exactly the same reasons as you last season. Only difference is that i only got two days on snow on the skis and learnt the rest on a dryslope. I thought the dryslope helped actually as it accentuated mistakes and made me work harder so the snow felt like a doddle.
Ps you look better than i do
After all it is free
After all it is free
When you try to carve, don't do it snowboard style. If you simply lean towards the centre of the turn on skis, you will fall over.*
On skis, you need to move the hips inwards, while the upper body stays closer to vertical (n.b. not a ski expert in any way, I'm sure one of the instructors on this thread will correct/improve that description).
*Yes, i found this out the hard way!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
fraseruk, Looking good for the time you have spent.
Just a couple of things your weight is a little back on the skis and this means the ski is not engaging at the tip but a little further back. If you watch the plume of snow from your ski you will see the point at which your ski is engaging. Beacuse the tip is not engaged you cant use the full shape of the ski to turn and as a result you have to 'force' the turn making the tirn slightly more z shaped than s shaped. Also try not to drop your arms backwards so much (poles pointing skyward) as it also lets your weight fall back too much. (freeze the frame at the very start of 3 secs and you will see the pole and your 'sitting' (weight back) posture)
As rob@rar, says just need to slow it up a little as you are slightly rushing the turn possibly also because of the above issues.
If you watch the guy skiing in the distance from about secs you will see his arms stay forward and also look at his turn shape they are 'S' shaped.
But to repeat everyones comments 'Good work' and very impressive for 1 week on skis
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'm not an instructor but to add to what others have said .....
Very good going for a one week skier. Your hands look to be falling back to your waist after the pole plant. This can lead to the upperbody twisting.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 9-11-11 13:48; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Really great skiing for 6 days fraseruk, you should be chuffed with yourself. I'm trying the process the other way this year and if my snowboarding was anywhere near as good after 6 days then I'd be pleased!
I agree with rob@rar, AndAnotherThing.. and kevindonkleywood.
I'll offer something that's linked to all three of the "pop"iness, ankle flex and sitting back...
In terms of "pop"iness, there are two things to consider - how quickly you extend (stand up *) and how / how much you extend. The rate at which you stand up looks pretty reasonable to me (and it suggests to me that you're a pretty good snowboarder) - it could be a bit slower, but isn't what I'd prioritise. But I think you're extending too much, which is probably linked to how you think about extending.
If you look at the start of the second turn then you'll see that you stand almost bolt upright when you extend...
It's almost like you're standing at attention
What it means is that the skis go light and you drift into the turn and also means that you never get forward on the skis and work the full length of the ski. (At the moment you're just using the back half of the ski.)
There are two things I'd suggest focussing on when you extend:
- feeling pressure on your shins pushing onto the tongues of the ski boots
- not extending so much that you open out the angle between the thigh and the waist completely.
One way to think of "standing up" is that you want to get the thigh bone vertical, feeling pressure on the shins whilst keeping the lovely hip angle you have here...
If you feel pressure on the shins then you'll be flexing your ankles. Once you start feeling that the shin pressure then you'll be able to be more conscious about ankle flex. Getting forwards on the front of the skis is also likely to help you to re-centre.
Once you've got that then focus on getting your hands forward as kevindonkleywood suggests. If your hands drop by your side then it'll encourage you to drop your weight back.
And then try slowing down the rate at which you extend. Just a bit.
But, to reiterate. Bloody good effort for 6 days.
Oh, and get some lessons
* You can extend without "standing up"
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB, a good videos (edited as you seem to have removed one!)
The problem with what it shows is that the pole plant is "late" - the skier starts to extend and then pole plants. The pole plant should happen simultaneously with the extension starting.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
fraseruk, Just to add, it would also be interesting reading how you managed to get to this stage in such a short time, It sort of reminds me of the film "chalet girl" sure you have some issues that you can take from this thread and work on "but who doesn't!" I think another six day's skiing and you'll be able to advise these guys Anyway drifting a bit but- if you could give us some more insight into the previous 6 days from first putting the skis on etc.
Where's my manners- "welcome to Snowheads"
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A general health warning on www.mechanicsofsport.com - a lot of the stuff on the site features stuff that most of the instructors on this site would consider to be very out of date technique (at best).
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
FlyingStantoni,
Deleted the first video as the skier was also dropping his hands back a bit on first couple of turns. Yes the animation is a bit robocop and unsynchronized - I'll try and find a better example.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 9-11-11 14:04; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
gatecrasher wrote:
"welcome to Snowheads"
+1
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Oh yes sorry ^^^^^ what they said,
Welcome to snowheads
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just to add to the general snowboard-ski changeover discussion - I'd hate to start claiming I was dead good, but definitely after 6 days on skis I was zooming about, pelting down blues, comfortable getting-down reds, etc.
It's hard to compare changing over to learning from scratch without any snowsports experience, but I reckon skiing is easier to learn. I don't buy the usual "snowboarding is harder to learn but easier to master" thing either.
Maximum extension is probably only needed just before maximum absorption i.e. just as you land a jump. Pro skiers extend and contract to absorb the terrain using their legs as shock absorbers. Aim to keep you head height at the same level above the piste (see the first vid I posted). I try to maintain contact with the front of the boot shin at all times with a very slight forward pressure and then roll the feet right and left putting pressure on the sides of the boots.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
stevomcd wrote:
I don't buy the usual "snowboarding is harder to learn but easier to master" thing either.
Is this because you make a living as a snowboard instructor?
Surely it was true because it was a relatively young sport - there was no-one instructing the Kidwells, Sims, Kellys etc because they were making it up as they went along as well as designing the equipment. Then even once professional instruction became available it was either downright bad (old ESF) or relied on those not much more experienced than the pupil. I certainly never took a snowboard lesson once I got off the dryslope because it was just so damn easy (relatively) on snow (and I'd been fortunate with having an initial instructor who had no truck with turns that weren't properly initiated or relied on kicking the back of the board round). And after a few days in Scotland I was riding all terrain from the first day on proper (full coverage, softish) snow.
I suspect there's more nowadays in the way of mastery possible from McNab type adventure courses to indoor jib jabbery coaching but I still don't see many advanced or improving intermediate snowboard lessons on any hill (maybe related to an overall tail off in uptake rates for the sport?)
Is this because you make a living as a snowboard instructor? wink
Who, me? Nope.
BASI 2 qualified, but don't make any money from it whatsoever!
Not disputing that most people can get around the mountain on a snowboard pretty quickly, just that the same is also true for skiing - and that I don't agree with those who argue that it is "harder" to reach an advanced level in skiing. Powder would be the only exception I would make - there's such a big effort required to start skiing powder that the skiers tend to get left behind.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stevomcd, Sorry must have mis-recollected your qualification. I think the 2 disciplines are converging more and as the OP nicely shows its isn't that difficult to transfer. The "old" mindset (of punters) re skiing seemd to be that progression was more related to difficulty of terrain hence "red run skiers" rather than fundamental skills and level of comfort. I don't think snowboarders really ever had that or a distinction between off and on piste (except in a safety sense) because the equipment was built to handle it unlike race based piste skis. Skiing equipment progression has made a big difference in enabling individual progression IMV so its possible for hacks to become "advanced" without being technically excellent (I count myself in this class).
After all it is free
After all it is free
fatbob, agreed, particularly with your last sentence - snowboards let people with pretty basic technique get around almost anywhere, modern skis have achieved much the same thing.
Tempted to say otherwise, but I reckon this is a good thing - as many people as possible having as much fun as possible!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
stevomcd wrote:
I reckon skiing is easier to learn. I don't buy the usual "snowboarding is harder to learn but easier to master" thing either.
I'd echo both points and certainly with skiing it's easier to become mobile quickly. I used to think that the learning curves for both were pretty much inverted, skiing was easy to learn initially, but then hard to master where as snowboarding is hard to learn and easy to master.
Since I've been thinking about my boarding more, I reckon that boarders suffer a similar 'plateau' to skiers. The difference is that for the most part they don't give a stuff - which is why I started boarding in the first place
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Watching with interest, as I suspect i'll have to learn the deviant art of skiing some time over the next couple of years as the 2 Jnr's get their snowlegs. Anyone who's cross the great divide got any advice specifically for someone who's only ever worn a skiboot as part of an ill-advised venture onto snowbikes? Are there any skills or concepts which are transferrable?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Richard_Sideways, You need to flex your ankles, if in doubt get your weight further toward the front and edges and sidecut do most of your work for you. Gorilla stance also works in some circumstances. Plus skis have 2 lots of of edges and will never feel as scary as a snowboard going sideways on ice so it's basically a piece of pish*
*may not be the BASI endorsed view.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Richard_Sideways wrote:
an ill-advised venture onto snowbikes? Are there any skills or concepts which are transferable?
Not sure that they are from snowbikes ! But otherwise the dynamics are similar
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Richard_Sideways, the two planks work in a pretty similar way to a single plank, it's just that the body-language required is a bit different due to the different stance.
Unweight - weight transfer forwards - on-edge - initiate turn - re-weight - weight transfer back to centre/rear - etc.
And nobody will ever convince me that the fecking poles are of any use whatsoever.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
the two planks work in a pretty similar way to a single plank, it's just that the body-language required is a bit different due to the different stance.
I have still got a monoski in the garage. I was looking at it the other day wondering "how did I ever turn it? It has no side cut at all"
John
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks for all the good feedback - a few things for me to focus on next time I'm out. I wasn't sure if I'd get anything useful from my first post on the forum but I'm impressed!
gatecrasher - I've found the transition pretty easy so far. I started doing a couple of hours on the dry slope to get a feel for it then just headed out to the Scottish mountains with some friends. It felt odd having my feet moving in different directions at first, and I was nervous of hurting my knees, it all just felt fragile at first.
I actually find one of the hardest things is silly stuff like walking about in skis and slow speed maneuvering up to lifts and things - once I'm up to speed on a smooth piste the feeling is quite similar to snowboarding and I understand how the edges work and how the snow will react and it starts to feel easy.
One of the days at Glencoe was a struggle when I followed a couple of mates off piste on snow that would have been great on the board but was a trauma for me on skis but I'm happy to keep trying.
AndAnotherThing: I don't think I've got any video of me snowboarding but I'm pretty competent, I like carving rather than freestyle which probably transfers to skiing fairly well. I've done a fair bit of off piste, a McNab course in Chamonix and a week with Skiers Lodge in La Grave were highlights.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
stevomcd wrote:
And nobody will ever convince me that the fecking poles are of any use whatsoever.
They're very nice people and very good at plumbing...
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
). Reach a little to plant your pole but don't leet the arms come back - it's in the wrist. Explained here - 
