Jackets?

A snowHead

It's a year or two since I last went skiing, and thought I might treat myself to a new overcoat this time. I've been using a Rab jacket with synthetic insulation that has always been ok, but I'm wondering about the slightly increased flexibility of one of these 3 in 1 jobbies (although I do of course have lots of thin fleeces etc to layer up with anyway).

But, accepting the fact this is something I don't necessarily "need", what are the makes and models that I should look out for. No real limit on price, but I think it'd have to be something pretty special to bust over £350 or so.

Cheers

A snowHead

I used to have a The North Face 3-in-1 'Triclimate,' which was £200 (although that was a while back). Was pretty damn good actually, and although the shell's ben retired I still use the insulation jacket on occasion. TBH I find a shell and fleece works just as well these days though, if it's really cold just double up the layers.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

andy from embsay, there are still some cracking deals on the Sweet website: http://www.sweetprotection.com/webshop/en/special-offers/technical-clothing/mens/jackets/

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andy from embsay, ....there's a movement amongst some climbers and skiers to non-membrane jackets - and they use instead a thick pile inside mated to a breathable outer. Models include the faithful Buffalo but for the more fashionable, the Patagonia Speed Ascent and the Rab Vapour Rise. There were some amazingly good versions of high altitude jackets using this system a few years ago (rab technical smock and montane series 6 jacket or smock) but they have been withdrawn - I think you can still get the Montane smock in some places since the military really favour them for cold weather work. This approach, of wicking moisture away, and having a thick pile whereby even if the outer becomes saturated (if the DWR breaks down or in extremis) the water does not reach your skin since it evaporates through body heat before it gets to you. Many people get cold due to chilling, caused by moisture build up during hard work, inside a membrane jackets using goretex or similar. These systems remove that entirely - they are 'non-waterproof waterproofs' and I can assure you (from doing a lot of high altitude stuff) that they are brilliant. Of course, Paramo have a whole system based on this concept.

check this out:

http://www.planetfear.com/reviews/Patagonia_Speed_Ascent_Jacket_1062.html

I have a black speed ascent and it is a fabulous piece of kit - bought on discount at EPICENTRE ambleside.

I have entirely moved away from membrane jackets and have been more comfortable in conditions such as -25 with -20 degrees of windchill than with layers and goretex. I would strongly recommend going down this route.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

valais2,

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livetoski, ...yes there's rapid progress at the moment - and some of the technical climbing jackets make much better ski jackets than the crop of 'fashion' oriented items - and look more hard core too, if you care for that kind of thing. The interesting development area is DWR - which enables a soft shell to perform really well in rain and wet snow - but the answer still lies in thick fibre pile in the inside, and decent venting to counter the heat build up. In climbing, you exert loads - and need good venting or few layers - and then stop (to belay) but in those contexts you have the time to ar*& around with belay jackets (it's still a pfaff - but things like the patagonia down jumper is excellent) - but in skiing you exert (overheat) and then sit on a freezing lift for 15mins - and they way to go there, I think, is softshell like the speed ascent but vent well when skiing, and then zip up and hunker down on the lift - the speed ascent has a helmet compatible hood so you can put it right over on the chair - excellent.

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After all it is free

Spyder XTL

Cynic, ...I like the odd Troll now and again.

In Crans, garish Spyder jackets (lovely silver embroidering) are worn by a crop of 'all of the gear and no idea' - and then there's the BIG problem of huge amounts of Spyder stuff now being cheap and badly performing copies. Huge number of dud Spyder copy items at Earl's Court yesterday.

Frankly, when I'm faced with real weather, I would mostly be wearing Patagonia, Rab, Mountain Equipment or Arcteryx, not Eider, Spyder, Columbia, or any other ski-specific stuff. But then that's just me.

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I was looking at some Haglofs jackets today whilst out with the dog. The vente and the couloir were the two that caught my eye - both softshells, the couloir with goretex in. I have a haglofs for running in which is great - but i wasn't sure whether these two felt a bit short?

Anyone used haglofs much?

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andy from embsay,

andy what ARE you up to ....quote....'whilst out with the dog'....???!!@@

I'm quite selective about Haglof's gear - some performs very well indeed. Arcteryx always seems to deliver and indeed has much longer tails than haglofs. Longer tails very important IMHO.

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If you're looking at that sort of performance, you should definitely check out the Supernaut jacket in Sweet's sale, link above. Nearly a third of Haglofs/Arcteryx rrp atm.

clarky999, looked at the Sweet stuff but it's nearly all small sizes only.

And I'm not sure which Arc'teryx jackets are the ones to look at - I saw one called the Mako (I think) but that doesn't seem to be available over here. My Haglofs top I use for fell running is ace, but the ones I looked at yesterday did seem a bit short (having said that I wear Mtn Hardwear sallies on the bottom so tend not to get snow down my grundies anyway).

You know it makes sense.

Sun Valley the French alternative; or for Valais2 and the cool offP set, Willy Bogner

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

valais2,

A snowHead

Oi!…what the $$+!!! are you talking about re off piste posing? Bogner my a##e.

Without indignation, here's following....the gear recommendations I was making – Patagonia, Arcteryx, Rab – come from using these in climbing and mountaineering, and then using them skiing. Mincing your way to the bar is one thing. Kicking your way along a ridge at 3500m is something else. Patagonia, Arcteryx and Rab (and MacPac come to think of it) deliver. They perform. They are expensive, but they work. I’ve been in situations with verglas forming on every surface of my clothing, my axes covered in ice, my nose blocked with the stuff. With spindrift taking the skin off your cheeks, and trying to get in every gap in your clothing, you appreciate good gear. I’ve been with grown people who have been crying, saying that they wished they’d bought better gear rather than skimped, and we’ve had to abandon objectives when they’ve been struggling due to poor kit.

Just to ram home the point, we did a small objective in June 2010, the Trubelstock. What could be easier – a little day trip. Nice day out, axes on board, B3s and crampons in the sacks, walk-in shoes up the hill to the snowline, summer alpine kit (Patagonia guide pants, Mammut softshell). It started snowing the moment we got to the high alpage, and we were passed by a group of Swiss with Patagonia, Haglofs etc – nicely battered kit. An hour later, they took one look over the ridge at the top and turned straight round and came back down the hill past us. When we got up there 20 minutes later I could see exactly why they’d bailed. Unstable snow field across the ridge to the first rock face, cloud coming in, snow increasing, wind hard and increasing (difficult to look into it). You needed B3s for the snow and axes for arresting, and you needed very good gear. I was having a hard time since I had a rubbish hood on my Montane windjacket, and I couldn’t keep it on my head, and ice was forming on my ears due to the humidity in the cloud and the accompanying windchill. That’s a quick route to losing flesh. Luckily my climbing partner had a spare hat, so our day (and my ears) weren’t ruined. Good trade since he’d forgotten his gloves so he got my spare pair. Despite the obvious sun in the valley, we were nearly taken off our feet a couple of times by wind gusts when we were exposed on the ridge. Poor, wrong or missing gear would have meant abandoning or severe risk of injury.

OK…that’s a long way of saying that while vanity may be a part of clothing choice, for me it’s function, function, function.

I like my ears. I like my nose. They’re not pretty but I need them. I like my toes and fingers. I would miss them. The two Jamies missed a lot more than that, when they were stuck on the Droites.

Patagonia, Rab, Arcteryx, Macpac = comfort (and extremities intact), when you really, really need it.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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andy_from_embsay - you're last post moved the goal posts....

I'm slightly torn with what to advise here. Valais2's comments are all good but they are definitley coming from a mountaineering background. I have (and love) a RAB Vaporise system which I use for ski mountaineering (in the Canadian rockies at -20C) and it is brilliant. Mainly because it is breathable at high levels of exertion.

But the few times I've worn it on or near a ski resort I'm normally freezing as you just don't spend enough time generating enough heat to care about the increased breathability. You're sitting on the lift; you're skiing down something so the wind is whipping around; even if you do something harder it is only for a few minutes (unless you're on a massive vertical). For me in resort I look for tough face fabrics (for when I inevitably fall over and they are much more windproof) combined with warmth enough so if I'm sat still for a while I won't freeze. For me this is some PataGucci down and waterproof over jacket which is marvelous if you're left stuck on a lift at -20C in the wind.

I'm fortunate currently in that I do enough skiing to be able to justify two complete outfits - one for ski mountaineering (where you spend 75% of the day going up) and one for downhill (where hopefully it is more down than up)

One thing that really differs as well is the pockets... a ski jacket has pockets everywhere, lift pass, wallet, phone, bottle of water, spare gloves all fit in my jacket so I don't need to ski in resort with a rucksack. My rab has almost none as it is all in the rucksack....

So.. that is my long winded way of saying you perhaps need to be a bit more specific about what you're after....

All in one ski jacket for resort? Something to use skiing and in Enlgish winter? Something for Alpine spring skiing (much warmer weather then...)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

FFS people, the man's talking about going skiing, not surviving a bloody zombie apocalypse. Get a grip. Laughing

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I think it's mainly for skiing (piste and off-piste) in Europe, and some winter bumbling at home. So pockets are good, warm(ish) is good, breathable is good and waterproof is good. Been looking at the Arc'teryx Sabre (which irritatingly Planet Fear had at 250 quid a few months ago).

I certainly don't do enough uphill stuff (either on front points or skis) to justify two sets of gear (not yet anyway...) so something breathable and waterproof and durable is probably right.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

andy from embsay, ...andy...sorry me again...arcteryx recognise the skiing market and do some excellent jackets with lift pass pockets etc ...for many normal downhill days in the Alps, I use a gamma softshell hoody - very slim cut, barely feel it on, highly breathable, lift pass pocket on left arm, plenty of mesh internal pockes, yet with main pockets high enough for a harness if its ever needed, pitzips for venting - really well thought out jacket - when back in blighty and coping with lake district downpours, it gets a pertex outer on (mammut or montane) and a thin zip up mammut microfleece underneath, or a macpac paclite shell. Very light systems, and deals with all types of weather.

Would second Clarky999's vote for mountain equipment - really excellent stuff, and now no longer sartorially challenged.

But I would still look at patagonia - the Speed Ascent and the Ascentionist - both on offer at Epic Centre Ambleside for peanuts, last time I looked.

pam w, ...but I thought you skied in Cham, where it's effing cold half the year....

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Right. Having said "not Patagucci" today i found their Snowshot 3 in 1 jacket. Shell plus an insulated inner jacket. About three hundred quid. However hardly anyone in UK seems to stock them. Anyone got/tried one?

I've also decided to get some new (properly fitted) boots as it seems i have a double passout in 2013. In the words of Greg Mitchell, the gorgeous sandy coloured labrador, "my wife's going to kill me...".

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Look at the North Face Free Thinker, i bought one last year (quite pricey for a shell) but having been on the slopes for 30 years i believe its defo the best jacket around £400 but totally bombproof, the best jacket ive ever worn, had it out on at least 20 days in Scotland last year which can be quite brutal, but totally waterproof and windproof and still looks as good as new !!!!!, cant say much more

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andy from embsay, there's a new Patagucci store in Covent Garden is that's any use to you. I was mooching around there the other day and it seemed fully stocked.

Lizzard, this is a perfectly reasonable thread, with various recommendations ranging in price from £200 - £450, which seems like a very normal and reasonable spread of ski jacket prices. Why the need for daft hyperbole and patronising comment?

You know it makes sense.

Good tip Dr John, thanks. Not in That London for a couple of weeks but will give it a mooch next time I'm there.

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Jackets?

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