Interesting video to watch and looks like its good for practicing movements but the way the skis interact with the surface is totally different to a normal slope,
I may be wrong here but It would appear to be impossible to actually carve a ski on the treadmill because the edge grip needed to bend the ski would presumably throw you off the top of the machine?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Interesting video to watch and looks like its good for practicing movements but the way the skis interact with the surface is totally different to a normal slope,
I may be wrong here but It would appear to be impossible to actually carve a ski on the treadmill because the edge grip needed to bend the ski would presumably throw you off the top of the machine?
The instructor I most often work with can carve on that surface, so it must be possible
Pedantica, Iski It would be bloody boring without the tuition bit The tuition makes it rather quite interesting!
Having watched Ronald, but not tried it myself yet, I think it has a bit of an edge over a snow-dome in two respects:
Biggest advantage being that you don't have to stop after 100m! So it is great for fitness.
Also the instructor is right there alongside the skier(s) and can give them continual instruction/feedback.
Whilst it hasn't got much atmosphere (not that snowdomes are much better...) it is quite sociable, you don't see from the videos but there's actually 4 of them sharing that lesson, normally 2 on the slope at once (one went home early so Ronald had it to himself when I filmed some of it).
A totally different experience, much more about fitness and certain aspects of technique - but I'd be interested to see if it ever took off in the UK. I'd go.
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rob@rar, oooh!
Ronald says he's seen a video of Chemmy on that one. Only Dublin at the moment though?
Think there's a wider market?
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wigan wrote:
Think there's a wider market?
No idea. I won't be applying for a job even though there's one due to open near me.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I can see it could be excellent for instruction...
BUT
...the dynamics must be quite different from 'real' skiing where the ground is always coming straight at you. It must feel quite different - and not just because of the sticky matting - so your body movements will, necessarily, be different. If used in isolation I imagine it could lead to a very weird technique.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Perhaps it's deceptive, but there appears to be a limit to the size of arc that you would be able to make. I wonder if there is tendency to develop any bad traits through using one?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Megamum, I would have thought it difficult to get any arc when your edges are skidding. I would imagine that skis with any decent edge on them would have you off the back pretty quick
altis, I have to agree it could easily be a double edged sword is used too much.
Edit: looking at the video some more it would appear that you are putting very little weight on the front of the ski and that you have almost no ankle flex, I suspect that this may be due to a varyness of getting the tips to actually engage with the surface as this will cause some degree of excitement
*Edited for spelling
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Mon 18-07-11 22:11; edited 2 times in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ronald, Is it helping ?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kevindonkleywood wrote:
I suspect that this may be due to a varyness of hetting the tips to actually engage with the surface as this will cause some degree of excitement
Indeed The instructor keeps a remote control emergency stop button in their hand at all times, and there's another by the bench where people sit and watch. I've only ever seen them fall over and get carried backwards on their bum though, nothing more dramatic. Knowing how confidently Ronald normally skis he does look far less confident/skilled than normal on here. Apparently it takes quite a while to get the technique required, the instructor was saying that no matter how experienced you are you'll spend the first few hours just snowploughing until you get used to it. I'm going to try it the once though, emergency stop at the ready...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I would certainly try it. Strikes me it would be best for beginners for confidence building and muscle memory development etc?
used to be one at Watford (spyderman taught there) - I hated it but others thought it was ok. The Dutch carpet looks bigger
I used that one, when I was just starting to ski. It definitely helped with the fitness (I was always exhausted after half an hour of constant movement). I liked the way that they could alter the gradient and that the instructor was able to see exactly what you were doing. Those machines were much smaller (one person per treadmill) and I seem to remember that they used snowblades on them rather than skis because of that.
I'd certainly recommend it for total beginners or people needing to rebuild stamina. As with all of these things a lot is down to the instructor. One I met was fantastic, others less so.
The Watford one was in a very weird place, I'm not surprised they went out of business really. Although they usually had a few people there.
Whitegold wrote:
Ski treadmills make you look like a right loser.
Maybe, but there's no one else there, and I might look better on the mountain...
Did someone actually buy that then? It was being sold on e-bay last I heard!
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Didn't Butterfly have the odd session on a realliski machine some years back? IIRC it had a bar that you held onto. In fact I think my kids had a go on one at a ski show around the same sort of time too.
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To be perfectly honest... the realli ski system looks like a bit of a joke... As a Fitness exersize perhaps though...
The system in my video is from Maxxtrack (who now have skiplex as UK representative): http://www.maxxtracks.com/index.html who also made the system at the dublin ski centre:
AndAnotherThing.., Definetly.
kevindonkleywood, I'm far from the perfect skier... plenty of things still wrong, so it is perfectly possible you see things I do wrong, wether its on this surface or snow.
Nay sayers: It is a very useful tool, not the sole answer however, like anything. As a lesson tool I find it many many times more efficient then a snowdome as this gives you 30 minutes an hour (because of lesson sharing), while in a dome I struggle to get more then 5-10 minutes skiing in an hour.
Trolls: Hello y'all
Oh yeah, constructive feedback, for example as given by kevin is still appreciated
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ronald, the maxxtrack does look like a much better solution than the realliski. A much wider slope, which allows you to use proper skis for one thing. I wouldn't say that realliski was a joke by any means, but it was a flawed concept and was limited in scope. Still useful for fitness and basic skills in my opinion. I won't comment on your skiing, because I don't feel qualified to, but I'd be interested to know more about maxxtrack. It seems to have that same weird effect of pulling you backwards up the slope on the traverse that I remember from the treadmills. Does the setup allow the gradient/speed or any other factors to be altered? How flexible is it as a system in general?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ronald, Just one thing to watch out for, and again I think it may be an adaptation to the surface? As you transition your turns you make a funny little step (mini stem) with the tail of your new inside ski I suspect that beacuse of the rolling surface you have to get your weight the outside ski slightly later than you would normally as you have to keep the edges slipping, i guess this leaves weight on your inside ski which you then have to 'step' round. If you watch the first video and look you make this little stepping motion on many of the turns.
Just be carefull that this does not become a habit on the hill
Quote:
It is a very useful tool, not the sole answer
It certianally looks like it would help in developing a seperation of movemnets especially of you can see yourself as you ski.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kevindonkleywood, one thing to add to the mix here are the different stimuli - so although the ground is moving the visual and vestibular (balance mechanism) stimuli will be a bit weird when compared to normal skiing. You would have to try it to see what effect this would have out on the slopes - if any. But it could potentially cause problems.
I take Ronald's point that the system offers intensive practice and correction on a predictable surface. But then so does a dry slope...heh heh, and its fun
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
kevindonkleywood wrote:
Ronald, Just one thing to watch out for, and again I think it may be an adaptation to the surface? As you transition your turns you make a funny little step (mini stem) with the tail of your new inside ski I suspect that beacuse of the rolling surface you have to get your weight the outside ski slightly later than you would normally as you have to keep the edges slipping, i guess this leaves weight on your inside ski which you then have to 'step' round. If you watch the first video and look you make this little stepping motion on many of the turns.
The stepping is a technical mistake revealed by the extremely unforgiving surface, even Chemmy makes a tiny one.
It is not so much the rolling surface as the fact you absolutely can not drag a ski that merely touches the surface, while on snow an unweighted ski readily drags.
Once I master to switch edges exactly the same moment every turn it should disappear. Well spotted
JustJill, Gradient and speed are both adjustable. In the video it is at an average gradient, and maximum speed (more speed makes it easier on this surface). It does drag you up when skiing across the slope, but that's normal isn't it, even on snow that is the moment you have the lowest speed downhill.
sunnbuel, Any surface offers posibilities
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Megamum, I would have thought it difficult to get any arc when your edges are skidding. I would imagine that skis with any decent edge on them would have you off the back pretty quick
Go to the Chemmy vid- let it run to the very end then pick the second video suggestion on the bottom line......
He seems to be coping ok & doesn't appear to have too many bad habits that I wouldn't mind owning!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It is Terrible!!!!!!
Quote:
The instructor I most often work with can carve on that surface, so it must be possible
His initials are not BB by any chance He is a world Championship and potential olympic skier.
Great for teaching Snow Plough but after I have my doubts about it! There is no sensation of movment, or bumps under the feet it is a flat rolling surface.
Quote:
would have thought it difficult to get any arc when your edges are skidding. I would imagine that skis with any decent edge on them would have you off the back pretty quick
Actually completing a text book turn on this leads to instant Whiley Coyotee wall splat! Very limited range of turning on this surface
Considering how much financial trouble the one in Dublin is having I can not see it being any diffrent in the UK it is on its 3/4 managment team in 3 years at this stage.
Is a shame as the instructors that work there are a really great bunch (Including some of my family), I really did not see the benefit of the surface but each to their own.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ronald,
Quote:
As a lesson tool I find it many many times more efficient then a snowdome as this gives you 30 minutes an hour (because of lesson sharing), while in a dome I struggle to get more then 5-10 minutes skiing in an hour.
I don't understand this. I take lessons in a snowdome and get loads more than 5-10 minutes skiing per hour.
I think the 'beauty' of a snowdome is that it mimics, albeit not perfectly, the sort of conditions one might find on the hill. This smooth treadmill looks as far removed from a real slope as it's possible to get. In particular, whilst the earth might move at other times on a ski holiday , it tends not to move (except, God forbid, in an avalanche) under your feet while you're skiing.
But I'm probably a bit prejudiced in that I absolutely hate ordinary treadmills as well.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Quote:
As a lesson tool I find it many many times more efficient then a snowdome as this gives you 30 minutes an hour (because of lesson sharing), while in a dome I struggle to get more then 5-10 minutes skiing in an hour.
Its actually 10 min on 10 min off if it is a shared lesson or not.
As a lesson tool I find it many many times more efficient then a snowdome as this gives you 30 minutes an hour (because of lesson sharing), while in a dome I struggle to get more then 5-10 minutes skiing in an hour.
Its actually 10 min on 10 min off if it is a shared lesson or not.
Or 7.5 7.5 or or or... in the end 30 mins of an hour.
Fattes13, There are many text book turns... not all of them involve mach 666 and using 300 feet of slope width.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Interesting exercise, but I wouldn't fancy falling uphill
I don't understand this. I take lessons in a snowdome and get loads more than 5-10 minutes skiing per hour.
Maybe he exaggerates a bit but at least on this system there's no queuing for the lift, no time spent on lift, no time stopped at the top or part way down to take a briefing from the instructor. You literally just ski, continually, for the 10 min (or whatever length) chunks that you are on there for, with continual input from the instructor. Which had them all sweating buckets by the end of an hour last week So even if it's dubious for technique it certainly gets you fit
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If they install one near me and the price is reasonable, I'd have a go to see how well I got on with it.
Having an instructor standing a few feet away from you and being able to see yourself in a mirror whilst skiing sounds very handy for coaching, along with being able to continuously ski without the stop start of usual dry/indoor slopes.
Elmer, I like the video... Nicely shows I have a buzzillion things to learn still
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Pedantica wrote:
Ronald,
Quote:
As a lesson tool I find it many many times more efficient then a snowdome as this gives you 30 minutes an hour (because of lesson sharing), while in a dome I struggle to get more then 5-10 minutes skiing in an hour.
I don't understand this. I take lessons in a snowdome and get loads more than 5-10 minutes skiing per hour.
As wigan says the advantage is that you get longer runs. You aren't limited to skiing the length of a snowdome and could (theoretically) keep skiing indefinitely! With an instructor right next to you giving you imediate feedback.
Runs in the snowdome are, by necessity, short. On busy days I've certainly spent more time queueing than skiing (on one memorable occasion at HH they had reserved the 'fast' lift for racing practice on a busy afternoon. The queues for the lift were backing several metres up the slope (and they were getting officious about entry/exit times)). On the reverse treadmill you aren't competing with Joe Public for time and don't have to spend any time travelling back up the slope. Although this in itself could be a disadvantage for anyone who just learns to ski on the machine. Learning to handle button lifts and rope pulls in a snowdome was a lot easier than meeting them for the first time on a mountain!
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Elmer, Forgive me but I suspect that all is not as it seems on that video, I have tried watching it several times to look at the way the skis interact with the surface but there is something very fishy going on with the post production on there.
I have also watched the clip of Chemmy and she is indeed stemming some of her turns. So its must a very alien experience if she is 'struggling' with technique. Having said that i would imagine cash changed hands for the kind 'endorsement'
Ronald, 's video is a more honest look at the system as it shows not just the front on view but an oblique view which is much better for observing how the skis are interacting with the mat (and has not had any 'funny business' done to the video). I have to agree with him it is a tool for learning, but my concern is that there is no opportunity to get a real 'feel' for the skis, no opportunity to learn to manage the edge pressures and read the feedback from the ski. Afterall the feel of the skis is critical and that what tells you if you have good technique or you have something wrong.
Looking at the turn shapes they are not nice rounded turns because if you turn the skis too far across the hill you will end up in a cartoon like splat.
sunnbuel, Made some very good points about the differing stimuli
It looks like it is a 'ski like experience' that may help as a teaching tool, it is not skiing. Having said all that I would give it a try for a laugh.
FAQ
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The instructor keeps a remote control emergency stop button in their hand at all times, and there's another by the bench where people sit and watch. I've only ever seen them fall over and get carried backwards on their bum though, nothing more dramatic. Knowing how confidently Ronald normally skis he does look far less confident/skilled than normal on here. Apparently it takes quite a while to get the technique required, the instructor was saying that no matter how experienced you are you'll spend the first few hours just snowploughing until you get used to it. I'm going to try it the once though, emergency stop at the ready...
So even if it's dubious for technique it certainly gets you fit 
