North American ski advice needed please

A snowHead

I'm looking to go skiing in North America at some point this Winter, perhaps even over the Xmas / New Year period. The problem is that I have absolutely no idea about anything North American, having done all of my previous skiing in Europe.

I am a fairly advanced skier and I am looking for resorts with good snow, large ski areas and big verticals. I will most likely be heading out on my own so I would be looking for a more mainstream resort with decent apres. I don't mind either Canada or USA, although I have always heard of such great snow in Canada that it would probably be my preference.

If any Snowheads could give me some advice on the best resorts to go to it would be more than welcomed. What is the best time to go for snow, and would it be good over the Xmas period? I will be taking my own kit and can get cheap flights, so all I am looking to organise is accomodation, transfers and ski pass. How much should I be expecting to pay for accomodation (low-end most probably). So far I have checked out Whistler online and the lift prices look exorbitant (£400+ for 8 days). Is this a similar price to all North American resorts?

All info / advice / sarcasm welcome . . . .

A snowHead

Try Whistler and do a couple of days with "Extremely Canadian" I really enjoyed my days being guided by them on steeper off piste slopes in-bounds (they start by having a Ski Off to divide people up into groups of similar standard).

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Whistler would tick the boxes, but the resort is low, so it can easily rain at resort level and on lower slopes, compromising snow quality. It also gets crowded, especially the mountain resaraunts. It also feels a bit 'corporate' and 'big business'.

As an alternative how about Jackson hole. Lots and lots of marked runs of black standard and upwards plus good out of bounds skiing. Generally steepish terrain and it feels more mountain-like than many of the US resorts. Not sure about nightlife though. I went 6 or 7 years ago and stayed in the town of Jackson, a bus ride from the skiing. At the time the area round the ski lifts was just starting to be developed, maybe staying near the skiing is now a more viable choice if you are after nightlife. That said, there's a fair bit going on in Jackson town if you like the 'fake' cowboy vibe.

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Lots of stuff on here as beginner's guides. Whistler is atypical I think in both size and the polarity of the experience. In short it can be excellent or it can be very disappointing largely driven by weather factors so it's a gamble if you're only there for a short stay.

Whole regions in N America can get skunked in any one time period so great snow anywhere is a bit of a gamble and some resorts will effectively close down on some storm days (usually a sign the next day will be good however). Personally I think Tahoe is a pretty good bet as there is a variety of individual resorts and plenty of accomodation options, doesn't ever get too cold, but in general catches plenty of storms. Colorado and Utah people of course turn their noses up at the wet snow further west. If you're up for driving the Pacific Northwest and BC can reward a bit of exploration. Anywhere accomodation can be much cheaper by staying in local towns (usually within 30 mins drive) rather than in resort but then you do have the hassle of traffic and snowchains etc.

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My first thought was Whistler too, FWIW, but I'm not hugely experienced in NA skiing either. I was just reading this thread though, so might be worth having a look: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=79342#1853617

Spud9, the area round the Jackson lift station seemed pretty lively for apres a couple of years ago (mostly centered on the Mangy Moose), but we stayed in town too so no idea what it was like in the evening (there's plenty of accomm there so probably still lively). From what I've heard Whistler has better early season snow than Jackson, but Jackson is probably fine around Christmas (we were out early Jan and coverage was fine).

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Okay - so a lot of this has been said before but here is a quick summary.

This does not include Whistler as I've never been there but I think applies to most other Canadian resorts and I suspect from previous comments plenty of USA ones as well.

Canadian resorts are different to European resorts - we don't have on-piste and off-piste. We have inbounds and out of bounds. The difference is cruical to an understanding of how resorts work. In Canada anything inside the resort boundary and not marked as closed due to avalanche is fair game. Pistes in the European sense tend to be greens and blues while blacks / double blacks are basically bits of terrain you can ski as you wish; it is rare to find a groomed black and most double blacks are too steep.

Secondly Canadian resorts are small. Lake Louise and Sunshine combined (both accessible from Banff but an hours drive apart) would be significantly smaller than Les Arcs alone - perhaps Flims-Laax sized but it's been a while since I skied in Europe. If all you do is ski the runs you can easily ski out a normal Canadian resort in a day; what we do is ski lots of different bits of terrain from the same lift. If you want to do some cruising between villages stopping for coffee / wine than Canada isn't for you. If however you want to ski stuff "in bounds" that would almost certainly be off-limits in Europe then Canada is the place for you... I can still remember my first visit to Kicking horse where a Black (not even a double black) involved a near vertical 3 foot drop (into lovely soft powder mind) from the ridge to the start of the bowl. The on-piste facilities are basic as most Canadians will be day trippers and bring food with them to some extent; the base lodges are over-run at weekends with racer schools and amazingly quiet the rest of the time.

Canada at Christmas (especially the rockies side) can be cold. -20C air temperature (not including wind) is not unusual and it has hit -40C including windchill. Canadian lift tickets are expensive (Lake Louise is about $80CDN per day) and don't forget to add GST / HST at 12% if your in B.C.

As for nightlife most resorts are actually out of town. e.g Fernie resort is 20 minutes outside Fernie, Kicking horse is 15 minutes from Golden, Sunshine is 30 minutes from Banff etc. All of the towns are small but there is still fun to be had.

My recommendation is almost always to do a road trip.. be flexible and plan to visit some of the smaller resorts in B.C or the rockies depending on where you start / finish (Calgary or Vancouver). That way you can chase the snow.

After all it is free

^^^ Agreed, though to get the best out of the interior you need to be a pretty handy tree/steeps skier. It is also fairly remote, so so something to do with some friends.

Also bear in mind that as you get later in the season more terrain becomes accessable and the steeps become less steep and less rocky. So if you're really looking to hit the steeper off-piste stuff, then later in the year might be better.
Whistler had an amazing start to the year last season and a whole lot of places were skiable by Christmas, but that most definitely is not always the case. As a point regarding the gamble however, I did not ski a single day there in January because of the weather (annoyingly it was really good in the week, then warmed up and rained every weekend!), but the rest of the season was awesome. This of course could happen anywhere, I left 1m of fresh snow in Whistler one day a few years back to arrive a few days later in France to ski on rocks!

If you do go to Whistler and want to be shown the best places and pushed a bit, I'd second snowballs Extremely Canadian recommendation, or suggest a Dave Murray Camp.

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Agree with sweaman2, really although reckon fernie is nearer than 20mins from the hill.

Christmas can be early season in the Canadian rockies so can be thinnish in places depending on the year. LL and Sunshine could be busy over Christmas /new Year, the other resorts I have done at this time of year and have been fine.

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Thanks for all the info so far. I'm stuck between doing the full 10 days in one resort (probably Whistler / Banff / Vail) or hiring a car and doing a few days around a load of the Canadian ones. Are the ski passes in N America always done daily? Or are they cheaper if you get a 10-day pass like in europe?

Unfortunatly I can only go around Xmas / New Year as this is when I have the time off from work. Therefore I don't mind rain in the village / lower slopes, so long as the snow is good at the top of the mountain. And I'm more than happy with travelling the same lifts / runs time and time again - as I've only ever been in Europe i'm used to travelling all over resorts but a lot of the time this is merely in the hope of finding the best snow. one of the reasons I want to go across the Atlantic is to experience the different skiing environment.

And i'll definitly be wanting some sort of off-piste teaching / guiding so thanks for the heads-up. Without sounding cocky i'm pretty good on the pisted stuff, but my technique could best be described, if being kind, as 'shoddy' when hitting the deep stuff.

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Go to whistler! Based on what you're looking for, that should suit you fine.

As another (often) solo traveler, I would caution against "road trip", especially in BC. The distance between resorts are long without a relieve driver. And the cost of the car can be substantial when split by...a group of one!

Jackson Hole as mentioned is another good destination. Aspen is another with good varied terrain. And most importantly, both have lodging by the slope + handy shuttle bus to get around. Being in the US, you're not hammered by the strong Canadian dollar. Sad

Tahoe at Christmas...I'd rather ski in a frig! It'll be less crowded than the slope of Tahoe!

Ski resorts in British Columbia are great. If you don't want to go with the crowd avoid skiing during holidays. Ski season usually starts late November until April. Try to look at Fernie in BC, the resort is 30 minute ride from the Cranbrook Airport that takes regular flights to Vancouver.

You know it makes sense.

Take a look for Mammoth Mountain in California, Great place with a long season Very Happy

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

PinballWizard, FWIW, as a taster, I'd probably recommend flying into Calagry, hiring a car, and keeping along the Trans Can (Highway 1) between Nakiska and Revelstoke, taking in Sunshine, Norquay, Louise, Kicking Horse etc. Just keep one eye on the forcast, if it looks bad for a couple of days stay put, but the Trans Can is so vital it is normally never shut for more than a few hours unless it's dumping faster than they can plough it. You're not too far from Fernie, Panorama, Big White, Silver Star etc, so probably do one area a day if the want was there.

You know this, but Canadian Affair out of MCR are probably your best deals.

If you just want to stay in one area, book late with a TO, knowing where the snow is, you will not get cheaper. If they have good early snow, Fernie stopping at FAR is a good choice.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Also

You are wanting to go at peak season and therefore I am not sure the see what happens appraoch will work. Accomodation can get booked

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Sorry snowball but I meant in-bounds which is different to off-piste. In Europe (unless things have changed since I left) if you ski off-piste then the ski patrol won't guarentee (spelt wrong I know) that the slope is safe from avalanche and if you have an accident they might not come and rescue you; it is at your own risk. This concept doesn't exist in Canada (apart from perhaps at Whistler which I've not visited)- almost everything inside the resort boundary will have been controlled and if you have an accident anywhere the ski patrol will help you. In Europe "off-piste" can mean just the other side of a piste marker but not groomed. There is no such thing as "off-piste" in Canada just groomed and ungroomed (I may be generalising slightly).

This is why European resorts talk about km's of piste (which you can safely ski) while N. American resorts talk about acres of terrain (which you can safely ski)

It is important people have the right expectations when they visit North America which is what I was trying to outline earlier.

More later...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

sweaman2, The phrase "Off-limits" normally means you are not allowed there and I was simply pointing out that this is not true of European Off Piste (though it is often true of American "out-of-Bounds"). However they will certainly try to rescue you anywhere off-piste. I am unsure if this is true "Out of Bounds".
When visiting Jackson Hole I was surprised (as a European off-piste skier) how few of the many good skiers there ventured out of Bounds. We almost had it to ourselves.

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If you find yourself in the Pacific North west and tooling about looking for mountains, go and visit Mt Baker. A half days drive out of Seattle. Back end of beyond but a great spot with ridiculous amounts of snow when it gets a storm go through.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Is it high time to start a faq thread on the Difference between skiing in Europe and N. America?

So each time someone ask advice on skiing in Canada or US, a new thesis about the difference between skiing Europe and N. America is written.

Or is it too simplistic to say, in Europe, you ski between the piste markers. In N. America, you ski between...the boundary rope! To do otherwise, you either be with a guide, or you have similar knowledge as the guides do.

After all it is free

I think in Canada if you are skiing out of bounds you will get rescued but you get rescued by a different organisation to the resort ski patrol. I think it then becomes other rescue organisations and the RCMP

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Back to the OP question though. I think you might find 10 days in Banff quite limiting unless the snow is amazing. If I was flying into Calgary for 10 days I would do something like - Banff for 4 days (get over jet lag; half day at Norquay; 2 days at sunshine) then 2 or 3 days at Panorama (this is a marmite resort - some people like it some people loath it, when I've been I've had good conditions and it does have big vertical with fast lifts The frontside can get very icy though); then go to Golden for Kicking horse for a couple of days before heading back to Lake Louise for 2 days and then back to Calgary.

That keeps the driving times low (less than 2 hours for any leg) and you get to try 4 resorts. I think that might be "do-able" on public transport although I'll be honest and say I have no idea..

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Seconded on pretty much all of what sweaman2 said, though wasn't a big fan of Panorama, like he says, Marmite. Would rather spend my time at Sunshine or Louise, And Kicking Horse is brilliant in fresh powder.

sweaman2, never got to Nakiska when I was there - worth a visit if you're based out of Banff?

Richard_Sideways,

I spend a lot of time at nakiska. Like on average last season 3-5 days a month and this season it will be more (maybe 4-6). Nakiska is underated and I reckon is worth a day's skiing. Its in a beautiful area. Go mid week and you will have the mountain to yourself and there are some lovely blue fast runs and the monster glades can be fun. The blacks off gold can also be good. You can see wildlife too, bighorn sheep from the top of gold (admittedly rarely but you might strike lucky).

The big question mark at nakiska can be the snow/ice! So watch out for conditions and if they are reasonable go for it. If you let us know the likely dates I can post some condition reports.................

You know it makes sense.

gryphea, sadly not planning on getting back to Canada any time soon i'm afraid Sad

Don't fancy the long-haul from London to Calgary with 2 under 2's, but when the kids are old enough to appreciate the trip, we'll be back - Can't have m'boys learning how to snowboard in France now, can we? wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I personally think Nakiska is over priced (only been once) for the amount of terrain available.. but is quiet out of weekends.

A snowHead

A snowHead

snowball, Agree its a bit simplistic - there is plenty of terrain in Europe where reasonable general knowledge and mountaincraft can let you ski off piste in relative safety without the comprehensive local knowledge of a good guide. However my measure is if you can't explain why objectively you consider it to be safe then you probably shouldn't be there. You're more likely to hit submerged rocks though wink

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fatbob, sure, but you hit them with a guide too. As my friend says: I wear skis to protect my feet from the rocks.

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I think Utah would be better for what you want, it has pretty much guaranteed snow, it isn't as hideously expensive as some other places (if you stay away from Deer Valley) and has terrain and out of bounds to suit any taste. I was planning another trip last year with a view to staying in Ogden and alternating between Canyons, Park City and Powder Mountain. You can buy your lift tickets online and in local shops for big discounts and if you are lucky might find something on Liftopia.com the last time I bought a multi-day pass for Brighton, SOlitude, Alta/Snowbird and it worked out $60/day, you could also ride the busses, tram etc all day everyday for free. People are friendly, Salt Lake City is suprisingly lively and fun and good value and has several world class resorts nearby. You haven't seen snow till you've seen Utah snow, it came down 40+ inches in 24 hours for my last 2 days, never had so much fun.
All the above said I would love to visit Jackson or more specifically Grand Targhee on the other side of the mountain, same terrain, no chintz and on average 30% more fluffy white stuff than Jackson.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Help!!

North American ski advice needed please

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