why weight on outside ski?

cran

In another thread people are suggesting getting more weight on the outside ski.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=88412#2023012

I have used the exercise where you lift the back of the inside ski keeping pressure on the tip, and that really helps with the body position, keeping the weight forwards and the balance, but my instructor (who also told me the lifting back of inside ski exercise) teaches me to have equal weight on both skis into and through the turns.

My skiing feels a lot better now that I have weight on both skis rather than just the outside ski (what I used to do)

So reading the other thread I'm a bit confused... Can anyone explain why you would want to have more weight on the outside ski rather than equal weight on both?

A snowHead

cran, it depends on what kind of snow you're skiing on/in. On firm snow (such as a piste) it is better to be balanced more on your outside ski as it maximises the level of grip and carve that you can get out of the ski. Biomechanically it is also more effective to be balanced on the outside leg (as an example, if you are trying to suddenly change direction when running, do you push off the outside leg or the inside leg?). Being able to ski with balance spread more equally across both feet is an invaluable skill, and makes skiing in some kinds of snow such as powder, slush, on crust, etc. But for piste skiing, especially when the snow is firm it is the outside ski that works more effectively.

cran

Thanks!

That explains it, as we are doing mostly off piste and different terrain and conditions.

I have noticed that it's easier to have weight on the outside ski when carving and also the skis a bit wider apart, but recently I have found that I'm getting more weight on the inside ski when carving on bashed pistes too and it doesn't feel wrong.

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cran

So should there be some weight/pressure on the inside ski or all on the outside when carving?

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

cran, you want enough pressure on it so it stays in a clean carve, but no so much pressure that the outside ski isn't doing most of the work.

After all it is free

"but my instructor (who also told me the lifting back of inside ski exercise) teaches me to have equal weight on both skis into and through the turns."

cran, it might be worth double checking thats what he/she really meant.

Outside ski supports all of your bodies weight in the turn. If you take that support away by moving weight off of that outside foot and give some to your inside foot, then there's going to be more of your bodymass which isn't under as much support as it was. The momentum of your upper body then has less support to prevent it from losing control and therefore you're more likely to crash of the edge of the cliff at the side of the piste and or hit a snowboarder who was sitting in the middle of the piste, reading a book, having a rest...

wink

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rob@rar,

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Off piste skiing powder, crud, slush and breakable crust you must ski with roughly equal pressure (perhaps a little more on the outside, but if you are used to piste skiing with most on the outer foot it is easier to think of it as equal pressure) otherwise you are in danger of one foot being caught by the snow and left behind.
On piste you can ski that way too but it is not so strong. Imagine standing on one foot - already you are automatically getting some angulation,

snow reports

Racers weight the skis differently at different phases of the turn.
http://www.youcanski.com/en/coaching/inside_ski.htm

I noticed on that 'knee-friendly' skiing guide discussed on the ACL thread that they said one of the danger signs was having the uphill ski unweighted.

You know it makes sense.

you never want more pressure on the inside ski than the outside. How much on the outside depends on the snow, slope steepness, size of turn, where you are in the turn, etc.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

[quote="Pedantica"]rob@rar,

A snowHead

It depends a lot on how much lateral G you are pulling in the turn i.e. the more lat G the more weight will naturally transfer to the outside ski. As with a racing car when cornering. You can counter the weight transfer by leaning more onto the inside ski, but there's a limit to how much you would want to do that. There's no way in a high speed aggressive turn that you would be, or would want to be, anywhere near 50/50 weight distribution across the skis.

A snowHead

Outside ski dominance always but I believe very important to train the inside ski also. Best drill for that is learning to feel the little toe edge on flat slopes.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I've always taught and been taught 100% weight on the outside, because trying to achieve less intentionally does all sorts of weird things. You'll always have some weight on the inside or it'll trip you up sharpish, and it'll vary with the terrain and how far you're moving the platform of your skis away from your CoM. Worrying about ratios of weight will just make you static and awkward imo.

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DaveC, 100% weight on the outside ski in deep snow?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Yeah, try it - means you can ski pow like a man Wink

Seriously though, it gives a solid platform feel even in deep snow.

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DaveC, only caused problems for me. Outside ski sinks, inside ski floats. A world of hurt.

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rob@rar, I think it depends what you're trying to achieve really - the more pivoted the turn, the more the platform stays underneath you, and the more equal the weight has to be. If you're going to commit to the outside ski you have to be trying to make almost groomer like turns with angulation. Bouncy, bottomless type turns (and the fatter the ski, the quicker snow feels bottomless) are so much quicker "edge to edge", and I think this is where the big deal of weight per ski rations comes from - you don't really create pressure or have to balance against anything, or have enough momentum to move the platform away, so it will feel two footed unless you go mach looney, but I still feel I'm getting all the weight I can to the outside ski.

That probably made sense, I haven't skied or taught for a month...

After all it is free

DaveC, turn shape doesn't seem to make much difference to me. It's a fairly simple equation for my skiing (of deep powder snow): too much weight on outside ski = balance all over the shop and a lack of control. If I ski a bit more two-footed I have more balance and can do a bit more with my skis.

Not that I'm advocating a precise 50:50, just that 100% outside ski has never worked well for me in deep snow.

cran

When I first skied deep snow I just sat on my heels and lifted the inside ski to turn (it was that or a face plant), so 100% weight on the outside, and this sort of worked (as in I could stay upright and get down the hill most of the time).

Since I was told to keep more balanced with my skis close together and weight forwards (and how to use the poles, and after a lot of practice and falling over) I eventually think I have a lot more control. The steep and/or bumpy off piste sections are at least possible (if still not very pretty) I can control my speed better and the easy deep snow feels much nicer/easier as I am now focused on skiing rather than not crashing...

But I think that by trying to get equal weight on both skis I probably still only have 30-40% on the inside most of the time.

Is still fun to hack down pisted blues and reds on the outside ski with a wider stance, but I've noticed that I put some weight on the inside ski even on piste now, whether that's good or bad it doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment and most of the weight is on the outside.

Hopefully after I've done a few more weeks of skiing (not for a while now) and had more lessons I'll learn some more and improve, it has really helped getting some advice/opinions/links on this thread... thanks!

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in deep snow, how fat your skis are is a factor. the fatter they are the more you can load up the outside ski

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rob@rar, speed and open space helps - check out the guys arcing big turns in Alaska and I'd guess they'd be feeling forces similar to someone carving fast GS turns on piste. Of course they are also on skis that plane easily too.

It's probably a technical point that's irrelevant for most offpiste teaching however.

snow reports

A bit geeky but hey summer is coming... if you are interested in understanding when where and why you should pressure the inside ski have a look here at a fairly technical article on use of the inside ski , i think it makes a lot of sense.

skimottaret, Nice article - I'd always wondered about those perfect tramline drills for racers -seems the author is pretty sceptical.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

fatbob, yeah definitely as am I , a very dry slope 2 D way of skiing imo... gurshman the author talks a lot of sense..

A snowHead

skimottaret,

I think that article confirms what has already been suggested earlier in the thread in that each ski is effectively skiing a different turn. Before the outside ski has finished the current turn the inside ski has already started the next. Scary to think that these guys are doing this automatically at such speeds.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

bobmcstuff, I don't think you *have* to be going really fast, and I'm not convinced beginners in your scenario are likely to be balanced on the outside ski well - powder (or bumps, or slush) are bound to highlight places they could improve. Different approaches to skiing and teaching skiing mean people will feel confident skiing with different styles so I agree that there isn't a "proper" style, just stuff to play with - I've found the most confidence inspiring is to really stand on my outside ski, but I've skied in NA for five seasons now so I've had a lot of time to experiment Smile

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itsn't it just that the outside ski is downhill and you have to lean from the waist over the dowhill ski to weight it, therefore your uphill ski leg is bent more and your lower ski takes more of the weight?

The alternative is not to bend at the waist, your weight will be more on the upper ski (basically you will be perpendicular to the ski edge and the lower ski will hardly have any contact / weight? so leaning over automatically weights the lower ski and bending the upper leg more means less weight on the ski?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Sack the Juggler, Don't forget the dynamic loading from lateral acceleration generated in a turn. It's not just a static balance issue. Lateral acceleration i.e. cornering, increases the dynamic load on the outside ski. I actually quite like that feeling as you power through a turn and the dynamic load builds up on the outside ski.

I'd also question when people talk about having roughly equal weight on both skis. A perceived 50/50 distribution could easily be 80/20 in reality. Also in deep powder you are likely to turn less aggressively than on piste, which naturally reduces lateral weight transfer. I doubt in reality that people really ski with 50/50 weight distribution in any conditions other than straightlining or extremely gentle pivoted turns.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

uktrailmonster, my brain melted.

I think one reason I really like just to teach and encourage 100% weight on the outside is what trying to achieve it actually does - if you're constantly trying to keep your weight as much as possible to the outside ski, you're forced to increase edging, which makes you angulate more, which brings performance to the skier in all parts of the turn without having to really get technical. It just aids natural progression so well, and as a cue works from snowplow to high end.

After all it is free

DaveC, out of interest do you teach people to ski with a slightly narrower stance when skiing in off piste conditions?

DaveC, I like to think more about softening my inside leg more when I want to increase my angulation, It seems to give me the same effect as fully weighting the outside ski without feeling the need to lock the outside leg which sometimes happens when I think the latter way.

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DaveC, I'm totally with you on this one. I was just trying to add that the physical forces are naturally pushing you toward a heavily weighted outside ski. The harder you corner, the more dynamic weight transfer. So why fight it by attempting to (unnaturally) weight the inside ski? Incidentally I try to keep both skis on the ground and use the inside ski edge as much as possible, but without making a conscious effort to weight it up.

Help!!

why weight on outside ski?

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