 Poster: A snowHead
|
Does anyone know about the status of the "No off piste skiing" signs I saw in the Sella Ronda? I saw 3 of them and had no idea where they applied to. It can't have been the whole Sella Ronda because there were so few signs.
We talked to a pisteur who didn't seem to want to talk about it and we decided it was a way of their not having to take responsibility for our safety. We ignored them, but do they invalidate our off piste insurance? If so, how can you tell where they apply to? (We were there on an "Off-Piste" holiday - most of the time with a guide we took with us.)
This just came up on the "I wear a helmet because" thread and it seems there are signs in at least one other Italian resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
snowball, I dont know about the Sella Ronda but I did see some in Courmayeur this year. They were specifically referring to an area that was an ecological protection site and threatened removal of lift pass and possible prosecution. There were none (that I saw) across the rest of the off piste areas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
We saw such signs in Alba which is virtually on the Sella Ronda, being a sub 10 minute bus ride from Canazei.
It was a smallish, very easy to access area visible from the lift which we couldn't believe hadn't had more traffic. We found out why when someone got warned off by the Police under threat of a fine and liftpass revocation. We hadn't been aware of the sign before that.
Another area nearby was more well used which I assumed meant that it was OK although I also heard that off-piste there was generally disallowed. Clearly, the off piste skiing we were directed to by a guide would have been permissible so it leaves me wondering, like you, where the line lies.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 18-08-11 12:37; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
davidof, It didn't seem to be related to avalanche level. I asked a pisteur why it said "No off piste skiing" and he said because there was a high risk of avalanche. I pointed out that the official risk level had been 2 all week and did he call that high? He didn't answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| admin wrote: |
| Clearly, the off piste skiing we were directed to by a guide would have been permissible |
I'm not sure about that. Our (quite famous) guide had not seen these signs before either and was surprised. He was not a local (he is French) though he knows the mountains quite well.
A guide makes decisions based on the snow on a particular slope at a particular time even if the general danger level in a resort is high.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
admin,Please 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Jivebaby, I think the "why" refers to
| admin wrote: |
| which we couldn't believe hadn't had more traffic |
Not why the sign was there 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wigan, Tks -I'd read it (too) literally
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| snowball wrote: |
| We ignored them, but do they invalidate our off piste insurance? |
Almost certainly. I just spoke to my insurance company and they said that I was covered for off piste on the condition I was not alone and not skiing against local advice or posted warnings. Different companies may have different rules, but I doubt any would cover you for a risk where there was an official warning against the activity, regardless of your, or even a guide's own views.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
http://www.alpenverein.it/de/alpenverein/ergebnissprotokoll-des-eurac-workshops-juridische-aspekte-von-lawinenausl%C3%B6sungen-7_142277.html
http://derstandard.at/1263707010240/Lawinengefahr-Skifahren-in-Italien-mit-rechtlichen-Folgen
Apologies - the above links are only useful if you actually read German but to summarise the Italian Alpenverein in January had a workshop and a legal review of the position when triggering avalanches while skiing offpiste. There is a legal liability in particular if the avalanche is triggered on to a piste/harms people - but just causing an avalanche can apparently already trigger legal consequences. There is also an obligation to alert authorities of any avalanche triggered.
The Austrian paper basically said that the Italian parliament was in February in the processes to pass even stricter laws in relation to avalanches triggered (potential consequences depending on gravity fines amounting to Euro 5000 and longer prison terms when before.) Apparently for negligently causing an avalanche has already been punishable by inprisonment in Italy for the last ten years.
Not sure whether that new stricter law has been passed or not - maybe somebody speaking Italian can google/check that more easily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
None of this helps with knowing where the signs apply to in the Sella Ronda. If it is at the top or bottom of a particular lift does this apply to the particalar slope or all slopes accessed directly by that lift, or the whole area, or what?
As I said before, it didn't seem to relate to dangerous conditions, or slopes particularly affected by avalanches, as far as I could tell.
Almost nobody seems to ski off-piste in that area and you can't hire off-piste or all mountain skis as far as I could see.
This is relevant as I shall be taking another group there in January to ski off piste, the first 2 days without guide and then 6 with the same one as before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Im also looking to go to the sella ronda area in jan and intend to ski off piste. Im confused now whether this is possible or not????? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
"No off piste" signs have been common in Italy for years: so they can have nothing to do with any recent legislation. We've always assumed they apply to the immediate area around the sign, and so go off in the opposite direction.
Locals we've spoken to say they are there to disuade people who don't know what they are doing....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
When in Rome...
Ignore them
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
When in Rome...
Ignore them |
The basics are that due to the large number of deaths in avalanches, including some rescuers, looking for people who have been avalanched there have been some additions to Italy’s CPL’s.
You can be jailed for causing an avalanche and you can be fined up to 5,000 if you ignore signs tell you where not to ski. Just because you don’t agree with them is irrelevant, but being British you’ll no doubt assume it’s your right to do whatever you want, whenever you want regardless of the local laws – Johnny Foreigner and all that.
Yes you can still ski off piste, with a guide or ski instructor, as it’s unlikely that they will take you into a place that it is not permitted.
Yes you can still ski off piste, unless there are signs telling you can’t.
It’s quite simple really. If you want to visit a country as a tourist you have to abide by the locals laws and, specifically, in Italy the laws say you can’t ski off piste if there are signs telling you not to.
Ok there are times when there was a high risk of avalanche and a sign is put up and then, when the risk drops, the signs are not removed; in this case the prohibition still applies – even for SH’s who, of course, are all expert skiers and have completed and passed the relevant mountain safety courses, and been assessed in the use of the equipment that they always carry, etc
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
| Ok there are times when there was a high risk of avalanche and a sign is put up and then, when the risk drops, the signs are not removed; in this case the prohibition still applies. |
Which is why this law is an ass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
When in Rome...
Ignore them |
The locals seemed to be when I was in Selva in January. I have heard about this before and it does seem to be a little random but the signs could be interpreted as no off piste anywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I should add that previously we just didn't ski off piste near the sign but otherwise just skied as we would anywhere else. Our guide did the same, as far as I could tell.
Wayne, you ignored the question which was how do you tell where they apply to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
snowball,
To tell you the truth I have never worked that one out.
As a rule of thumb I would say (may be wrong here by the way) that if you see a sign that says no off piste it will refer to the obvious area that the sign is in the way of you getting to. Hope that makes sense.
As an example, in our resort, there are loads of signs (permanently up) to say don’t go off piste from the top of Monte Spolverino down into the Val Mastellina. This area is famous – it ALWAYS avalanches after every big snow and I do MEAN always. That’s why the signs are up. If you are only there for a week or so you may not know about this, so the signs stay up (even when there has not been a big dump) and the local cops get VERY upset with anyone ignoring them. Mind you that last person killed (2010) on that off piste route was a local who was born in the areas so she should have known better.
I would think that it’s the same all over. Basically the signs will refer to the obvious pistes/areas.
I don’t think for one minute that the people putting them up will not try to make it as obvious as possible. They really are doing it for your safety and for no other reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As I remember it the first sign I saw was at the top of the first lift from Arabba heading anti-clockwise round the Sella Ronda. Back down was very gentle (much less avalanche prone than almost all the main Arabba area towards Marmalada I would have thought - where there were no signs) - ahead was a short link down to another lift. From the top of the next lift there are steeper off piste slopes but no signs. Well, we will go on the assumption that they meant just the skiing from that lift, even though it didn't seem to make sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
