 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
My 4 year old daughter has said that she want's to learn to ski, GULP.........my wife and I ski and our last hol was 4 years ago, because of our daughter, lol.
I struggle looking for holidays as it's a quagmire of search engines.
I'm looking for a few ideas to get me started.
I'm looking for good resorts to go to, a ski schools or creches for her to learn the basics in a nice environment.
The downside, I don't have an unlimited budget
Could you please recommend some good half board options.
Thank you
C
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi CONDOR, no reason for your Daughter not to learn at that age, I started at that age myself, if Switzerland wasn't so expensive with the current exchange rates I'd suggest Wengen, lovely village, Nursery slopes in the middle of the village itself, almost traffic free with great scenery.
However you may be able to get a deal at one of the hotels there, perhaps the Bernerhof which is often the cheapest hotel in resort , I think Crystal may be doing some 2 for 1 offers on Ski passes in the area this year
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CONDOR, you are going to get a lot of advice... so I'll put mine in first!
Not about resorts, but attitude. Think of it as a holiday with skiing, not a skiing holiday.
Your 4 year old will be fine in ski school for the morning, but is, I would suggest, unlikely to want to ski all afternoon. So plan to do other things as a family - snooze, read, walk, swim, snowball, toboggan, and make sure she is rested for the next day. Hence a ski-in / out place, with close access between your accommodation and the ski school is a good idea.
Of course, she may want to proudly show you what's she's learnt, and that's fine too, but it is easy to forget how tiring 3-4 hours of cold, low oxygen content and physical exercise can be for a small.
But you'll never regret it - the sooner the better.
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That's excellent advice, thank you, you are quite right, after a morning skiing it would be great to be in a place where we can all relax and enjoy our surroundings etc...
Can you recommend any family friendly resorts in France/Italy/Austria and any ski schools within those resorts that you think are suitable??
Thank you
C
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good advice from Arctic Roll, and I'd add don't expect too much. At 4 a lot of the lessons are mostly play, but if she comes away loving it count it as a success!
Time of year wise, the end of the season is best as temperatures are warmer. If you are tied to school holidays go for Easter, if not the end of March is a great time.
In France if you still want some scope for your own skiing, try looking at Montchavin and Les Coches in the Paradiski area or La Tania and Meribel Village in the 3 Valleys. Alternatively plump for one of the smaller resorts. Sainte Foy might be worth a look as it's small and compact too . . .
I don't know much about the Italian and Austrian resorts, but I'm sure that someone will be along soon to help.
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CONDOR, Friends of ours have high praise for Mark Warner and Ski Espirit for their all round child packages.
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CONDOR, if your daughter wants to learn to ski, that's 75% of the battle won. There are a number of good places for kids - Esprit gets good reports but is pretty pricey. I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions. I wouldn't go for Meribel Village - IIRC it's pretty far from the action. You want somewhere where your accommodation is VERY easily reached from the place you pick her up from ski school. Preferably maximum 100 yards away - straight back to get her clobber off, get warm, have a lunch which doesn't cost a fortune, maybe even have a nap. Not somewhere you have to walk any distance, or stand around waiting for bus, climb on bus, climb off bus, walk from bus stop etc. then repeat if she wants to show off her new skills for a bit in the afternoon. A gondola down would be just about OK provided the gondola is close to the ski school pick up at the top and your accommodation at the bottom.
Ideally you want a nice easy nursery slope (preferably with a free lift......) right outside the apartment so if she want to show you what she can do but if she falls over, gets worn out and stroppy and demands to go home NOW after one run, you won't have spent ages getting there and dragging yourselves home again.
There are places which fit the bill - you'll get plenty of advice here, shouldn't have to make too many compromises!
(Just don't expect to do much skiing yourself  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I must recomend alpbach, its a lovely friendly village, lots of things to do and small learner slope central village. lots of nice family restraunts and cafes, horse drawn sleighs etc etc, Its a lovely place not the biggest ski area only 50k but some nice varied runs.We go there once a year for a long weekend with my parents and last year took our little one when he was 9 months, everyone was very accomodating and helpful. we are looking forward to our trip just after new year again. My parerts started skiing there 10 years ago and have not wanted to go anywhwere else they love it so much. We organise our own flights(usually lufthansa to munich) get a transfer from a company called four seasons(a cab or minibus is cheaper for more than 4 of you) and we stay at the sonnewend which is a very friendly b&b with gitty a great host, but i think all the hotels are very good.
From what i can gather from some of my parents friends children the ski schools are also very good and i must say the kids always seem to have a great time and usually like to ski with us in an afternoon.
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CONDOR, Monetier-les-Bains is a great village with a friendly English-speaking ski school (New Generation) . Our apartment is close to the slopes, so is easy to get back to for lunch or a rest, and has a heated swimming pool for apres-ski, and a garden where you can build snowmen. Serre Chevalier has a 'Famille Plus' award for it's family facilities. See my siganture for links to the apartment, and further information.
Have a great time whatever you choose to do.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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CONDOR, you have a PM 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There is some excellent advice and plenty of points raised that I hadn't thought about or even considered.....now I think I will have to get my head down and search.
I'm just happy that she wants to do it without prompting......I'm not looking for anything too serious, the more fun the better.
Thank you all.
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We've taken the kids here the last 2 years http://www.kappl.com/index-winter.en.htm Although our lot are older than yours, it has excellent creche facilities on slope (mid mountain). Regularly voted as one of Austria's best for families. Stayed here http://www.alpenfrieden-kappl.at/index.php?id=13&L=1 this year and very hard to fault the place - really was a great find. The thing that impressed us about the kindergatren was the variety of snow related activities the young ones could do - if they get bored or tired with skiing they can do tubing or head indoors to the huge play area. All the ski runs filter into the kindergarten so you can chech regularly on your daughter. If your daughter can't ski yet, you might be better staying near to the gondola - Hotel Auhof looks a very nice place to stay. About an hour from Innsbruck.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you can afford it; use Esprit. Look after the kids very well (sometimes at the expense of the adults some say - but hey; we're adults, we can cope).
Esprit will also (for a price) look after the kids for the second part of th day and WILL take them to ski school for you. Might be worth the budget for year one to get her hooked - worked with my two.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I must recomend alpbach, its a lovely friendly village
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It is indeed, but when we there (mid January) the village nursery slope was soup - really not very nice and the alternatives are all a bus ride away.
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Poster: A snowHead
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and up a lift...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi CONDOR. I'd suggest you have a look at Clubmed in Alpe d'Huez. It's an inclusive including lessons & lift passes and importantly for you has a swimming pool for the afternoons off the slopes. They also have children's facilities as standard.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Esprit often have cracking last minute deals for a family of 3. I would suggest that mid to late March would be a nice time to go as the weather is often warmer and the days longer.
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CONDOR, With a four year old I'd confidently recommend Samoens.
You’re not tied to half term and potentially late January would be a good time to go – better chance of good snow and lower numbers on the slopes, lower prices etc. I’d offer my own place, but with just three of you it may be over budget. That said, a French neighbour has a smaller apartment in the same building and his rates are very reasonable as they’re aimed at the French market so HD TV etc and no linen supplied. http://www.nicetoski.com/16001/221081.html I’m in Samoens next so can chase him if you need a quick response.
I should add that children's facilities, early evening entertainment etc are very good in the village and the English language tuition in the resort is very good and special rates are often given for advance booking outside of February.
Please let me know if you need any help and if you need any help with the research.
Good luck
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Went in December 2009 with the family for the first time -my youngest was 3 (nearly 4). We went with Esprit for the childcare -whether this is necessary is a depend on how much skiing the adults want to do, but even if you just book them lessons and a supervised lunch, you would have either a full morning or afternoon on the slopes. Certainly took the stress out of the holiday -and they can be good value if you book a late deal (should be available outside peak weeks). We stayed at Obergurgl in the Verwall -just 100m from the kids area so quite straight forward.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Samerberg Sue, Nice point and delicately put.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Esprit often have cracking last minute deals for a family of 3. I would suggest that mid to late March would be a nice time to go as the weather is often warmer and the days longer. |
they do but often they are full for childcare and tuition - hence they offer at a deal.
The offers they currently have include free child places which equates out at about the same as their last minute deals when you factor in late booking fees etc. Try an independent agent such www.snowfinders.co.uk and they will do all the research for you covering numerous options.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We've just booked up again with Espirit after going with them last year. Got the free first child place and a discount on the second, so we're happy. Both will be in full day-care as they're both too small for ski school yet, but would recommend Espirit to anyone.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Esprit is good - no question, used them when mini-roll was 2. But afaik, they are catered chalets?
When a 'small' is in ski school, or if you are looking at a self cater option (to get your own lunch back at the flat for example, or time teatime around your needs, as opposed to their "kids time"), not sure they necessarily add value.
As before, when you consider it a family holiday, you want to spend time with your family, get the books out and mope around the flat during the afternoon, or get changed and go build a snowman: so you're not necssarily looking for whole day care. Which again, I do admit you don't have to take with Espirt - but it is included in the price...
CONDOR, you said not endless pockets, which is why I didn't steam in with my home town of arc1950. OTOH, it is the true definition of ski in/out, it has the ski school within 50 yds of the apartments (and which mini-roll has been attending for the past 6 years), it is snow sure, it is traffic free, it has pools and kids club which you can join in if you wish, it has afternoon / early evening entertainments (childrens films, marshmallow roasts, treasure hunts, firework displays, etc. etc,) all included - but it is SC, and probably more expensive as a headline price than the other options listed here.
Pays yer money, takes yer choice!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hey all that's some great advice, alot for thought.
Are there any resorts or departure dates between march/april that may be cheaper than others?
I have never heard of Samoens but it sounds amazing and fantastic for traveling to and from the airport.
Some of those apartments look great.
I'll be honest I have never considered Austria for some reason but I have had a look at Alpbach and iit looks great, really nice.........France vs Austria, SC vs HB...........my head is minced.
LOL.
How good is it to have options though? Great stuff, there is a wealth of knowledge here and you're all so nice to help out
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CONDOR, should you choose France, possibly avoid the beginning of March, as it is still French holidays (they finish around the 10th I think).
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You know it makes sense.
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Samerberg Sue, I was there ages ago - around 1998 IIRC, but so what? Has there been a major change in the Austrian climate which makes that information inaccurate or unhelpful? The point - and in this context it is a very important one - is that if you go somewhere with one fairly low altitude nursery slope in the village and everything else a bit of a schlep away, you could be disappointed. And even if the village slope is in perfect nick, it's not terribly convenient for parents who might want to be able to have a ski themselves and still be close on hand for their daughter, not a bus ride away. Given that there are resorts (in Austria and elsewhere) where that is less likely to be a problem, it is sensible to alert the OP to the issue. "My neck of the woods" is totally irrelevant; I've not recommended it for a variety of reasons. I am perfectly capable of making accurate and relevant criticisms of French resorts too - and often do. Why so defensive and prickly? I don't think Alpbach suits the OP's needs very well. there are plenty of French resorts which wouldn't suit either. You are at liberty to disagree, obviously, but some arguments about why you think Alpback IS suitable would be a more positive contribution. Everyone (or nearly everyone....) has provided helpful and positive advice; why do you feel the need to start a fight?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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and just to remain even-handed, I don't think Samoens is a great choice either - that's a schlep to the slopes, too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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CONDOR, it's not "France versus Austria", it's more "genuinely attractive and historic villages (e.g Alpbach and Samoens) versus somewhere with less character but with more accommodation close to the ski school and nursery slopes and also close to fun skiing for you and your OH".
You will find that no resort is perfect from every point of view and it's easy to go round in circles trying to choose a resort - you'll need to decide what is less important, or completely unimportant, to make a sensible compromise.
And definitely don't go to France in the school holidays. The Austrian-based SHs can tell you which weeks to avoid there. Lift queues are not inevitable, if you choose right.
Another thing to think about (!) is the ski school type, and timings. Some are all day, some half days, etc etc You may find some don't take kids under 5.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, WTGR you have previously stated that you haven't been there since moses was a boy. You are entitled to an opinion but as Samerberg Sue, indicated it would be better if it was relevant, contemporary and factual. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OK, you are all too knowledgeable for me.
Could someone please list the top 3 ideal French resorts and the top 3 Ideal Austrian in THEIR opinion.
Please don't fight folk.....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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CONDOR,
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| Could someone please list the top 3 ideal French resorts and the top 3 Ideal Austrian in THEIR opinion. |
you were right about the easy 1 hour journey, AND you are a smart chap so I'll rely upon telepathy for my answer 
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CONDOR, I think you need to help us, by identifying your key criteria. I posted above that in my view (and I've spent several weeks of my life carting 4 year olds round ski resorts) that you need somewhere where your accommodation is within a short, easy, walk of the ski school meeting place (usually where you drop them and pick them up is the same place, or v close) AND with slopes for more experienced skiers nearby too. For me, being able to have a rest in the apartment/chalet/hotel in the middle of the day, with the possibility of another little ski in the afternoon, if they're keen, would be critical. That way, if your daughter needs to rest in the afternoon, that wouldn't preclude one of you popping out for an hour or so. You can't just "pop out for an hour or so" in all resorts.
I've never had the luxury of "child care" in a resort - there are some places where you can go off at breakfast leaving kids to be sorted out by A N Other all day, but apart from the fact that I could never afford it, that's not my idea of a family holiday. So for me, there would have to be some fun skiing for grownups linked to the nursery slope, so we could drop her off, then ski for a few hours, then pick her up without having to catch buses. It would also be important for me that there's some nice white stuff to play in right near the accommodation. Kids often want to go out and play in the snow, but at that age sometimes just for a very short while, before they get cold and want to go home.
However, you might have other priorities. Your choice of accommodation (hotel, catered chalet, apartment) is also very relevant because (to generalise) there is more choice of hotels in Austria and italy and more choice of catered chalets in France.
I've never been to Valmorel, in France, and there's not a lot written about it on Snowheads. But from what I know of it, it might suit you well - worth a look.
Jivebaby, what have I said about Alpbach which is so "uncontemporary" that it isn't relevant and factual? Is it not still the case that except for the nursery slope down in the village all the skiing is a bus and lift ride away? For me, that would make it absolutely hopeless for a holiday with a 4 year old.
And you don't need to have skied in Samoens to know that the skiing is a bit of a schlep from Samoens village. Someone wanting to ski with a 4 year old in the Grand Massif would be better off in Flaine. (and yes, I have skied several times in Flaine, but never yet had good enough snow to ski right down in the Samoens direction). Samoens is also hardly reliable for resort level snow - that might not be remotely important for the OP, that's what he needs to tell us.
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| CONDOR wrote: |
That's excellent advice, thank you, you are quite right, after a morning skiing it would be great to be in a place where we can all relax and enjoy our surroundings etc...
Can you recommend any family friendly resorts in France/Italy/Austria and any ski schools within those resorts that you think are suitable??
Thank you
C |
Try Pila - have a look at Pilaski.co.uk and contact Carole who will sort you out. The kids (starter) slopes are right in the village.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CONDOR, You’ve received a fair bit of advice, and volumes of it very based upon very firm or perhaps entrenched personal opinions which may or may not be outdated. I try not to comment or offer my opinions if they are not relevant, contemporary or factual: to that end the Samoens area does have several new high speed lifts, the snow making machinery has more than tripled in the resort last year, with significant expenditure on the outstanding novice areas which are all at 1600m. There are extensive, good quality facilities for skiers in this area which is reached by one the most modern and fastest cable cars in Europe 7/8 minutes, directly from the outskirts of the village which is at 700m. There a number of locals that commute daily to Geneva so the roads are always open, and transfer etc are seldom a problem.
I have taken my family to Livigno and also Murua where we enjoyed fantastic family holidays, however whilst I “feel” reasonably confident that another visit to either would be worthwhile, I’d stop short of labouring any opinions based upon dated facts as both my visits were quite some time ago and it’s possible/likely that new lifts, new runs and snow making equipment and/or other worthwhile facilities may have been added or fallen into disrepair (that I am unaware of). If it’s not a fact, I would prefer to say nothing rather than potentially mislead or give the allusion that I am omnipotent. Silence, sometimes is golden and cannot be contradicted.
From a personal perspective the important thing is to provide you with enough information to make a sound decision, as it’s essential that your daughter has the best opportunity to enjoy her debut on the slopes as part of what maybe become one of her earliest and happiest formative memories still held when she’s my age!
I disagree with the brainwashing approach for the “typical” ski in/ski out location. You’ve heard the plus points, and you’ve already said you don’t have an endless budget. Words are cheap but cash is hard to come by.
The downsides for the typical slope side location tends to be:
• Very limited amenities &/or even less entertainment which is not really aimed at a four year old/family unit.
• If the snow is good, the slope side location may be prove to be a difficult transfer and render you a prisoner in your mountainside resort. That’s why Colditz was so good!
• Appositely, a lower accommodation base will usually support a wide variety of social amenities, ice skating, cinema, ice hockey, children entertainment plus a number of restaurants that open at 6pm or earlier to allow families with younger children to still enjoy convenience and fun of eating out as a family.
• Most nursery slopes are not located at very high altitude: 1600m for extensive nursery slopes isn’t unique, but it is fairly high.
These opinions/facts are relevant IMO, however if you find exceptions to these basic "rules" then you are likely to be in St Moritz and will have prices that reflect the "uniqueness".
Specifically I would advise not booking a holiday in Flaine because although it is a great place to ski, it’s nursery slopes, also at 1600m are limited, sometimes crowed, but critically have a continual passage of experienced skiers who often cut through to lifts, bars, restaurants. This is just the way it’s configured at a busy series of intersections, and I wouldn’t take my three year old granddaughter into Flaine as beginner, let alone a novice.
On the plus side; Flaine itself usually has good snow (relative to elsewhere), with a similar snow fall up to around 2500/2600m as Chamonix but the snow bowl holds up better as Chamonix often suffers from windswept/icy conditions whilst Flaine holds its powder better when that happens. For its height, the GM (Flaine, Samoens, Morillon, Sixt) has one of the best snow records in Europe for the past 20 years, which despite assertions leaning into fact can be easily verified. Statistically speaking European snow records also confirm that snow conditions are more likely to be better late January versus March (warmer maybe??)
As a ski resort, Flaine has a charm deficit only equalled by its vast choice of low rent (not low cost) eating establishments and love of prefabricated concrete: think of Flaine as a vast urban sprawl something like Slough or Harlow but with snow: Work is slowly ongoing to remedy this, but unless nearly every bar is demolished and rebuilt, and perhaps more importantly they gain new management &/or owners that take pride in their products and service delivery, then Flaine, snow excepted will never be pleasant, especially for a four year old. That said, I’m equally certain that some will disagree with that conclusion and be quite happy to take their children to stay in Flaine. Whilst this happens, the resort itself will not change, however it will leave the genuine alpine resorts a little less crowded and reward those skiers and families that are looking for traditional charm. The sparkle in their children’s eyes will remind the discerning traveller that perhaps old fashioned family values are still cherished by some people and even more so in special hidden places, so that remarks such as “never heard of Samoens but it sounds amazing” don’t necessarily become common, but something that inspires some people to make the effort to find genuine experiences that children will eventually pass down to their own children’s, children, preferably with a big smile!
I'm equally sure some of the other suggestions will also give the three of you the magical introduction into skiing that your daughter deserves. You may have to roll the dice, but hopefully they will now be loaded in your favour.
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I'd suggest that anyone posting about a resort should identify what their vested interest in that report is..... I have no vested interest in any resort because although I own an apartment (and therefore, I suppose, have a vested interest in trying to dissuade others from coming to clutter up my slopes) we don't let it out. How about you, Jivebaby?
And I'm still waiting for someone to identify anything I've said which is inaccurate or misleading. I do seem to have hit a couple of raw nerves, though.
I do agree Flaine is a dump - but I'd still choose it over Samoens with a complete beginner 4 year old.
As for relevance, maybe I should try to insist that anybody who hasn't spent at least two weeks carting 4 year olds round on their first holiday shouldn't post to this thread?
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FAQ
