 Poster: A snowHead
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I am an Australian skier, planning a European ski trip next year as part of my honeymoon and am wondering if the the trip will be complete without a run down the Vallee Blanche. It is something I have wanted to do ever since I started skiing.
So far the plan for the trip is to stay in Val D'isere for a week and Courmayeur for a week. These two weeks are basically locked in as after a fair bit of research they seem to offer a good balance between great skiing and enjoying the other things one likes to get up to on a honeymoon. The thing is, I think if we are at Courmayeur and so close to the Vallee Blanche that I would really like to spend an extra couple of days at Chamonix so that we can do the Vallee Blanche. By the same token I don't really want to spend an extended part of the honeymoon in an extreme ski/party town (which I know is probably a wildly innaccurate generalisation). We aren't interesting in extreme skiing as much as the scenery and 'experience' of doing a run like the Vallee Blanche.
Now, I know I can access the Vallee Blanche from Courmayer directly but it would seem that I would miss the famous ride up the cable car to the Aguille du Midi and the excitement of walking down the arrete to get onto the run proper. I just don't think it would be quite the same. I also know I could just drive through the tunnel from Courmayeur for the day but I have found a fantastic hotel and restaurant (Hameau Albert 1er - any thoughts/comments/alternatives are welcome) which would seem to be a nice bit of luxury at the end of a long trip which is likely to please the fiance.
Anyway, I was hoping to hear thoughts or comments from those who have done the Vallee Blanche. The main uncertainties I have are:
1) How does the Italian route compare to the French Route? Is it worth the extra hassle to do the French Route?
2) Am I getting too excited about what is really a fairly basic intermediate run (albeit with some dangerous sections)?
3) Exactly how scary is the arrete? It is really hard to tell looking at photos - some make it look like a cruise but others look like sheer cliffs 3000m down! For instance, would a single little slip lead to certain death or is it more just the exposure and scale that is intimidating? I know this will vary a lot depending on weather, but just assume average snow and weather conditions in mid-March. Obviously if it is sheet ice and crampons are needed I will leave it for another time!
We are both competent black run skiers and have skied plenty of difficult runs and chutes in North America so are comfortable that we have the skiing ability to do the run, but we don't have any genuine high mountain or climbing experience at all. We will, of course, be hiring a guide.
I look forward to any replies and apologise for the long post! (I tried to do a search but was unable to find much that answered these questions!)
Thanks a lot!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lazo,
Welcome to snowheads.
Not yet done the Vallee Blanche myself but from what I have heard it is worth making the effort to do it from the French side.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lazo, welcome to snowHeads, and I hope the honeymoon - and its weather - are really successful for you!
You posted in the middle of the night UK-time-wise, so this is a first response of many you'll doubtless get through the day. In answer to your specific queries:
1. I've done the Vallee Blanche twice, from the French side - once in January, once in May. The French approach is regarded as the classic one, as you've described. I believe the Italian entry is easier. As you say, it's a shame to miss out on the legendary cablecar ride up the Aiguille - one of the great historic engineering achievements in the Alps. Why not do both the Italian and French entries, and review them for us here!
2. No, you're certainly not getting too excited. This is, without doubt, the greatest ski run in the world in terms of easy accessibility. Just get the timing right and don't book a guide until you have a great weather forecast, or find a guide who will agree to postpone if you're not 100% happy with the prospect. You've said you're thinking of tackling this in mid-March, which is a very good time. I was very lucky to ski it in January, when it's rarely open, but we got the whole 2800m vertical to Chamonix. March should give you a good chance of a combination of good weather and the full descent, if that's what you're after. Chamonix town is at about 1000m, which is not high, and snow reliability on low slopes in Chamonix isn't the best ...
... but ... it doesn't matter, particularly. As you probably know already, if the last chapter of the run is unskiable you take the cog train back to town. I'd maybe encourage you to ski it in early March, rather than mid, as it would probably be a shade cooler then, but it's only marginal.
2a. The run doesn't have any particularly nasty hazards. When you get to the crevassed section you just take it slow and easy, following the guide's tracks to the letter. The arrete is safe. You just take care to get a good hold of the rope and take it steady. It's actually a memorable (and maybe unique for most of us) experience - an extra reason to do it from the French side, maybe.
Finally, in case you haven't discovered this - it's very buried in a major website - this is well worth checking out: The Vallee Blanche, ifyouski.com.
P.S. Check out previous threads and references to the Vallee Blanche, via the snowHeads search facility (also accessible top left, under User Facilities)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lazo, welcome to snowHeads. 
I'd pretty much echo DG's comments. I haven't done the Italian entry so I can't really comment. There was a long thread about the VB a while back, where skanky talked about that.
The arête is usually done roped up with the guide at the back with crampons. I did it in a near white-out, so it wasn't scary at all - couldn't see the drop!
Sounds like you have the skills and the right attitude. You can't come that far, be so close, and not do the VB!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Done it once, from French side.
The run itself is not very challenging, but it is really something special.
Do try to find a guide who speaks GOOD English and seems chatty. Our guide was not very informative, my friend's was very chatty and frequently stopped to describe and explain the terrain.
The Arete was (I have to admit) pretty scary! The group was roped together and I was the lead person down. The drop off is very steep...fat chance of stopping if you lost it and were not roped up. The next day I had bad cramp type pains in my right hand...I realised it was from my death-grip on the handrope as I inched my way down!
Would I do it again?
Yes!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lazo, It's worth booking your own guide rather than going with a group, especially as you will have travelled so far to ski the VB, there are a variety of routes depending on ability and the guide will vary the route. Don't do it too late in the season as you'll have a long walk back to Chamonix or catch the cog railway from the Mer de Glace. The Albert 1 is a terrific hotel, it was the last time I was in Chamonix, the only place in town with Michelin stars. If you're staying in Chamonix you ought to try some of the other well-known off piste itineries, the Pas de Chevres is seriously scary and there are some great runs off the Grands Montets.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 3-08-05 9:19; edited 1 time in total
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I'd second that tip on the Pas de Chevre - a must, given your level of experience, Lazo. Brilliant run.
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Lazo, do it!
1) I've done it three times. Each time has been from the French side, although once we did skin over nearly to the Italian side before hading back down (we were intending to do some skiing actually over on the Italian side before heading back down, but started too late). The route from Helbronner has the advantage of being almost deserted, so you stand more chance of untracked snow, and gives fantastic views over to the whole valley, but we didn't get such spectacular close-ups.
2) There isn't actually just one "Vallee Blanche". There are about 4 main routes and an infinite number of variations. The simplest is the "Classic Route", but I'd suggest you should go for one of the more challenging/interesting routes, as that is not much more difficult than a stiff blue. The main next ones up are the "Petit Envers du Plan" and "Petit Rognon". From your description of your skiing though you may be able to tackle the "Grand Envers du Plan", the most spectacular and steepest route (I'm told - I've not done that myself). The last time I went down we did a sort of "Moyen Envers" which was wonderful - a couple of sections the track actually ran across snow brideges right inside some huge crevasses (ice walls up 20-30 feet each side of us). No high mountain or climbing experience is required - the guide will provide transceiver and harness for you. Guides will take up to 6 punters through most routes, but only 4 down the Grand Envers. All routes end up with a long flat run over the Mer de Glace before either continuing down a long track into Chamonix, or a stiff climb up metal steps to the railway station.
3) Unless you have a very poor head for heights (in which case why would you want to do it?), the arrete is fine - at least in high season. The exposure make it look far worse than it is - but you should take care and get an arrest in asap if you do slip. (The main thing in high season is actually tedium, waiting for those in front of you in the queue to move the last time it took nearly an hour to get down the couple of hundred metres). Except at each end of the season there is a rope/rail put up which offers plenty of protection. The normal arrangement is that the guide will rope you all up and take your poles. The guide has crampons but you normally don't. You use your skis as supports as you walk down the track which has steps of sorts impacted into the snow by the previous punters.
One other thing to think about is whether to do anything else, as a simple run down any of those routes does not take a full day. The first time I did it we did the Vallee in the morning, then over to Argentiere in the afternoon and down the Pas de Chevre (the other big route in the valley - comes down onto the Mer de Glace from its other side and meets the Vallee Blanche at the cog railway) in the afternoon. If the conditions allow, and you're strong skiers and fairly fit it makes a great day (I'd skied about 10 weeks when I did both). It's not quite as spectacular as the Vallee Blanche, but more isolated and probably a bit more challenging. There are other routes to do around there if you don't want/cant do that - check it out with you guide.
You don't need to book way ahead. You should only need to contact the Bureau des Guides in Chamonix a day or two in advance and book up then (although if conditions look perfect and you're in a holiday week you may want ot give it 3/4 days). If there're only two of you you could join in an ad hoc group, but you will then be at risk of having to do a route governed by the weakest skier. Last time I hired a guide from them (a couple of years ago) the going rate was Eur 220 for the Vallee alone or Eur 260 for a full day.
Enjoy (as if you'll do anything else!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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>> Hameau Albert 1er - any thoughts/comments/alternatives are welcome)
I stayed here for a few days in early December 3or 4 years ago, nice hotel, *VERY* expensive restaurant, the food was good but it was too pretentious for us.
Nice in/outdoor pool, although not that big.
have a good trip!
regards,
greg
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Not too much to add to the posts above.
The arrete very much depends on what you are used to. The first time I did it, I had very little experience of that type of thing and it was pretty scary. I wasn't roped up and didn't have crampons which added to it a bit. Now, it feels very mild. I've done a bit of mountaineering and the exposure, steepness, narrowness really aren't too bad.
One thing not to underestimate is that if you've done most of your skiing in the US, you probably won't have come across anything of the sheer scale of the VB. This does freak some people out. So be prepared to take your time and take it easy. It may be that you both just love it and whup it up all the way down. On the other hand the presence of crevasses, ice falls etc might make you ski in a much more circumspect manner than you would on a similar slope but in less extreme circumstances.
I absolutely wouldn't want to discourage you from doing it - just don't set your heart on doing the VB and the Pas de Chevres in one day as suggested above!
Finally - your comment about Chamonix being an extreme/party town is a bit of a generalisation. I find the atmosphere quite laid back esp in comparison with Val d'Isere!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Welcome to Snowheads, Lazo. I agree pretty much with everyone else.
2) I'd recommend it to anyone. The views are absolutely stunning and it's well worth doing even if the skiing is pretty easy. As others have said, there are other routes down so you may be able to arrange with your guide to do something more challenging. Not sure whether they'd want to see you ski beforehand or not though.
3) The short walk at the top? Absolutely terrified me! When we did it we were tied together - I went first and the guide went last with around 6 others in the middle. My memory is of an horrendous drop on my left but I may be exaggerating. No crampons but it was more than a little slippery.
Enjoy your honeymoon - you'll have a wonderful time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The last time I did it, our guide said that he preferred not to give inexperienced people crampons. It takes a bit of technique not to trip over the spikes or catch them on your trousers etc
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Lazo, Welcome....do it!
We had the most fantastic time, our guide was a wonderful grizzled mountain man who spent loads of time pointing out sights and the climbing routes up the various mountains. The only downside was we went in early April which meant doing the steps and cog railway (how I wish I'd taken the guide up on his offer to carry my skis....me and my pride!)
As for the comments on having a head for heights....Mr HH suffers from vertigo, he hates gondolas, chair lifts everything BUT he had absolutely no problem the walk at the top! The ride up to the Aguille du Midi was another story!! Something to do with having his feet on terra firma? On the other hand I have no problem with any kind of lift and hated every second of the walk across the ridge - from the first moment that I saw a group silhouetted against the sky from out of the window on the way up to the moment I stepped off the ridge I was terrified...and boy did the other people in our group know about it ( I confess to slight tetchynous!)
Have a fantastic honeymoon....hope the weather is perfect and you get the chance to do the run.
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You know it makes sense.
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Done it from the Italian side.
The access is from a little way out of Courmayeur, transport needed. Three gondolas up to the top station (each decreasing in size - the last one is like a phone box).
Get a photo of the disclaimer on the notice board at the ticket office for posterity 'Warning - danger of death' etc
The view from the platform at the top is incredible, the air a little thin. No problem with scary arrette from the Courmayeur side, just walk down the steps and hop on.
There is an incredible ice wall like a frozen breaking wave. Not sure but think this is on the Courmayeur section before the routes converge with the French side, like a 'Y'.
Dont expect complete isolation, at times it can be like a trail of ants skiing down.
Mid March was pretty impressive with the cracking of melting ice far above us on the sides of the valley towards the end of the glacier.
From Chamonix its a bus ride back to Courmayeur through the tunnel, which is now open again (the fire was the week after our gang skied it and only a few weeks after Chamonix's last big avalanche!)
Easy on the Bolly!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Doesn't look prepared there. Once they've got it prepped, there's a handrail, and a track develops with snow up to your thighs on either side. You'd have to try hard to fall off
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd place a caveat on the above information: changes in conditions make even the easiest run dangerous.
Last season conditions in the Mt Blanc area were such that, for much of the season, the Classic Route which GrahamN refers to as a "stiff blue" in terms of difficulty, was considered so risky by guides as to be off-limits to all but the very experienced (or stupid). Having been in the area last season and not being "allowed" to do the route for that reason (despite me being happy on reds and easy blacks), it's something to keep in mind.
You might want to ski the Mountain - but it may not want to be skied....
One other caveat....
There's no easy way of saying this without causing offence, so I'll just say it: As a self-confessed "Australian skier", are you prepared for Alpine skiing? (If I've misjudged your ability on planks, feel free to tell me to go to hell).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mesk1, they definately WEREN'T doing that when I was there first week Feb 05!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Couple of points of clarification to my earlier post:
T-Dub, We must have lucked out that day as we only saw one other group that whole side of the valley. It was the last weekend in April though, so maybe most Italians were sunning themselves at the Lakes
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| just don't set your heart on doing the VB and the Pas de Chevres in one day as suggested above! |
Agreed...conditions were just perfect the first time I went (early March). Got an early lift up (about 8:15), down by about 1pm, bit slow getting over to Argentiere (1 bus cancelled, then a bit of a queue for the Montets lift), so didn't really get going on the Chevre until nearly 3, then a bit of a rush at the end to get the last train down at about 4:30. The second time I did the Chevre (about 3 weeks experience later, in Jan) we skied fairly hard around Argentiere in the morning, then I made a complete pigs ear of it, being too unfit having done virtually no exercise for a couple of years. So it's doable, but a fairly long day. The other point about the Pas de Chevre is that it's very often not doable, primarily due to low snow cover getting down onto the Mer de Glace. Both times I went we did have to do a couple of bits of walking over bare bits.
Agree with Arno's comments re the fragglerock's piccies.
Manda - good point, it all depends on whether there's enough snow cover to fill in the crevasses, and the snow bridges so made are stable. There was a report last season about a skier dying after skiing into a crevasse on the Classic route as the snow bridge collapsed under him (IIRC). This is why you always wear a harness up there and go in groups with someone who knows what they're doing, and preferably a couple of ropes. When the cover's good it's mostly easy skiing....if it's not it's basically fatal.
mesk1, that looks like the point where all the main routes join (although I think the Grand Envers joins a bit further down), it's also the most tricky bit on the Classic Route, so it's always busy. This spot is the one where you really do have to follow in the guide's tracks (and walk/shuffle if you can't ski it).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, yep agree with all that - am definately NOT advising against the Haute Route, just need to be cautious coz some people do get it into their heads that it's just like a pisted run in resort.
Incidentally, the guides I heard from were as much concerned about the ability of skiers to cope with the severe iciness and gales, as they were about the crevasses. Quite put out, I must say, as I'd also read all the good stuff about the route and was very keen to give it a go 
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Manda I think you mean Classic route - the Haute Route is a completely different bag of snowballs!
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I've done the classic VB (from the French side only ) and it was fantastic, but Lazo, you should definitely aim to do the Pas de Chevres as well - if you've done double blacks in the western USA it will be fun and a challenge but not scary.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Wow, a lot of responses overnight. I really appreciate all the effort you guys have gone through to give me some more info.
There seems to be a pretty strong consensus, I think I might just get that hotel booking in now! Seems as though the arrete is really quite safe (and spectacular!) provided I get a decent guide. Speaking of which are any particular guide companies recommended?
One other question, if I were to do the Italian Route and the French Route would I be able to go down different ways after the routes join together or by the time they join together is it just the one route?
Re skiing ability: I appreciate that us Australians don't have quite the same style on the mountain as you guys but I have spent a couple of seasons working in the states as an instructor and am comfortable enough skiing most double black chutes (just not the ones with the compulsory cliff drops in the middle!). Mind you, if that is Glen Plake in the last post, I haven't quite been doing the same runs as you when in the US and Canada!!!
In saying all that though, due to what I imagine is a totally different scale in Chamonix and the fact that the idea was largely to go for the european alpine atmosphere on the honeymoon rather than the extreme skiing we don't intend on pushing ourselves on particularly difficult routes this time. All things going well there will be plenty more opportunities in the future!
Thanks again.
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Oh, and about the party town generalisations - I suspected that my impression of Chamonix from afar would be just that - wildly incorrect. It is mostly based on a group of my mates who spent a ski bum season there. Seeing this thread has been so successful I might push my luck a bit more and start another thread and see if there are any other opinions on suitable ski towns for a honeymoon.
Like doing the Vallee Blanche, Val D'isere generally has been on our to-do list for a number of years, but I do worry that it is also overrun at times.....
Thanks again guys.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lazo, for guiding companies, I've used Denis at http://www.chamonixmountainguide.com a couple of times now. This is just a small private outfit, him and his mate Philippe, but he's a great skier and I trust him implicitly. They speak good English - and Denis was a Philosophy professor until the guiding/instructing took up all his time (and now mostly listens to music by Benjamin Britten in his spare time!). Evolution2 are also good. There's also the general Bureau des Guides.
If you like chutes, you may also want to try the Posettes down off Tete de Balme at the head of the valley (Le Tour). This was the backup suggested to us by the Bureau if the Chevre had not been in condition. There're also some fairly hairy chutes down under the chair at Argentiere, and also down off Brevent above Chamonix itself, but they never look remotely skiable to (or more accurately...by) me!
I love the town. It has the party stuff if you want it, but isn't in your face all the time, and is packed full of good restaurants. Actually I love just chilling out of an evening by the bridges over the river that surges through the centre of town - and one of the best (i.e. most expensive) restaurants in town (l'Atmosphere IIRC) is sort of built into the riverbank. I don't know the Hotel you're talking about, having mostly stayed in cheaper establishments. I believe the French themselves have a bit of a downer on the town as it's so expensive and full of Brits. People who don't like it though mostly mention a slight claustrophobia as the valley sides are pretty steep and go up for ever - so you won't get many dreamy romantic wide open views (although the hotel right by the bottom station at Argentiere has a great picture window view looking doen the valley towards Mt Blanc). The villages further up the valley may be a bit more romantic but then you've lost the evening facilities, unless you tie yourself to the bus timetable.
If you're into gear, check out Snell Sports in the main drag - a gear-freak's paradise.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This doesnt look much fun, more like Plagne Bellcote at 9.15 mid February
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You know it makes sense.
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and hence the reason I've never done it, and really don't want to, much prefer the lesser known spots like Gressoney etc.
regards,
greg
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