 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I'm wanting some advice with regards to my skis. My skiing level is somewhere around the intermediate level, skiing blue/some red runs with what I'd like to think are parallel turns  Two years whilst in Morzine I bought a pair of Salomon X-Wing Tornado skies after testing them on a few long blue runs.
The next day I went for my daily lesson with the ESF instructor and this is where things started to go a bit wrong. I was really, really struggling to make slower turns on red runs so I asked the instructor if we could swap so I could get his opinion. I popped on his Salomon Crossmax 10 skis and off we went down a steeper red run. His skis were fantastic, really light and the turns were almost effortless. The ESF instructor thought my skies weren't very easy to turn and suggested I took them back to the shop and ask them to look at the edges. The shop owner (also an ESF instructor) did and even took them out for a ski himself that evening and said they were perfect. The next day I was still having problems but I decided to keep the ski, putting the problem down to my skiing rather than the ski.
I didn't ski last year and I'm going to Morzine again this January so I've been popping to "the fridge" at Castleford to get some practise in. After several visits I'm finding it seriously difficult to perfom very slow turns (but they are great at speed for longer turns).
I'm considering purchasing the Salomon Crossmax 10 (165) as it just felt as though "things started to click" when I skied on them, however, I can't find a pair anywhere and one review I read said these skis were for advanced skiers only.
So after rambling on (apologies) my questions are, does anyone know where I can find a pair of Salomon Crossmax 10? And, does anyone have any thoughts/comments on the Salomon X-Wing Tornado?
Thanks,
Chris
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 22-08-11 14:34; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Salomon make skies? I'll have a blue one please. And a snowy one for night time. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hilarious…
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ChrisKitchen, now you know how seriously to take advice on here , surprised you aint been asked to move it to a different forum!
could you try some different models at Castleford - tell em in the shop you wanna buy for your trip but want to try some out?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ChrisKitchen, I'd second DB, it could be they were not finished correctly and which would explain they feel pretty nasty to ski on.
Thinking about it I'd say maybe 50% of the time my skies have come back bad, usually because they have been left with burs from the base grind.
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cran
cran
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slow turns on reds?
you should be going fast on reds...
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Thanks for your comments guys, as always, much appreciated. Ellis Brigham have a repair shop within Xscape at Castleford so I'll drop them in there and then take them straight on the slope afterwards and see if they are any better.
Cran - I'm moving up from blue runs to red runs so the instructor liked to keep things nice and steady with regular stops to discuss technique etc... hence the slow turns. I much prefer bombing down, but I'm trying to curb that a little so I can get a better technique before letting the brakes off
Thanks again,
Chris
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ChrisKitchen, I think you'll find that the Crossmax 10 has a thinner waste and so will turn more easily than your skis (though I am open to correction) but have your skis checked, of course.
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I've just booked them in for a review/service next weekend so I'll test them straight afterwards. I haven't been able to find the exact Salomon Crossmax 10 Pilot which I used, so I'm going to have a look at the Salomon Crossmax Carve 160cm skis. You're right Achilles, the waste is much thinner and the ski is a lot lighter as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ChrisKitchen, What colour are your Tornado's? there were some (alledgedly) bonding problems with he shovels (front) of the skis on the older model that made them horrid to ski on. One of my instructors had a pair of Brown/red ones that (alledgedly) suffered from this....
I had a pair of the white ones and they were ace.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ChrisKitchen, Without looking at your skis Im guessing here but as an intermediate skiier your shorter radius turns are likely to be using a lot of skidding so the most likely culprit IMHO will be the base angle. It may be that the base angle on the ski was not ground correctly or a 'shop soiled' pair were given a basegrind and wax to smarten them up for sale, but they forgot to retune the base angle.
If you have a good metal ruler or straight edge place it on the base of the ski and carefully look at the ski edges with the light behind the ruler/straight edge move the straight edge along the length of the ski and check that the edges are actually beveled away from the base. You should have something like a 1degree base angle on your skis. As an intermediate skiier anything less than 0.7 will start to cause you problems and as others have mentioned any burs on the skis from an edge tune will also cause the skis to be horrible to ski.
I would reccomend a look at http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/view/16/34/ or even better still take yourself off and see Jon for an afternoon for one of his highly praised tuning lessons, You may never want to shop tune again. For not much more than the cost of a service you will have the knowledge to service your own skis
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 22-08-11 21:06; edited 5 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks so much for the sound advice Kevin. I've emailed Jon to see if he can setup a lesson this weekend or next. It makes complete sense, I should know about my skis and be able to carry out basic repairs.
Really appreciate the comments guys, thanks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ChrisKitchen, Good choice You will enjoy Jon's session: great advice, great company and good biscuits 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'll keep an eye out for the biscuits, you can't beat a good biscuit! I'll be sure to mention your recommendation.
Thanks again Kevin,
Chris
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This weekend I will offering a choice of either Amanie Milk Creme's or limited edition caramel KitKats 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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That's a tough choice, after careful consideration I'm favouring the caramel KitKat, I think it must be the "limited edition" factor!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CARAMEL kitkats? CARAMEL???
Freaks
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon,
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Amanie Milk Creme's or limited edition caramel KitKats
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I think it must be time to get the quiver killers done
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ChrisKitchen, good move getting in touch with spyderjon. As you were talking about Castleford, I thought you might be too far North to visit him - but you won't get better training and advice. And yes, the biccies are good.
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The Crossmax 10 is an ancient ski (about 6 or 7 years old). Got good reviews at the time, Pilot binding was interesting, I nearly bought some....
Then I demoed them and bought a pair of Volkl 5stars instead.
They are too soft for me, and I have never been happy on a salamon ski, but I have been described as more like a fat German than A skinny Frenchman.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ChrisKitchen, just looking at the specifications of the x-wing and crossmax : you xwings are probably titghter sidecut, but may well be stiffer.
The Crossmax10 you borrowed may well have been a 165 well used instructor's 'pair of slippers' for teaching in.
What length are your X-wings? You may just find that you need to learn to load up the tips and drive them with your big toe...
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| lampbus wrote: |
| .... but I have been described as more like a fat German than A skinny Frenchman. |
You may well say that. Your fellow snowheads could not possibly comment. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ChrisKitchen, if your skis have been badly serviced you could end up with a concave base which results in the the outside part of the base and the edges 'high'. This means the ski will be more grippy than you might like, making slow speed (ie skidded) turns more difficult. I'm sure that will be the first thing that spyderjon looks for, but you can do a quick check yourself by putting a straight edge of some kind across the base of your skis to see how level they are.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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my brother had a never ending list of equipment related issues that meant he couldnt ski. It could be his boots, bindings, skis or googles and we would always be stopping to make adjustments. In reality, he was just a crap skier.
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You know it makes sense.
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If sypderjon says there is nothing wrong with the skis just take the bisuits and go quietly.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks guys for your thoughts/comments.
Lampbus - The X-Wings are 170's. Apologies for my ignorance, could you explain what you mean by "drive them with your big toe"? At the moment I'm shifting my weight for each turn by putting pressure on the front of each boot, via my shin.
Rob@Rar - The skis do have a concave base, as to how bad this is, I'm not sure, thankfully Jon will be taking a look this Saturday afternoon. I'll be sure to report back on the outcome of the session.
BergerBerger - My boots/poles/gloves/goggles are all good and if I hadn't had a turn on the CrossMax skis I probably wouldn't have posted this thread. I'm currently in the "grey area" between beginner and intermediate, I can handle the green/blue runs but I get caught out on steeper slopes and I'm keen to get my technique corrected now before more bad habbits creep in - Hence the reason I'm on here taking all the advice I can get from the experts. Jon might take a look at my skis and say there is nothing wrong with them, but whilst learning to ski I'm already battling with lots of different variables and I want to make sure that a problem with my skis isn't one of them.
Chris
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Poster: A snowHead
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OK; if you have them handy....
Put gloves on as the edges may be sharp (or have burrs) as suggested by others.
Stand the ski on its tail and hold the ski just in front of the toe peice
Grab the shovel and attempt to twist the ski
Repeat with other ski.
Do they feel soft / can you feel grinding/crunching? repeat the same but try and bend the shovel forward and aft. (same question).
The problem I've (allededly) been told about is that the front of the skis were very sloppy / soft and so no amount of effort would get decent turn initiation and make them very sluggish. The shovels / fronts had no grip as little torsonial stability and so could not hold the edge at the front of the ski.
As others have said; it may be concave base as well!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ChrisKitchen, Concaved base is bad new and may well be why you are having such problems may need to be ground flat
Rob will explain this much better than me but to drive your skis round turn the ski on its edge and put your weight on your big toe this will drive the ski round
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ChrisKitchen, I had a similar issue, more to do with how I felt on the skis, balance etc, so a very good idea to see spyderjon, I'll wager you don't need new skis and moreover that the ones you have will suit you fine. The solution, which spyderjon, will provide as he is a guru, will probably emerge after a balancing session, followed by moving your bindings forward by 15mm or so. If that diagnosis is confirmed, I'm sure you can abandon newer skis, at least for a while.
BTW Do your tips ever rattle when batting down a straight, perhaps slightly icy run at speed? If so, I put a beer on the above solution! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ChrisKitchen, what skis have you tried in the past? Are these the first skis that you have purchased?
It is a great idea to get a lesson from sypderjon (and I wish that I lived closer) but don't be surprised if the skis turn out to be fine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jivebaby, thanks for your comments, the tips do rattle. After seeing Jon this Saturday I'm off to Xscape in Castleford for a couple of hours to put it all into practise so I'll get back to you on the beer! (I'm sure you're right though).
Elston, the X-Wings are the first pair I have purchased and other than one run on the CrossMax and a few rentals I don't have anything to base the quality of the skis on. It's really difficult to put my finger on, I'm certain that my technique (or lack there of) has something to do with it, but it will be nice to have an expert take a look and confirm everything is OK with the skis or make the required tweaks. At the moment when things start to go wrong I don't know whether it's me, the skis, or a combination of the two.
Once again, thanks for all your help guys, it's massively appreciated.
Chris
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ChrisKitchen, My beer sounds safe 
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Massive thanks to Spyderjon for sorting my skis out on Saturday, they now feel how I hoped they would. After a few runs at Castleford things started to click and the turns were no longer a problem. I feel totally different about my skiing (for the better). I've still got a long way to go, but it's a step in the right direction!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jivebaby, the skis had only done two weeks & hadn't had any shop work so a bit of dodgy Salomon quality control I'm afraid. Bases had full length concavity from edge to edge & the left edge on both skis had a base edge angle which was almost flat whilst the right edges were a 1. Gave them a few fine passes on the grinder which flattened 'em from the tail to about 250mm from the tip which still had a tad of concavity left - about 20mm down each side of the ski at the tip was flat which is all that's required & I didn't want to remove any more material. Reset the base edge angles, sharpened up the edges, hot scraped the base, hot waxed with Zoom Lime, scraped, brushed & a wipe of Zardoz & they were good to go.
The shop that ChrisKitchen bought them from in Morzine obviously didn't check them that well when he returned them which doesn't say much for their customer service but then this was the same shop that sold him a pair of boots without doing a shell check & which are at least a shell size too long & are so over volume that they need to be so clamped up to grip his foot that the clog is badly disformed. Add everything together & that's a pretty unskiable package. The shop had also set the toe binding to 6 & the rear to 5.5 (Chris's chart setting is a 5) & the forward pressure was too high. I'll leave Chris to name & shame the shop if he wants.
The skis had Salomon's Smartrack rail system so to help initiation/pressure the front of the ski we cheated the boot length scale & set them a cm forward & I suggested to Chris that he tries them another cm forward, especially until he can get to visit CEM.
Oh, & Chris didn't eat any of my biccies so it was a definate win win afternoon
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FAQ
