 Poster: A snowHead
|
Well, this is interesting and I like his thinking... http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/08/chris-selley-when-skiing-deaths-dont-have-greater-meaning/ - here it is:
Four people died at Canadian ski resorts over the course of the now-concluding season — four who made the news, anyway. (Not counting avalanches, of course.) There were two fatalities in Quebec, one in Ontario and one in Alberta. The victims ranged in age from 13 to 80.
Sad, but unremarkable. Freak accidents can happen to anyone anywhere, and that’s a pretty typical death toll for a year on the slopes in Canada. What’s worthy of remark is that all of these unfortunate people were wearing helmets, and that unlike in years past, nobody seemed to read anything particularly significant into their passing.
Let me get something out of the way here. Every time I write about helmets I’m accused on the one hand of being against their use, and on the other hand of ignoring evidence that they make skiers more susceptible to injury by encouraging a sense of invincibility. I’m guilty of neither. Having considered research, personal experience and common sense, I’ve come to the conclusion that, all other factors being equal, helmets self-evidently cut the risk of head injuries, fatal and otherwise — probably significantly. I also believe that people of certain temperaments might be emboldened by their helmets to behave more recklessly, thereby putting themselves at greater risk of all manner of injury.
Both, I think, bolster the argument that people should be allowed to decide on helmets for themselves. Also bolstering that fact is that the risks we’re talking about are absolutely infinitesimal. If helmets raise the risk of reckless behaviour causing injury, it’s still a negligible risk. If helmets cut the risk of head injury by 80%, as one study suggested, that’s fantastic — but the risk was functionally zero before and after.
Two years ago, in the wake of actress Natasha Richardson’s fatal accident at Mont Tremblant — amidst calls for ski hills and/or governments to mandate helmet use — I crunched the numbers and concluded there’s about one fatal skiing or snowboarding-related head injury in Canada for every seven million days spent on the slopes. Among the literally hundreds of activities that are more dangerous are going for a summer bike ride, jumping off the dock into the lake and driving to Mont Tremblant.
If this column sounds like it’s coming out of nowhere, that’s probably because helmetless people haven’t been dying. From a news perspective, someone dying with a helmet on is a simple tragedy. There’s no obvious measure that could supposedly have prevented it, so there’s nothing on which to peg a moral panic.
Helmet purchases soared in the wake of Richardson’s death in 2009. There’s no reason to believe they soared in the wake of a 21-year-old Torontonian’s death at Lake Louise in February — because he wasn’t famous and because, like most skiers nowadays, he wore a helmet.
This isn’t logical. If the death of one helmetless skier makes Canadians worry about their safety on the slopes, the death of four helmetted skiers in a year should make them more worried. It should call attention to the fact that helmets aren’t even close to absolute prevention against head injuries, and also to the fact that only a small fraction of skiing-related injuries and deaths come from head injuries in the first place. By the same logic that makes skiing without a helmet “unsafe,” skiing with a helmet should be considered unsafe.
Instead, there’s silence.
People will say, well, there’s no point not being as safe as you can be, and I have no qualm with that. If I had kids, they’d wear helmets — because they’d have to to be in lessons, because I don’t put all that much stock in the invincibility complex argument (kids on skis feel, and are, damn close to invincible no matter what’s on their heads), and because it wouldn’t be worth the disapproving glares.
But helmet-wearing skiers aren’t as safe as they could be. They’d be much safer if they weren’t skiing, period. Having chosen to burden society with that microscopic risk to their safety, the least they could do is tolerate someone who takes an equally microscopic risk and hits the slopes wearing a jaunty toque.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Seems to be a vital link missing such as whether the 4 deaths he refers to were from head injuries? At the risk of entering into a helmet debate the underlying argument is sound though IMV.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I think the Helmet Debate is over really......just look around you these days, the number wearing them is probably in the majority, and still growing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
have no wish to force their use. but can say I'm damn glad one I had one on given I landed on my head first in fall that led to my broken collar bone. Helmet doesnt make me feel invincible as I don't think about it either way. I think head would have been a mess without it
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Does a skier NOT wearing a helmet represent a greater danger to me than a skier wearing a helmet? No? In that case I couldn't care less whether other people wear helmets or not!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| rungsp wrote: |
| I think the Helmet Debate is over really. |
You've just joined one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Having knocked myself spark out and losing my memory for 4 hours WITH a helmet on (it was cracked open like an egg when I woke up), the debate answers itself for me and my family. If anyone else wants to ride without them I don't much care, I'm not directly responsible for them. When my girls skate, ride bikes, snowboard or ski they wear helmets and hopefully will continue to when they are old enough to make their own decisions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i just dont get why people get het up about this. who cares.
personally i like wearing a helmet, comfier than a had and also can hear my music better..
just dont see what all the fuss is about
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
mugen, quite. I can't see why people are so sanctimonious about it. I don't wear a helmet, nor do I wear a hat most of the time. If I find a helmet I like the look of that fits me and that I can afford, I might buy one. But I don't feel I need to just to be in with the 'in' crowd.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As I recall at least part of the "fuss" is the suggestion that "They" might make helmets compulsory. Hence hackles are raised and fur flies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
There has been a death in BC this season. Last Saturday in Kicking Horse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I wear a helmet, its nice and warm! However, what constantly amuses me about this debate is the number of people who say things like,
"I didn't wear a helmet, but then I banged my head and despite being perfectly OK I decided a helmet was a good idea"
Or
"I got concussed while wearing a helmet so now I'm even more convinced they are a good idea"
It doesn't persuade me either way about the need for a helmet but it is very good evidence that statistics and the scientific method really should be better taught in schools.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| I can't see why people are so sanctimonious about it. |
It seems to me that most helmet threads this season here at snowheads and over on winterhighland have been started by mischief-makers who are sanctimoniusly opposed to them. 
http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,137075
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Having tested mine out, which now has a crack, I am flipping glad I was wearing it.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 19-04-11 7:16; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Doesn't really consider non-fatal head injuries, does it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| gryphea wrote: |
| There has been a death in BC this season. Last Saturday in Kicking Horse. |
AIUI that one was an accomplished skier falling a considerable distance over a rock band in Feuz Bowl in poor visibility conditions. Not I'd guess circumstances where one would expect a helmet to be the critical factor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Regardless of the stats, which you can always spin any way you like, I think it still makes sense to wear a helmet for skiing - if nothing else they do protect you from minor and perhaps more serious cuts and bruises and personally I find them more comfortable than a hat. But I did ski for many years without a helmet and did suffer the odd painful whack on the head which a helmet would have almost certainly prevented. Since wearing a helmet for the last 5 or 6 seasons I don't recall any painful head injuries despite having a few big offs. So for me that's enough of a reason to continue wearing one. Downsides for me are nil.
It's your head, your choice. I would ski without a helmet and in fact still do so in the snowdome simply because my helmet lives in our apartment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| harrisontherabbit wrote: |
| Doesn't really consider non-fatal head injuries, does it? |
I was thinking that too. It's the relatively minor injuries that helmets can prevent eg. nasty cuts and bumps that might mess up your hair
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Groundhog Day !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Bode Swiller, ...helmet mountain-biking saved my life once (seven hours amnesia, consultant holds up helmet (or rather pieces of) and says so...) ... and I wear one skiing not because the evidence is unequivocal (evidence that they don't prevent rotational brain injury but do reduce fractured skulls, particularly in the young...) but because I wear a hat to keep warm, so it may as well be a helmet...
..and a thought...parachuting is an interesting sport...what's the helmet for?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Of course people can die wearing helmets. What kind of dope would think otherwise? Most people who die in car crashes were wearing seatbelts. Doesn't mean that seatbelts are pointless.
I have no evidence to support the assertion that most of those people doing the more risky kinds of skiing, these days, wear helmets. But if that's true (and it's just my impression, looking round at people in ski resorts) then it's inevitably also true that people who die are more likely to be wearing helmets.
So what?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
GrahamN, ....although I was being facetious (and simply trying to bring an ounce of levity to match some very grim tones) your post is actually very interesting (and I am not being patronising). Great account re knocking out and genuinely heroic action to sort it out - pretty fast reaction I would guess.
And there we go....that's what helmets are for in parachuting.
And an aspect of helmets that I don't think anyone has cited (at least in this thread) - and it's a motivation for me - KIT BUYING OPPORTUNITY....YYYYES!
(can we have an emoticon with a helmet on, pls webmaster)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
AIUI that one was an accomplished skier falling a considerable distance over a rock band in Feuz Bowl in poor visibility conditions. Not I'd guess circumstances where one would expect a helmet to be the critical factor.
|
Don't disagree, don't know all the details- but if it was anything like Sunshien that day visibility could have been extremely poor.
I also heard his rescue was made very difficult by the conditions and it took ages to get him to hospital where he later died
I was just pointing out it was an additional death in the stats- helmet wearing or not, regardless
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| valais2 wrote: |
And an aspect of helmets that I don't think anyone has cited (at least in this thread) - and it's a motivation for me - KIT BUYING OPPORTUNITY....YYYYES!
|
Good point. There are some pretty cool designs around now and much more interesting than your average bobble hat 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| valais2 wrote: |
And an aspect of helmets that I don't think anyone has cited (at least in this thread) - and it's a motivation for me - KIT BUYING OPPORTUNITY....YYYYES!
|
Good point. There are some pretty cool designs around now and much more interesting than your average bobble hat |
EXACTLY!! at last helmets are cool and only a complete helmet would wear a bobble hat.. (waits on one of the snob squad piping up)
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I didn't notice any helmets, sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Now that the helmet debate has almost died a death, surely its time to move onto the "full body armour" debate
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
says it all for me!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I think most missed the point of the article, which is falls with head touching the ground is simply VERY, VERY rare! I'd say about as rare as falling in the bathtub.
Let's suppose all those 4 died of other injuries not involving their head. What does that means? Nothing. Or everything! Skiing is simply no more dangerous to your head than driving to the airport! So why INSIST on wearing a helmet while on slope when you don't wear on in the car???
It's fine if individual choose to wear a helmet. For that matter, I do (not all the time though). And some might even choose to wear body armor. Just don't get all judgmental about people who choose NOT to!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| abc wrote: |
I think most missed the point of the article, which is falls with head touching the ground is simply VERY, VERY rare! I'd say about as rare as falling in the bathtub.
|
The frequency with which my googles fill with snow would seem to suggest otherwise at least in my case. Though I do find bathtubs tricky as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I reckon that snowboarders are more prone to banging their heads than skiers (no scientific evidence just a hunch), catching the heel edge is likely to flick you over and your head will keep going after your back\shoulders stop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| TotallyBoard wrote: |
| I reckon that snowboarders are more prone to banging their heads than skiers (no scientific evidence just a hunch), catching the heel edge is likely to flick you over and your head will keep going after your back\shoulders stop. |
It's true, having done a bit of snowboarding.
That's when I "discovered" helmet, and their benefit of keeping warmth much better than a woolen hat.
Still, I skied for a decade before helmet. Hadn't touched my head on snow pre or post-helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| abc wrote: |
I think most missed the point of the article, which is falls with head touching the ground is simply VERY, VERY rare! I'd say about as rare as falling in the bathtub.
Let's suppose all those 4 died of other injuries not involving their head. What does that means? Nothing. Or everything! Skiing is simply no more dangerous to your head than driving to the airport! So why INSIST on wearing a helmet while on slope when you don't wear on in the car???
It's fine if individual choose to wear a helmet. For that matter, I do (not all the time though). And some might even choose to wear body armor. Just don't get all judgmental about people who choose NOT to! |
not getting judgemental.. i support someones right to smoke, even though i hate the stuff. also ski/board how you like.
however i must have imagined knocking myself out in aprica a few years ago.. thanks for the heads up (see what i did there)
also there was a point other than pic one of the helmet crowd.. wonderful ...s
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
i support someones right to smoke
|
Comparing helmet usage to smoking?... really?
I view it as really being the individual to take responsibility for themselves, so none of this "you must wear a helmet" nonsense.
However, i strongly encourage beginner skier n boarders to wear a helmet at least until they find their feet.
Once you do find your feet, it really depends on what your doing and essentially the risk factor involved. Id alway wear a helmet when racing, riding the park, riding offpiste or back country, generally skiing fast, skiing when exposed rocks, etc. But if im just cruising about with slower riders, filming or what-have-you then a wooly hat is sufficient. Without sounding cocky i rarely fall when im skiing, not to say iv not had my bad eens, more so when im boarding, but the fact someone i know had a properly bad fall resulting in head, neck and spinal injuries from something that shouldnt have been that dangerous is more than enough encouragement for me (severe head injuries could if been avoided had he had is helmet done up). Theres also the risk of people colliding from behind you. Your brain is the most important thing you own, you cant do a single thing without it, thats why i like to keep mine nice & safe.
After all if you can look cool as ... wearing a helmet if you chose a cool one and some cool eyewear. The only thing you lose is the wind in your hair.
And another thing, this is a 100% genuine fact, if your trying to be safe and look cool (which for some reason involves undoing your helmet strap), having your helmet on but not done up is as good as not having one at all. Because if your having a fall thats bad enough that the helmet comes into play, chances are the first knock to the ground will take it clean off. And then theres an unnecessary risk of colliding head first into a rock, another skier, a rail, a pylon, etc.
Frankly i just dont understand why people have such large problems with helmets.  
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| cammyammy wrote: |
| Quote: |
i support someones right to smoke
|
Comparing helmet usage to smoking?... really?
I view it as really being the individual to take responsibility for themselves, so none of this "you must wear a helmet" nonsense.
However, i strongly encourage beginner skier n boarders to wear a helmet at least until they find their feet.
Once you do find your feet, it really depends on what your doing and essentially the risk factor involved. Id alway wear a helmet when racing, riding the park, riding offpiste or back country, generally skiing fast, skiing when exposed rocks, etc. But if im just cruising about with slower riders, filming or what-have-you then a wooly hat is sufficient. Without sounding cocky i rarely fall when im skiing, not to say iv not had my bad eens, more so when im boarding, but the fact someone i know had a properly bad fall resulting in head, neck and spinal injuries from something that shouldnt have been that dangerous is more than enough encouragement for me (severe head injuries could if been avoided had he had is helmet done up). Theres also the risk of people colliding from behind you. Your brain is the most important thing you own, you cant do a single thing without it, thats why i like to keep mine nice & safe.
After all if you can look cool as ... wearing a helmet if you chose a cool one and some cool eyewear. The only thing you lose is the wind in your hair.
And another thing, this is a 100% genuine fact, if your trying to be safe and look cool (which for some reason involves undoing your helmet strap), having your helmet on but not done up is as good as not having one at all. Because if your having a fall thats bad enough that the helmet comes into play, chances are the first knock to the ground will take it clean off. And then theres an unnecessary risk of colliding head first into a rock, another skier, a rail, a pylon, etc.
Frankly i just dont understand why people have such large problems with helmets. |
no comparing the right to choose.. grow up!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The debate for or against helmets is simply the balance between life and death. It's that simple, at least for me.
I know that I almost certainly would not be alive if I had not been wearing a helmet- People, (including me) have the freedom to choose beforehand whether to wear a helmet or not, and I'm glad that on one, perhaps two occasions that choice has been validated. Critically the helmet is a pre-ski option that may not always be available through circumstance as an apres ski choice, as the survival rates with a helmet are much better in some circumstances. I was just unlucky or foolish enough to be involved in circumstances when the helmet saved my life. Luck, choice, looking cool, not looking cool, to ski or not to ski. All choices, all maybe fate in the roll of a dice?
The analogy to smoking I feel is only valid for the freedom of choice option, as is the comparison to seat belts: The closer and perhaps more relevant example would be riding a motor cycle, either on the road or or the sake of this discussion, up/down the mountain -The 64, 000 dollar question is would you wear a helmet? The odds are that riding the motor cycle is safer than skiing, perhaps quite a lot safer. Driving at 100kph isn't that fast, although when skiing it kinda feels fairly quick! Those that have a bad head bump wearing a helmet are at least from a personal perspective able to make an informed decision whether a helmet is best for their own personal circumstances. I bet most of them that are around to make the choice now after a really bad smash will always choose, as I do, to wear a helmet through choice.
My experienced/informed guess is that there are few people who did not wear a helmet who would perhaps have wished to engage in this theoretical on-line debate but sadly cannot join us, or indeed anyone else in this world ever again. - The age old problem with death is that you cannot go back and make a different choice as it is already too late to ski that last run once more but this time with a helmet on. I'm lucky enough to have chosen a comfortable, vented helmet, and I really do not feel that I look cool in a helmet. The wind-in-the-hair look wins every time, but as I said earlier, I am equally certain that I would be a statistic, dead skier without my helmet, so for me life, I prefer life with a helmet over death without one.
The freedom to choose in a free society is down to the individual: Without my helmet I would be dead and not contributing this twaddle to the free speech debate. The roll of the dice -I prefer the improved odds with a helmet and Life over death, it's an individual choice and for me it really is that simple.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
. (In the case I'm thinking of, a mate dived down after him and pulled his release for him, so no major damage ensued). Also, for comfort, more experienced skydivers often wear just a padded leather cap/helmet instead of a full rigid helmet (or at least did when I was doing it).
