 Poster: A snowHead
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edited as sorted now
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 22-08-11 19:35; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm guessing if your boots aren't 'quite right' then what you mean is that they don't fit well. In which case it would certainly be worth either making them fit well or buying some new boots that do fit well. Whether or not this could be said of the Atomic boots you mention is something a good bootfitter would be able to advise you on. Whatever you do, get advice from a bootfitter. It's a mistake I have made before and it was painful and costly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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emsie, you need to buy what fits your foot - that makes pre-choosing brand and size redundant, Get thee to a proper bootfitter who will tell you what you need by looking at your feet. You might be lucky and get a sale bargain but if the best boot for you isn't available now then you;d be better off waiting till new stock comes in.
...or said bootfitter might be able to do some work on your current boots, but same answer applies - go to a boot fitter
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for your replies
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 22-08-11 19:35; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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emsie,
A footbed could make it worse as they generally take up more room. You might need a footbed, you might need larger or smaller ski boots. You might need different shaped boots. You might need the shell(s) of your existing boot blowing out / reshaping. You might benefit from a different liner. You could spend hundreds of pounds on your existing boots and still have problems.
As two people have already said - go see a proper bootfitter. If you say whereabouts in the UK you live then perhaps people can recommend bootftters near to you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks DB, so many options!
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 22-08-11 19:36; edited 2 times in total
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emsie - just remember no snowHead worth his or her pointy little hat will ever advise you to stick with what you got (I think it's the first rule of snowHeadism). The next best thing to buying new gear for ourselves is persuading someone else to buy new gear. Since discovering this site, I've sold the house, the wife, the kids and I'm currently negotiating a deal on the two cats to buy what I previously didn't know I needed...
However, the advice is pretty good, always well intentioned and without nefarious commercial taint. holidayloverxx's is on the nail.
Also one of the extremely knowledgeable bootfitters who inhabit snowHeadville is bound to be along soon - heed his voice and his ancient wisdom handed down in secret midnight mountain bootfitter ceremonies where things best not spoken about in daylight are done with buckles, straps, shells, footbeds, fire and foam!
Good luck in yer choice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| emsie wrote: |
| Thanks DB, wow so many options! Think i'll take a visit to a boot fitter, is it good enough to go into a ski shop and get boots fitted? I live in the west midlands |
Depends on the shop, some bootfitters are much better than others (ie, weekend kids at ellis brigham/slush'n'rublle). Lockwoods in Leamington Spa could be an option for you though.
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| emsie wrote: |
| Thanks DB, wow so many options! Think i'll take a visit to a boot fitter, is it good enough to go into a ski shop and get boots fitted? I live in the west midlands |
Plenty of people have "standard" or "normal feet" and what they pick up off the shelves fits them. Some people have the same luck with clothes esp. suits. These people don't need much bootfitting and when supplied with an off-the-shelf boot, a footbed (formed insole) and a moulded liner they are happy. These people don't generally see the need for boot fitters and treat them with the same contempt as herbal remedies.
At the other end of the scale some people have really odd feet e.g. high arches that collaspe, really big or small feet, different size feet (left bigger than right or tuther way round), bone spurs, super wide fore-foot, massive or skinny calves - the list goes on and on. These people tend to spend most of their life having "something not quite right" to " this skiing lark ruddy well hurts all the time".
The term "bootfitter" isn't really defined, as far as I am aware there are no formal bootfitting qualifications. This means anyone can call himself / herself a "bootfitter". The (over)confidence of the "boot-fitter" can not be used as a guage to determine their worth as even a used car salesman could call himself a "bootfitter" (although they would normally call themselves "Master bootfitter executive" or something of the like). Older, dedicated "bootfitters" in a footwear shop/business tend to be more use that the young lad who was selling tennis rackets in another sports department a few weeks ago.
So how do you know what you need and who to go to? You don't know what you need until you see someone who knows what they are doing. So how do you find someone who knows what they are doing - in my limited experience, reccomendations are the best way to go. Finding someone nearby is an advantage as it can take more than one visit to fine tune the bootfitting.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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emsie, ....just a few things. The X wave is an excellent boot made from a plastic which allows a lot of adjustment to be put into the boot through heating the shell. So that's helpful. A bootfiitter therefore has something good to work with using an X wave. So all here speak accurately about the need to go to a fitter. But just a few questions from me. Do the toes on both feet go to sleep or just one? which toes? when you say they rub slightly, where is that and again, is it both feet? What is your usual UK shoe size and what mondo size are your boots? It's good that you have no heel lift.
My feet are a case study.
1 I am a 41 shoe (uk 7.5), which means I fall between the 25-25.5 shell in salomon and the 26-26.5 shell.
2 I have one foot which is nearly a 42 and is thinner than the other (this is a normal state of affairs for many people)
3 I have mild reynaulds' syndrome, which means numb toes in sub zero conditions
4 I have a double-jointed toe on my right foot, which bends back when I heavily pressure it
5 I have feet which collapse in all directions, since I have climbed for years, squeezing my feet into climbing shoes three sizes too small (literally)
Upshot:
I use 26 salomon Xwave, 1080s and falcon10s
They have been blown on the big toe knuckle side very significantly (ie the inner side) which has the counter-intuitive effect of relieving the pressure on the OUTSIDE of my foot (no more numb small toe). Simples...done by colin at solutions for feet, in Bicester (not so far from the W Midlands...).
I use lange inner boots in one of my 26 boots, which gives me a very snug fit for days when I need it. Most 'ordinary' days, especially when standing around looking after tiny ones, I use the standard inners. Simples...just switched round inner until I discovered this one worked.
I have a 2.5mm flat piece of very hard rubber as an insole which fits between the inner boot and the shell and stays in place in the shell when I remove the inner for drying each day. This reduces the volume overall. Also simples...got the insole from a shoe place and cut it to fit.
I do have custom footbeds which I can switch from one pair of boots to another - but I don't in fact think that these (green thermoform Conformable) actually make as much difference as the other factors and mods, but maybe that's just me.
And finally, I run my boots loose at the beginning of the day (making sure they are really dry ... I do place mine on a radiator each night, some people go bonkers at this and say it messes with the thermo-form aspects of the inners, but I prefer very dry inners) and slowly tighten them through the day, if needed. Frankly, running loose boots can improve your technique by forcing really good balance - it's an approach which some coaches use.
If you've got time to give the details which I mentioned above, this could help.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for your replies
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 22-08-11 19:37; edited 2 times in total
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emsie, Another vote for http://www.solutions4feet.com/
Don't worry about buying a footbed once you have got some they should be transferable. I use foot beds in all my walking boots now, I get extra miles out of my legs as a result, there is no going back.
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You know it makes sense.
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jbob, thank you
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 22-08-11 19:37; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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emsie, most important thing is shape, remember that your feet are 3 dimensional and need to be treated as such, it maybe that the current boots you have are fine and just need a little bit of reshaping in the toe box to give space for that toe which goes numb, supporting the foot is important too, if it is allowed to spread out insie the boot there can be a few things go wrong, pain and cramps, or elongation of the foot (the foot spreading) which can cause the toes to end up jamed in the front of the boot without you even realizing. footbeds come in all shapes and sizes from pretty cheap off the peg products to custom made and then corrective orthotics beyond that, so careful selection is required to get the product which is right for YOUR foot, for some people the off the shelf stuff is fine, others require the most supportive custom product and then there are all the levels in between.
if you are trying on new boots be aware that the numbers (flex ratings) do not rn from one brand to another with accuracy so a 70-80 in one brand may feel very different to the same number in another..on the boot you mentioned in the OP i wouldn't go as soft as the 70, firstly they feel soft compared to other boots of similar flex rating (all this is dependant on foot shape as well as boot size/foot size, if you end up in a boot too big then it can feel very different to the smae boot in the correct size due to the leverage that your leg exerts on the shell
good luck getting sorted 
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Poster: A snowHead
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CEM, Thanks for your reply its been really helpful
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 22-08-11 19:37; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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emsie, fitting boots is a two way process based on your feedback and the eyes, hands and experience of the boot fitter, the shell check is critical as this determines the overall space available, then it is a case of explaining what you feel and working with the fitter to get it right...what you don't want is to be leaving with somehtign that cripples you or equally feels like a fluffy slipper as withing a day or 2 of skiing the liner will pack down and leave you with an oversized bucket type fit...it is all about balance and managing expectations and aspirations
the off the shelf footbed (superfeet/conformable/Aline/etc etc) should replace the stock insole that comes with the boot, they should be sized up to your foot rather than just the size of the boot, for example on the superfeet product it is fairly common to go up a size of insole if you have a wider heel or are at the uper end of the size split of the product, a good fitter should be able to do this for you when you make the purchase...they should also cut the product to size for you and grind round the front of it so that it fits neatly into the liner...i know of several places who don't do this sighting health and safety laws saying they can't have a grinder in their workshop 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CEM, thanks for that info
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 22-08-11 19:38; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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emsie, try to forget the cost of a custom footbed, it will depend on brand and who is making them, our top end stuff runs at about £100-£110 and we start custom product from £70, it is not about the product or the price, more how well it is made, a£35-£40 off the shell insert might do a better job than a poorly made custom one
read as much as you can regarding the process and shell checks etc before you go anywhere, adding heel grips is all very well but they are normally required if the boot is either too big or too high in volume in the heel (or the liner has packed down a lot with use)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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emsie, ....just back from a day of meetings.
Right....
Actually all your have said helps towards a solution, I think. Although it is essential to get the boots and your feet to a good fitter.
At this stage, at a distance, I would humbly suggest:
1 if 42 is your biggest measurement on your feet, then the 26.5 shell is right.
2 blowing out the inside of the boot (possibly substantially - which is possible with X waves) will really help with the numbing on the outside toes.
3 remove the heel lifts and this will give you more room in the toe box - but experiment with them in and out now that you've got the canting right
4 your footbeds aren't supporting your arches - hence the ache. Custom footbeds or some preformed replacements (from boots for a few quid) will work.
5 you might try to get some 1080 foot bases (the plastic insert in the boot under the inner) - on the old 1080s these are rubber and they cushion impacts - fit straight in the x waves
...all of this should help, but I defer to colin in bicester (who should be along in a minute - where are you sfs???).
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valais2, he's already been on 3 times while you were out 
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valais2, thanks for your reply
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 22-08-11 19:38; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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emsie, g o t o a b o o t f i t t e r  You really don't need to do all this work and figuring out yourself. It's great that you have such a clear idea of the problems you are having so by telling the bootfitter all that they will sort it all out for you - they will decide if the shell needs blowing, what footbed you need etc - it's their job.
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holidayloverxx, thank you i will do
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 22-08-11 19:39; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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emsie,
| Quote: |
| i'm just trying to work out if its worthwhile going to all that effort for these boots which are 8 years old |
a bootfitter will tell you that too, you won't be expected to shell out (excuse the pun!) lots of money as soon as you cross his threshold, you'll have the chance to have a think about it, especially if you go for a consultation soon ie well before the new season's boot delivery.
To give you an idea: CEM advised me to get new boots (mine were old and far too big) and, as it turned out, I had to get some liners as well, since the liners which came with the well-fitting boots didn't fit me at all. But there was a bit of a saving in that I had some existing footbeds - CEM deemed these to be OK and popped them into the new boots. Result: one very satisfied customer. The liners were, admittedly, a bit of an eye-watering outlay, but they too should be transferable into new shells (in the event that I don't die of old age before new boots become necessary.)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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emsie, ....oops yes, thanks to CEM for advice on this thread...helpful as always
colin will have his own ideas as to whether it's worth messing with the 1080 rubber inserts - I simply bought a pair of 1080s for very little on fleabay. you can email salomon in annecy and they are very good at getting back via email.
but making time to go to bicester to see colin would be a very good idea.
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valais2, the boot has been out of production for some 5 or more years now, unlikely that there will be any left (unless someone has a pair in the back of a workshop)
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You know it makes sense.
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.thanks
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