Skiind around Moguls

A snowHead

Just wondered if someone can point me in the direction of an instructional video or indeed can offer some advice. Just come back from a very enjoyable ski trip where I improved significantly on my turns by learning to use my edges properly when turning as opposed to just slipping down the mountain. Was able to control speed and face down the mountain instead of across it. Indeed by the last day I thought I was a ski god (not really but was doing ok). Even went down a black top to bottom without stopping or falling!!

At the end of the last day some of the pistes had turned into what were effectively mogul runs. Now I had seen videos of skiiers skiing moguls and I know that I probably wont ever have the skill to go over the tops of them with my legs going like pistons but I was struggling like mad to ski around them, I found that my new found edging skills did not work for going round them indeed it seemed to make it worse. Can that be the case and if so what is the proper technique for picking a route through them. I went from being delighted with progress to being a bit disappointed that I was still crap!

Any advice please,

A snowHead

chrish, I can't help with technique tips but don't be downhearted if you are crap at moguls - most of us are!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Pam not really down because I did improve a lot, but it was just the realisation that I actually cant even ski between the bugs never mind over them. I was shockingly bad!

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chrish, An actual mogul lesson will work wonders. I've had a couple and confidently skied mogul runs from top to bottom the other week - yes slowly, yes not all in one go, but I was in control and I didn't fall.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

chrish, Oh, how well I know that feeling.. rolling eyes

Don't beat yourself up about it, it isn't easy at all. I still really struggle with chopped up piste/moguls and I bet if you'd stopped and taken a look around in the middle of your struggle, I'd put money on you not being the only one who was. wink

I'm afraid I'm not anywhere near being qualified to advise you on this (someone will be along soon with some knowledge, no doubt) but just wanted to say that if it's any comfort - been there - done that! snowHead

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I have mixed views about moguls. I like the hard ones (no sniggering!), I can turn on them and do a few before getting out of rhythm. But the big mounds of mogully mashed potato remain a mystery to me. I seem to either sink in them or stop dead, so like you try to 'steer' around them and stick to the flatter bits. Not easy though.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

holidayloverxx is right - take a lesson specifically in moguls. When I did that I felt quite good, following the line laid down by the instructor. Was still rubbish when I had to pick my own line, mind. But it's the best way to improve.

After all it is free

Thanks everyone for the advice so far, appreciated.

Learning, in a lesson, how to do these things was something of a breakthrough for me:
http://www.j2ski.com/ski_technique/Moguls/4_Compression_Turns.html
You can practise them on a flat piste too, and an excellent place to practise doing them rhythmically is on the ridge at the very side of the piste/between the piste poles.

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Life's too short to worry about whether you're skiing moguls with zipper-line precision.

Have a look around. At the mogulled bits of most runs, there's quite often much more interesting stuff left or right in the scrub or between the rocks. There's sometimes untracked snow above the run or some nice soft snow in a narrow strip at the very edge too. It's usually more challenging and it's never as dull as the drudgery of endless uniform bumps either.

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moffatross,

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First, just practice traversing in a straight line across an easy mogul field. Aim to keep your head at a constant height - a bit like a kestrel watching its prey. This requires lots of flexion and extension. Keep practising and then get a bit faster. Then add in trying to keep a constant weight on your feet. Imagine there are some bathroom scales under your skis and you're trying to get a steady reading. This requires you to be more pro-active about your flexion and extension. Keep practising.
Edit
I've just remembered another exercise: try and keep a constant pressure along the whole length of the ski - except the bit that's sticking up in the air of course! Because the boots constrain our ankles this requires a peculiar movement. As we ride up a mogul we need to push our feet forwards and then pull them back sharply as we go over the top.

Then start to add in some turns. Aim for the shoulder of a mogul - not the top nor the col between them. Once you are at the top of the rise keep your weight forwards and pull your feet back and turn. The objective is to get the tips biting into the back of the mogul. Try to contour round it instead of just sliding down the back. Get it right and you will just swing round the mogul and be heading for the next shoulder. If it goes wrong, stop, focus and start again.

It helps if your boots and skis are light and soft - eg. Flexons and park skis.

You know it makes sense.

Moguls are probably the hardest thing to ski well. Instead of going around them, think about going up and across the front of them, turn on the shoulder, then down and across the back. You want really active legs, lots of up and down movement - aim to keep your upper body relatively still with the legs doing all the absorption. Until your knees are hitting your chest, your unlikely to be flexing/extending enough. Keep the skis flatter than usual - it's more about skidding than carving. Skis fairly close together and equally weighted. Pole plant on the backside of the mogul.

All IMO and IME - and I'm crap at moguls too. Annoyingly my gf properly dominates them, she's like a drop of water flowing through 'em.

Worth learning though, whilst hard icy bumps are a mission soft slushy ones are bliss (by which I mean they let me get away with my dodgy technique lol).

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

moffatross, my excuse is that my legs are old legs, and they need to last quite a bit longer yet, so I am not going to put them under extra pressure. Actually, moguls are easily avoided round our area as most pistes are bashed regularly. Interestingly this year of poor snow is the first time I've seen big off piste mogul fields here. I've not skied them though. wink

there is one mogully black run in Notre Dame de Bellecombe which I do now and then, early in the day, just to see whether I can. And I usually feel I'm doing no worse than most of the others on there. The odd young god zips through, but I just admire without rancour.

A snowHead

Thanks some really interesting ideas I think that the idea of keeping my head at the same level is the one I am going to start with because its ups and down like a brides nightie at the moment. Unfortunately at my age I dont think my knees are ever going to be anywhere near my chest, just be happy happy a measure of control.

There were some guys who were clearly better than me skiing round them with absolute control and their skis still looking good.. that would do me.

PS When you refer to soft boots do I take it that refers to the number beside them ie that a 60 is softer than a 90 in which case, as I am about to buy some boots what is a good number to buy for all round performance?

Thanks

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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chrish, I used to hate moguls, but now I seek them out. Though that does not mean I ski them with any style though. I do remember once trying to impress a couple of Austrian girls with my mogul skiing skills some years ago. If was fortunate one of them was willing to help me down to the Mooserwirt with my cracked ribs.

Anyway some thoughts...

Don't try to carve round them, turn on top of the bump when you will be lightest. Carving is great. But not really in moguls. Keep the skis flat. Get used to pivoting quickly.

Skis closer together. I don't mean in classic old school glued together style, but a bit closer than normal, equally weighted.

Use the side of the bump as you go up it to slow down.

Like others have said you upper body and your head needs to be steady, absorb the rising and falling with your knees and feet, push down as you come down the mogul and absorb the impact as you go up the mogul. This will keep speed in check and prevent too much lift off. Of course some lift can be fun... if you have figured out where you are landing.

Use your poles. Clear pole plants are even more important in moguls to keep things moving and set a rhythm.

That's what I reckon anyway.

Spring is a great time to play in moguls as they a. tend to be softer and b. tend to be quite a few of them towards the end of the day!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

chrish, at this stage, your first thing is to learn how to absorb the bumps. Try traversing across little mogul fields and simply absorb the undulations.

According to ho who knows, the Small Zoo Keeper, anything less than a flex of 90 is too soft and probably made of inferior materials.

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A useful mnemonic given me by an instructor was SSS - Stab (your pole) Swivel (on the bump) Scrape (down the backside).

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Chose your line, then try to ski it as slowly as possible, combining the above two ideas...

After all it is free

altis, thats a good description. I'd add that I once borrowed some soft 1080's a few years ago whilst my ski's were getting a service and found it a lot easier than hard piste ski's. For early/starter skiers its good to learn to finish/close your turns to take off speed on steeper slopes otherwise its very easy to gather too much speed. For me this was the hardest bit to "get" for a while. One tip I use is to take the line that you would imagine water running down the slope, this is good as it makes you look further ahead than normal.

Frosty, thanks! It's nice to get some kind comments.

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Have a look at this vid. Pretty easy to understand.

http://www.bumpsforboomers.com/mogul-skiing-technique-and-powder-skiing-technique

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snow reports

I had a very, very gentle introduction to moguls this year. FWIW they were only small moguls and my instruction was to try to use the short turn technique that I had been using to go between them. I was instructed to stop at the top and plan a route down then to use my active short turn technique to go round the mounds. It could be that on larger ones a different technique going over and turning on the mogul would be better, or it could be that going round the moguls was just an exercise to practice these new short turns.

Pivot like a madman/woman, forget about carving (although not about edging). Stab the moguls with your poles like they're rabid marmots.

You know it makes sense.

A little bit of aggression goes a long way in the moguls, and as others have said practise running across them to get used to absorbing the bumps. If you look at people who can really ski moguls their knees are pretty much up to chest height as they absorb the bump.

Imagine your legs are the suspension system on a bike/car and let them absorb the bump. Also as you start to learn use the back of the mogul to check your speed.

Best of luck, get to love them instead of avoiding them Smile

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Another exercise that is really useful is to buddy up with a skier of similar skill. Get them to ski as normal down a piste and try to follow them turn-for-turn a couple of metres behind. Don't turn in the same place as them - turn at the same time. Notice how your attention is focused on them and when they are going to turn so your legs have to just react to what's under your feet.

Now move to some more undulating territory and repeat the exercise. It's much more difficult because you're turning in all the wrong places. Hopefully, your legs will get used to just absorbing what's thrown at them and stop trying to brace all the time.

If you're going to try this on really rough ground then make sure it's soft! Last summer, I wiped out in spectacular style when our trainer got us to try this on some slush moguls. My knee reached my chest and had nowhere else to go.

A snowHead

I've been trying not to join in but with my name I have to say something!
First we are talking about piste skiers getting down piste moguls (as opposed to competitive athletes skiing a rut line)

The main fault I see is hands moving too much and falling back (I do judge mogul skiing). Remember the 'hold a tray' exercise. Keep hands forward and don't box as you pole plant. Quiet upper body with only wrist action. Don't let one hand drop or the weight goes back, shoulders turn and you hit the deck.

Try some small bumps skiing slowly in control. Pole plant near the top of the bump, pivot and slide down the back. We do mark pivot and slide down in competitions but its a good beginner technique. Once you get thre hang of that you can try to carve which is what the top athletes do.

Please try to ski in the fall line even for a short time as poeple traversing across really wrecks the line.

I don't claim to be an expert practioner but I can watch and judge!!

A snowHead

adie, I'd say that aggression is possibly counter productive?

+ though comp bumps skiers really have knees pretty high up, in most piste bumps the to the chest thing is often a product of the viewing angle being from below.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Some things I discovered about moguls recently:

A thing nobody has mentioned is to turn on the tops of the moguls because when your skis are so that your weight is on the middle of the ski and sitting on the top of the mogul then most of your ski is not touching the snow, so it's much easier to turn. And as it's the top of a bump which you've had to go up, you can be virtually stationary at that point.

No edges. Edges make you go faster. You want the skis as flat on the snow as possible as that slows you down.

IMO there is little more impressive than watching an elderly Frenchman skiing moguls very slowly, entirely in control - and making far faster progress down the mountain than somebody who isn't in control....

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James the Last,

yes, turn on the top. The technique is known as "avalement". You do have to absorb the bump though, which is a basic skill that requires practice.

No, you do want edges:

1. you can put in a check at the top of the bump to assist with speed control

2. you want to scrape off speed with your edges as your skis slide off the bump you were on and onto the next one. Definitely - you want edges.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

chrish, Go to the EoSB in Val Thorens :
the EoSB has become known for the very high standard of instruction available, and we expect to have most of the same guys back again. Last year we had three of the best instructors you'll find anywhere fixing your bad habits and giving you good ones, looking exclusively after us that week (and if you think that's hype, go read the feedback from past years )
Groups and private lessons for all standards, bumps and off-piste technique clinics at both introduction and improver level.
See you then!!!

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^ ^ ^ Wot he said! Very Happy

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

mcspreader, if you are traversing a bumps field you will by definition be using edges. And you will be contributing to screwing up the bumps.

So as a novice if I should be confronted by a respectable field of bumps and no other option am I likely to proceed down them better if I go slowly or are they easier to ski with a bit of 'go' behind me. I must confess I still live rather in fear of such a confrontation, perhaps more so than a bit of flat slope that is too steep (as I could side slip such an area with no other option), hence asking for a gentle introduction during my last lesson.

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If you traverse across the bumps one way you make a track across the mogul field that wrecks the fall line that (some) people are wanting to ski. Often on piste the moguls are not rounded bumps but elongated ones where the 2 lots of traverses cross.

I've got a good picture of competition bumps but don't know how to post it here. Please advise.

Help!!

Skiind around Moguls

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