 Poster: A snowHead
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Update:
Great advice on here but in the end I went with my instinct and bought Atomic Race STs (slightly wider and softer than SLs). See http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=76779 for review 
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Me: 5th year of skiing, making progress, but still lots and lots to work on, not carving yet, and rather slow, but in good conditions I'm happy on most reds and starting blacks. Female, tall but ridiculously thin and lightweight.
Looking for: One set of skis to use on all-round piste conditions (no real interest in off-piste yet, have enjoyed a bit of easy touring but will continue to hire for that). Something I can “grow into” ability wise for a few years, but still be able to cope with from day 1.
Prefers: Short radius, turny, grippy. Not a speed freak at all, happy to sacrifice stability as well for a short grippy ski.
Experience so far: Due to my height ski hire shops in my first few years have shoved 165cm skis into my hands and I’ve always just used them and known no better. However earlier this year I borrowed 155cm, v.stiff, Atomic SL11 skis from a friend, used them in Italy, and it was an absolute revelation. I had so much more control and confidence than ever before. This may sound silly but I was in control of the skis and the turns all the time, not wrestling with skis or being controlled by them. (But the snow conditions were ideal so that helped.)
I then borrowed 168cm chunky Volkls from somebody else to use in Scotland and completely regressed right back to my previous form  . Surviving, not skiing, struggling to turn in narrow spaces, however the snow was freeze-thaw ice mainly, so perhaps not a fair comparison, and I know I need to improve my unweighting 
Dilema: Hand keeps hovering over the mouse to buy some Atomic ST or SL. (Schuss In Boots is particulalrly interested in the SL D2 W for similar reasons and may join this thread).
~ But is that a stupid idea for my only ski? I’m hoping to hire a set of Atomics in VT on the EoSB and try them out in the afternoon slush conditions to answer this one!
So, your thoughts please…
~ If I can’t hire Atomic SLs in VT what other similar ones, of other brands, should I look out for?
~ Can anybody recommend other skis to hire and try out in VT that could give me the short radius, control and grip I’m after, but be better suited to a wider range of snow conditions? (Common ones a hire shop may stock!!) Ideas so far: Head Supershape, K2 Luvs (but which?!), and which ski "shorter" than their actual length?
( Or does anybody think I should just buy some SLs now, stop dithering, and just hire (or buy?!) other skis when I'm ready to start trying more off-piste, or if I find its hell in slush? If so where can I find discount/last season race skis?  )
Huge thanks to anybody who actually read this far!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 19-05-11 23:35; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a pair of SL skis as my only piste skis but I also have a fatter pair as my everyday pair. I ski the fatter ones on and off-piste anytime the snow is soft and the SLs only when everything is rock hard. I don't think I would like to have only the SLs.
Have you tried some women's all mountain skis. Being light and tall women's skis would probably be ideal for you. I think your height should determine the length of ski, so somewhere in your face, and lighter people should ski softer skis while heavier people ski stiffer skis rather than just going shorter because you are so light. 155cm skis will turn very easily as they are so short but might not be great as your only ski as they might be unstable if you have fresh snow which you will encounter even if you only stay on piste.
I'm not great on women's skis but www.theskidiva.com will have a lot of reviews
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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wigan,
Not a whizz on different skis etc. But reading your post it strikes me that you have got on very well with some skis but not others but not sure how much the conditions have mad a difference and possibly length /state of tune.
If I was looking to buy in this scenario and going to Val Thorens at the end of the season I would hold off untill then, then go round the shops and see what is on offer. There will almost certainly be large end of season discounts if you speak to them. You will also be able to try out skis before you buy and test them in at least early morning ice , late afternoon slush, midday pleasantly softened piste and if you are lucky some fresh snow. This should give you a good idea of what you and the ski can do together.
I bought a pair of skis last year at the end of the season from a shop in resort whose price the online shops are not getting down to yet after P&P.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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wigan, my wife has a pair of K2 Lotta Luvs at Zenith Ski Shop in Val Thorens. She no longer uses them due to being dragged off piste with me. If they haven't sold them yet you're welcome to try them in resort.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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wigan, IMHO you potentially would benefit from contact with spyderjon and a balancing session. The Atomics are set more or less in the same positions as Salomon's so perhaps worth a look.
You've mentioned slush and off-psite so the Atomic Seventh Heaven 79 which come in with 150,157 and 164 would be worth a serious look, and I don't think you would be dissapointed at <£350.... Alternatively the 76 is avaliable at around <£250 in the sales.
For the slush get hold of a Zardoz "not-wax" puck which transfroms skis in the warmer conditions and virtually eradicates the gut wrenching stutter when the skis hit a damp/wet patch - I'm always nervous about my knees/ACL etc and slush is my room 101 so I now never ski without it in my backpack.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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wigan, Great post, hopefully you'll get some good replies to help you with your decision. 
Interesting update from my perspective: I've been down to Filarinski's (local ski shop to me) a couple of times recently to get various issues sorted, with both my boots and my skis. The wonderful Marco has been an absolute star - and spent ages talking me through stuff and fiddling with my feet and my off-centre skis. He has adjusted the boots, sorted out new footbeds and finally last night at Hemel, I had a pain free ski. I can't remember the last time that happened.
Anyway, relating to the thread topic... Marco had mentioned several times that he thought the Head Great One would be a good choice for me. But since I had convinced myself that I wasn't looking for an all-mountain ski, and had never skied any Heads at all, I wasn't sure. Yesterday, he staked his reputation on it and bet me that I would love them - or they'd take them back. They are even happy for me to take them to Tignes in a couple of weeks time and if I didn't like them they would take them back - minus a rental charge - more than fair in my book. I took them to Hemel last night.... and..... I LOVED THEM! Took me a few runs to get the hang of them - they were quite lively and it was a bit chopped up - but I came off the slope with a massive smile on my face so I can't ask for more than that.
I'm looking forward to giving them a proper trial in Tignes. You never know, I might even be able to stay out of the bars for a bit longer.
I guess the moral of this story is that it is well worth trying out different skis, different lengths as well as different styles. I'd been turning myself inside out trying to work out what I needed and in the end, it seems, all I needed to do was listen to a man wot knows his stuff.
I've got to pop down there in the week to collect the Mayas, I could show him your post and ask him what he would suggest for you if you'd like me to?
Edit: I started writing this and got interrupted, my first sentence doesn't reflect the replies that have come in the meantime... 
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Wow, thanks for such useful replies so quickly everybody.
| lynseyf wrote: |
| ...SLs only when everything is rock hard. I don't think I would like to have only the SLs. |
That’s what I suspected might be the case for people who have them, but was wondering if anybody would say otherwise. Thanks for the Ski Diva link, looks an interesting site, I’ll read the blog.
T Bar, Well précised, that’s my situation spot on! I will definitely need to browse VT, and try out demo gear. I still think I’ll look for a SL pair to hire as my base pair for the week, then try out a couple of others as I go, to compare).
BobinCH, noted, thanks, I’ll look out for them!
Jivebaby, Thanks, I’ll add Atomic Seventh Heaven to the list to look out for and try in VT. Just read about them on Schuss in Boots’s, beloved Filarinski site.
Schuss in Boots, Great! So glad you’ve found something you like! I hope they live up to it in Tignes and look forward to admiring them in April If you don’t mind askin him that would be great. I’d like to have a list of possibilities to look out for, see what’s in the shops that I can try in VT. The only place near me that I could borrow from before VT is S&R at Chillfactore, I might pop in, they appear to have a good range of the K2 Luv models .
Any other suggestions welcome!
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wigan, it's worth contacting Andy at Storm. The inferno may be worth consideration.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the suggestion Dot., I'd never considered them but they look interesting. I'll look into that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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wigan, when are you in Tignes/VT?
I have a set of Infernos; (in a 165 with Vist 614 bindings on them fitted for a 307bsl) - which you might be able to get on if you're in the area and your bsl is about that mark - (which it probably will be given your stats).
The Inferno in a 165 is quite a stiff/strong ski (it has a dual ti layer), but after a few runs you'll love it!
Cheers
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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wigan, Get in touch with Andy, he is a really helpful chap, if you search out the Storm Skis thread he is on there so you can PM him (he's out in the Alps at the mo so maybe not an instant reply). My Storms are fantastic skis, bought with the idea of one ski for everything and from limited playing in the Tamworth fridge (too long for my ski bag when I picked them up the day before my half term trip to the mountains)
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OK....little bit of anarchic input...firstly, I've been on skis for longer than I care to admit to, and skied with people who are 'rather good'. At 5 foot 7 and 145 pounds I am a featherweight skier who like to ski with technique rather than brute force (which sounds a bit like your description of yourself). I usually ski 150 slalom skis, 160 piste skis and 165ish fat twintips. I've skied all sorts of things and then found myself needing to use very short skis to help my (then) three year old onto lifts etc. So I dug around in the garage and instead of using my 150cm rossignol slalom skis, I got out some old salomon 145cm scramblers (which were my partner's rock skis). They are delaminating at the rear and the bindings are rental sh**e; no lifter plates or anything posh at all. In fact they cost 20 quid on ebay, originally. These should be rubbish skis. Except with the short length and wide shovel at the front I found that I was carving everywhere as if I was on rails. So I tuned them up (89 degree edge, hand tune) and p-texed the bases. OMG...I could hold an edge on virtually every surface around our mountain (Valais Alps). So I started messing about with all the skis in the garage. pair of Volkl 4 stars. Same experience as you. Should have had huge amounts of edge grip. But bindings are rearward mounted whereas the scramblers are more centrally mounted - goodness I had to work hard to keep it all together. Onto rossi 9s 150 - wonderful, smooth, grippy, but not that much better than the scramblers - although held it together better in crud. OK, they are race bred and I know them inside out - they are VERY good. But the scramblers come ridiculously close. Then I got out the Crossmax 160s. AArgh, lots and lots of work compared to the scramblers. OK- so needed to go to Meribel for a day - took some new 150cm Volkl Sensor 2s to try and the 145cm scramblers. Worried about rocks so spent a day really tearing about on and off-piste on the scramblers since I didn't want to tear the Volkls to pieces - again, they were brilliant, particularly in the Val Thorens mogul fields. They let me down on one section of crud which, with their construction and weight, the rossi 9s would have just crunched through. But they did VERY well. And here's another piece of the jigsaw - as a favour I bought my mate Ant some Pocket Rockets. Should be rubbish at carving. Only with alpine platforms and 165 length (equating to 155cm bec of the rear tip) he was carving A LOT - more than I have ever seen him - and like he was on rails. He usually skis a 165-175cm standard piste ski (equating to a 175-190 twintip). RIGHT....what this tells me about what you might need is - (and remembering that FSI started restricting short skis and imposed a minimum length - why you have to ask yourself) is GO SHORT. If you want to really grab the zen of the edge, go short. Really short. SHORT SHORT SHORT. You are talking on-piste only. Get fat tips. Narrow waist. GO SHORT.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks for the offer fr0sty! I'm not going to Tignes I'm afraid (that's lucky old Schuss in Boots, ) but I'll be on the EoSB in VT last week in April, are you? Apparently admin has them in 165 as well so I certainly hope to try that length somehow, but suspect I'll still prefer something shorter.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks davkt, I will do.
valais2, pheww. Errr, being a bit of a ski numpty I didn't understand all of that but yes, am still inclined to short, but shall try whatever I can get my hands on in VT or in a fridge before and see what clicks.
You mention bindings being centrally / rearward mounted... Jivebaby, mentioned something earlier as well... I didn't realise that bindings were fitted to different skis in slightly different positions and that it made a difference. Can anybody explain in simple terms how that works?
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Poster: A snowHead
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valais2, That makes some sense to me. When I first tested the Atomic D2 W, it was in a 148 - loved 'em. Felt like I was on rails and could put them anywhere and they'd forgive me. Not so much of that feeling on the longer version I tried in Arraba and I had to work harder to achieve the same (although it was the mens version - so I put it down to that).
wigan, If you prefer short - then ski short. At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong ski. Only the right or wrong one for you. If possible, it would be worth trying the same ski in different lengths. This will either prove or disprove your theory. At least then, you'll have a clearer idea what you're looking for and can narrow the search.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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...sorry...get a bit long-winded sometimes. Bindings used to be mounted a long way back on skis...they've moved forwards year after year with some manufacturers - eg salomon - moving forwards faster than other manufacturers. Atomic (eg Metron B5s) allow you to play with more central positioning - and I prefer it. Compare them in the racks in the ski shops or hire places. On twintips I still prefer 'classic stance' (slightly, but only slightly rearward) rather than dead centre (which is for low-crotch youths landing switch). And re ski length I can really relate to schuss in boots - I skied a pair of salomons in 150 - they were really good - then same model in 165 - really hard work. If you really liked the 155cms do not be convinced into going longer unless you can try the longer version and find out if genuinely it suits you. The lesson I have learned is go short...and you may have to argue with the guys in the ski shop...but go short if it suits you well. It certainly suits me. 145cms for me sounds madly short, but I can keep up with those on longer skis since I can carve so much more of the time - and I mean really carve, bang on the edges.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Schuss in Boots, ah! I'd thought you were talking about the D2 SL (race slalom skis). It was an older version of those that I borrowed for Italy from R's rather-better-than-me-at-skiing sister.)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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valais2, Wow, do you talk like you write? Why not throw in a couple of paragraph breaks.
BTW how long can you hold your breath.
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..para breaks...pah...I spit in the face of paragraph breaks...stream of consciousness writing is THE thing...(actually I talk really slowly - I go on the radio quite a bit and if you talk fast you sound MAD - I just like writing stuff in a quickfire fashion sometimes. I might post an article on summer skiing which I have just done....that's in a very different voice...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If anybody is interested in trying Storm skis...
Andy David replied super speedily to say that they
will have numerous tests running over the coming months at most of the domes.
But...
due to our truck blowing its head gasket on the way from Tignes to Cham last week ....we now have 45 pairs of demo skis stranded on the back of breakdown lorry somewhere between the south of France and the UK
They will fix exact dates when they get their skis back!
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wigan, Oh dear... poor Andy David.
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You know it makes sense.
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wigan, I have a pair of Infernos in a 155, which you are welcome to try out at the EoSB if I go and luggage allowance stretches to 2 pairs of skis
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ooooh, thanks Batman_123,.
Can I be nosey? If your luggage allowance is only 1, what will you take?
(I'm not asking to try it!! I'm just interested in what you'd pick if you had to just ski one thing all week  )
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Poster: A snowHead
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wigan, unless I was planning on spending a full week on piste, I'd take my Dynastar Sultan 94s, which I absolutely love although they took a few days to get used to. Bought them having previously skiied the 85s which I also enjoyed skiing but much prefer the 94s although whether that's because they're mine and not hired, or because they're longer than the 85s I skiied, or because I prefer the ski itself rather than the prep and length I don't know! If you're looking for a piste ski only, the inferno is quite a good one, was definitely glad of them in Alpe D'Huez over New Year this year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wigan, sorry that should have said next in Tignes/VT. Currently the EOSB is a no-go I'm afraid, so you may have to rely on admin (or one of the several others) who also own a pair. However, you never know I may make it, in which case I'm more than happy for you to have a play around on them.
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FAQ
