 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
some of you may remember that my husband and I had a fairly rubbish holiday booked with DirectSki in early January.
Well just wanted to let you all know that we put our issues/complaint to them in writing, and, nearly a month has gone by without even an acknowledgement.......... not impressed.
I have re-sent the letter with further comments, clearly they have no interest in after-care or complaints made by thier customers, we will definately be informing everyone we know who ski's about this serious lack of care.
I work in a customer based environment and if i treated my customers like this i wouldn't have a business to work for................
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Titus Pandora ...
We wait with baited breath
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Might be best to send letter to MD or CEO of direct (by registered post), can't remember his name, but someone on Snowheads will hopefully
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Was it Direct Ski that bought Ski Beat earlier this year? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's amazing the coincidence that all the complainers on here work in "customer-based environments" - as if that gives any validity to their arguments.
To be perfectly honest, the it says more about people who work in customer-based environments than the "rubbish holidays" caused by these profit mongering excuses for tour operators.
I must havee missed the original thread that this customer services expert refers to - i'm off to search
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Hi all,
i don't want anything just an acknowledgement would be nice!........ which i don't think is much to ask?!!!
It's amazing the coincidence that all the complainers on here work in "customer-based environments" - as if that gives any validity to their arguments. ----------what?! i will only say one thing to that, half the problem with the general standard of customer service in this country, be it in a shop, restaurant, wherever is that as Brits we tend to just 'put up with it' maybe if more people complained things would improve.......... its comments like that which sometimes make me reluctant to put things on this forum.....
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you dont have to
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Anthony COllins is the MD name
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thanks! will drop mr collins a line................
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[quote="cbowls30"]
i don't want anything just an acknowledgement would be nice!........ which i don't think is much to ask?!!! quote]
No if you read your OP, you say you want the whole skiing world to know that one out of the thousands of people who had ski holidays with whoever the company was didnt have a good time.
By the way, have you read every email in your in box in the last month ? Not one get missed, or deleted by accident, or intended to get back to but nevr quite got round to it for perfectly reasonable reasons ? I know i do.
But of course, in a customer focussed environment one never does miss anything does one - everything just goes swimmingly well ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm a Customer Services Manager and I know how to make a complaint 
FWIW
1. Be reasonable
2. be clear on what you want
3. Don't take it out on the first person who answers the phone
4. Empathise with whoever you talk to
Trust me, from the other side of the fence, someone I can have a conversation with is going to get more out of me than a ranting loon
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not a bad idea to let Anthony collins the outcome of this thred is being followed with interest here
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Lets look at numbers...
According to a mate who works somewhere 'within the industry' he reckons a major TO makes £6 per punter on a summer holiday, and a 'bit more' on the winter holidays - even if we say a 'bit more' is say £20 then that's not a lot of dosh per punter per trip. Given the vast majority of the 1M skiers are 1 trip a year, then that's £20 per punter per annum. Assuming the 'average punter takes a trip every other year between there mid 20's and mid 40's then that's the sum total of £400 over the lifetime of that skier of which a big TO (a) might expect to get some 20% = £80
You've got to ask the question "how much time is it worth MR. senior manager" dealing with a complaint to try and retain that individual customer - ok so you don't want to be tarred with a nick name of grotty chalets ltd, so you have to have a 1/2 decent level of service, but you can never please all of the people all of the time. If you assume senior manager earns 40K per annum (add 1.4x for overheads / NI) and divide by 230 working days = c £240 per day
So from a purely mathematical perspective the average mass market TO cannot afford to spend more than two hours on trying to resolve a complaint at a senior level. I'm pretty certain therefore that some TO's just ignore a number of complaint letters sent through to them, or will try to brush them off with a 'form letter and £50 off next holiday' rather than spending lots of time investigating...
OK so my numbers are somewhat lick and spit, and i've ignored the impact of families and booking groups but there is very little customer loyalty I believe in mass-market Ski TO's - i.e. would you book x becaused you've used them before, so I do think the numbers come into play. I appreciate it's totally different with boutique operators, but there much less likely to get such PO'd guests in the first place.
Cattle Class yes.
BB
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You know it makes sense.
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bertie bassett, £6 per punter... are you sure?... take plane full of TO clients...
about 300 people - the TO stands to make £1800 per full plane... nah.. far too low IMO!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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flangesax, I think most people would be truly staggered by how little margin there is on sometimes quite costly holidays. When I worked for a big TO the "if we hit it we'll have a street party and dance naked down the road" target for net margin was 3%. They were miles away from that level. Pretty much every holiday was effectively sold at a loss with the (very slim) profit being generated by commissions on in resort sales. ... and that was in a period with a far more favorable rate of exchange.
I headed up the Customer Services department and there was definitely an element of costing in failure; i.e. it is more expensive to solve regular and systematic problems than to have a bunch of monkeys (I include myself) writing simplistic responses to complaints and offering £30 pp off the next holiday. However, we did respond to everything rather than just chuck letters in the bin so maybe things have gone further downhill!
I do sympathize with anyone in TO customer services in this e-mail age (I got out before email properly took off) where it is so easy to e-mail across a swift rant after a holiday (not that I'm suggesting that this is what was done by the OP). My suggestion would be that if you send them a well thought out, focussed and carefully written letter they'll be so grateful for something that breaks the monotony of mundane ill considered shouty dross in their inbox you'll get a great response! Just a thought ...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Pretty much every holiday was effectively sold at a loss
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No wonder companies are going bust
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tour Operating, it's a funny old game ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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cbowls30, What were the reasons for your dissatisfaction?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bertie bassett, interesting what you say about the margins on sun hols compared to ski hols. As I know someone in the business who claims the other way around. They've said the only reason his company operate ski holidays in winter is to cover costs, keep planes moving, and staff in jobs. It's the sun holidays that make the most money (which doesn't sound like they're big margins either).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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On reflection, i would like to apologise to cbowls30 for being apparently unsympathetic because i considered it hardly fair to come and criticise without being approriately positive to the TOs in proportion.
I have just watched the first 10 minutes of teh BBC 10 Oclock news, and proportionality appears not to be a requisite of "quality jounalism" , so i feel i have been harsh in expecting the same from those working in a "customer facing environment "
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Hi All,
Just to let you all know i have finally just recieved a response from directski. They have even gone to the trouble of writing a letter to us to address our complaint, something you don't often get these days!
Just wanted to say fair play to them for responding and also offering us some compensation in the form of a discount on a future booking --- not sure will use it as i don't think packages are for us, but nevertheless the offer has been made.
thank you directski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Are those numbers real? That would mean that across all TO's the total profit can only be 1 million people * £20 - £20Million. If all of them went each year. That can’t be right.
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ringingmaster, it isn't right!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ringingmaster wrote: |
| Are those numbers real? That would mean that across all TO's the total profit can only be 1 million people * £20 - £20Million. If all of them went each year. That can’t be right. |
It can be right. It's cheaper to make zero profit or even a loss than it is to park aircraft, stand down staff, mothball offices etc while waiting for the sunny holidays to operate. Ski is only about 10% of the total. Other than peak booking times like HT, NY and Easter, I reckon all big TO packages are break-even or loss-making.
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| cbowls30 wrote: |
Hi All,
Just to let you all know i have finally just recieved a response from directski. They have even gone to the trouble of writing a letter to us to address our complaint, something you don't often get these days!
Just wanted to say fair play to them for responding and also offering us some compensation in the form of a discount on a future booking --- not sure will use it as i don't think packages are for us, but nevertheless the offer has been made.
thank you directski. |
So, basically, they win 10-0 and you're thanking them? Surely you want compensation NOW for what happened THIS YEAR. You shelled out hard cash so that's what you should be getting back. Then up to you who you spend it with next season.
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You know it makes sense.
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I think sometimes some people get confused over the term profit! It's what's left over, if anything, after all overheads including the wages of CEO's / MD's etc have been paid.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So, basically, they win 10-0 and you're thanking them? Surely you want compensation NOW for what happened THIS YEAR. You shelled out hard cash so that's what you should be getting back. Then up to you who you spend it with next season;
yeh i know what you're saying the OH says send it back and say the same, as he pointed out that i doubt we would book with them again anyway! so offering a discount on a future booking would be useless anyway!......... maybe i should push it further.......
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Poster: A snowHead
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cbowls30, We had an horrendous TO holiday about 20 years ago, and after much to-ing and fro-ing (including the offer of the princely sum of £20 each in vouchers off our next holiday with them - declined, obviously, as at that point we were NEVER going to travel with them) we did end up with cash compensation of around £80 each - there were 16 of us.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| cbowls30 wrote: |
| maybe i should push it further....... |
definitely. And you can bet your life that their discount on next year will only apply to the full rack rate holidays and it'll be no more than they give to a travel agent in commission. In other words, their gesture is costing them nowt! Go for the dosh and say "we can do this the easy way or the hard way and I will NEVER go away until satisfied". Just be reasoned about how much you're asking for.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, not sure I like your tone on this one.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How can you push it further when you hardly have a complaint in the first place?.
What did the T.O. really do wrong in regards to your holiday, because after reading the original thread expect for a rep with a little attitude most of your problems seem to regard getting ill and a lack of snow.
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FAQ
