 Poster: A snowHead
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Driving for first time this year. Obviously need to book snow chains. Do you NEED snow tyres too? Just want to be doubly sure.
Also is it worth buying snow chains over here rather than paying the £70 ish with the car rental?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SharkEnergy, this is a question which generates an unbelievable amount of argument on this Forum. Where are you hiring from? There are complications about Geneva, not least that some people are asked on arrival to pay extra for a set of winter tyres even though these are compulsory in Switzerland, and you can't hire cars without them. It's all different if you hire on the French side of the airport.
The short answer to your question is NO and French hire cars generally don't have them. £70 is a ridiculous price to rent chains - are you sure that's not for the full winter kit including tyres? Winter tyres are certainly much preferable for driving on snowy roads.
Chains are heavy to carry. You can buy them in French supermarkets pretty cheaply though. Depends on what time you arrive, and where you're going, how easy it would be to get them on arrival.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmmm I did think it was steep. Price is from Easycar hiring from Lyon.
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And would that be winter tyres OR chains on a snowy road, or winter tyres AND snow chains?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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looking at their web site, it looks as though chains are around £30, "winter kit" £110, for a week's hire.
I suspect, if it was me, that I'd go for the chains (which would cost around that in a supermarket, and having them provided would be one less thing to worry about). Without winter tyres you'd be more likely to have to put chains on sooner rather than later, but that's not a disaster (especially as it means there's plenty of SNOW about.  ). It's not worth the risk of finding yourself without them in a snowstorm.
If you want maximum money saving, you could check the forecast immediately before you travel - and go up without chains if the roads are clear, and forecast to stay clear. You risk the weather closing in and having to buy them more expensively in resort, however. Where are you driving to?
If it looks as though you might need them it's a good idea to practice putting them on before you're in a foot of snow in a freezing layby. Put them on as soon as you start to lose traction, when you still have some choice about where to stop.  Take a torch and some handwipes.
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You don't require winter tyres by law in France, but they do provide much more grip of snowy roads than all-season tyres. As Pam said, winter tyres will reduce the number of times you have to put chains on by a significant amount. I wouldn't pay £110 for 'winter kit' as that would nearly double the cost of weekly car hire, making do with just chains instead (bought from a supermarket if necessary). One of the advantages of hiring from the Swiss side at Geneva airport is all the cars come with winter tyres.
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yep, winter tyres offer a staggering increase in grip compared to summer rubber. I doubt whatever your rent is going to have massive wheels on, so I wouldn't really expect to pay more than about £30-40 for a pair of chains from a supermarket or even a car place (european equivalent of Halfrauds) on one of the retail parks.
Whilst you could easily pick a setup from ebay (new or used) the problem will be getting the right size for the car you get allocated. nothing worse that arriving at the road to the resort in a blizzard and realising your chains are an inch in diamter/width bigger or smaller than the tyre you're staring at 
Sometimes i am very glad I just drive......£260 for a set of snow tires and £35 for decent chains is great value when you look at rentals costs for one-off usage!
Good luck
David
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Why don't you ring the car hire people and ask what you get for your £70? We used to hire for work from Europcar, and 'winter equipped' meant snow tyres and chains.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
If you want maximum money saving, you could check the forecast immediately before you travel - and go up without chains if the roads are clear, and forecast to stay clear. You risk the weather closing in and having to buy them more expensively in resort, however.
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Happened to us in Villars several years ago. Started snowing heavily on the afternoon of our departure (we were due to leave early evening). Couldn`t lay hands on chains for love nor money. Had to delay departure for a day and then slide down the mountain. Lesson learnt. Never again.
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A newby question I know - I've seen on some websites that some chains are advertised for use on the driving wheels only i.e. you only need two sets of chains and not four. Does this satisfy the legal requirements in those countries requiring chains? What are the pros and cons of two chains over four?
My car is rear wheel drive and the thought of having grip at the back but not at the front is a bit scary!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My car is rear wheel drive and the thought of having grip at the back but not at the front is a bit scary!
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Clive, the thought of driving a rear wheel car in the snow is indeed scary...some can be sods, even with chains. But yes, chains only go on the driving wheels. Normally, anyway. I've been using chains in the Alps for 6 years and I don't remember seeing any cars with 4 on, but maybe it happens - there are loads of petrolheads who will come along with some more expert views soon.
To answer the legal question - yes, chains on the 2 driving wheels do satisfy legal requirements. But then I was originally recommended - by the Frenchman who sold them to me - that only 2 snow tyres were needed, whereas I now know better and have 4 (having lost the back end at very low speed and done a 180 skid. Fortunately not long after investing in an expensive but fun day learning how to cope with skids).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Clive, I also have a rear wheel drive car. If you want a 'belt and braces' approach that does not require the faff of putting on 4 sets of snow chains, then get a pair of Autosocks for the front tyres.
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/autosock/index.html
If road conditions are really bad and you feel the front end start to go, it is simple and quick to put them on - they grip like magic! Having one set of snow chains for the rear satisfies the legal requirements (must contain metal) for the mountains. Works for me..!
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Does anyone know what Hertz in Geneva define "winterization" as? I booked my car hire with Auto Europe and I asked whether or not this was included and they said it was, and I have it in writing. I assume that car will obviously have winter tyres but I didn't think to ask whether chains were included too. I've been lucky so far that every time I've driven to and from the slopes the roads have been relatively clear so I haven't had to try them yet.
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You know it makes sense.
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gingerpaul, can of worms, this. You will often read on snowheads that cars hired on the swiss (international) side of the Geneva airport will always have winter tyres and chains for the basic price. It's not true though. As far as the tyres are concerned, they are apparently a legal requirement in Switzerland - you can't hire a car without but some people have reported being charged for them as an "extra" on arrival at the airport. And chains - even if theoretically provided - aren't always and you need to check yourself before taking the car out.
We met some people last year who'd hired two cars from Geneva. I had seen the likelihood of big dumpage of snow the night before they left, early in the morning, and we showed them how to fix chains as they'd never done it. One of the cars didn't have any - they had to buy them in resort but then were reimbursed by the car hire firm (which I think was Europcar) on arrival at the airport. So the firm clearly recognised their error in not including the chains.
So the answer is, take nothing for granted. Check whether chains are in the car. If you need chains then you really, really, need them. Even if the car is doing OK without the police quite frequently prevent cars without chains from proceeding, to keep the roads clear.
On the French side of Geneva all bets are off....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I normally book with Holiday Autos who seem to use Alamo (most of the time), Budget (some of the time) and Hertz (occasionlly). Alamo and Hertz have always supplied chains when I've hired cars with them (even though I never pay for the 'winter pack') and Budget have never provided chains. Winter tyres are fitted to all hire cars from the Swiss side of GVA as far as I can make out, regardless of who you hire from.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Winter tyres are fitted to all hire cars from the Swiss side of GVA as far as I can make out, regardless of who you hire from.
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But whether they make you stump up an "extra" charge on arrival seems to vary capriciously. There were some cross Snowheads complaining about this last year. "If the winter tyres are an "extra", then I don't want them; take them off". "No, they're compulsory" "So how come it's an ""extra". That sort of conversation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| But whether they make you stump up an "extra" charge on arrival seems to vary capriciously. There were some cross Snowheads complaining about this last year. "If the winter tyres are an "extra", then I don't want them; take them off". "No, they're compulsory" "So how come it's an ""extra". That sort of conversation. |
Didn't know that was happening. Fortunately not happened to me (yet?). I'd complain to Holiday Autos as they state an all inclusive price, subject to any optional extras you might like to pay for when you collect the car.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, sorry for the late reply but thanks for the information.  I'll check the cars before we drive them away. If worst comes to worst then we'll have to pay and get it refunded from Auto Europe when we get back, seeing as we have it in writing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not strictly answering your question here but in case other people are looking for info on chains etc, I live in France & having looked in to this last yr it seems that it's actually a legal requirement to have chains in your car if driving in the mountains in winter, whether you need them or not. There is no such requirement for winter tyres however.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
it's actually a legal requirement to have chains in your car if driving in the mountains in winter
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In that case the French car hire companies in Geneva should include them automatically, whereas quite often they don't include them even when you ask and are prepared to pay for them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Another word if it hasn't been said already - don't be fobbed off with "the car has winter tyres so you shouldn't need chains (even though you thought you had ordered them when booking) - but if you do need them just buy them and we'll refund the cost when you get back". Sure as eggs is eggs if the time comes that you actually need chains you will not be able to buy them. Usually you will be halfway up a mountain at 9pm, or if you are lucky enough to be in a town with anything open they will not have your size (and you only find that out after queueing behind all your fellow bozos for 2 hours) 
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| Quote: |
don't be fobbed off with
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easier said than done, sometimes. My brother in law tried to order chains on line, and sending emails, and on arrival and there was no way he was going to get any. Short of chaining himself to the hire car desk and refusing to move he was stuck, really.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Shark
had the same dilemma last year. Ended up hiring chains (1 pair) for the hire car.... which turned out to be a 4x4.
For the first few days, was fine in 2x mode, then it started snowing... and on one memorable drive up the valley from Ste Foy village to the Station, did a 180 (just by the side route to the polysalle valent, for those who know the road).
Spent the next half hour fitting chains, put the car in 2x mode, and plodded on. Passed an Audi (Q7) I think, upside down in a ditch... made mental note to put chains on earlier next time.
subsequently helped some locals put chains on their car, which was half buried in the Station car park.
Chains cost something like 25euros for a 'standard' car, and can be bought from almost any petrol station or supermarket... but they will all dissappear if there's a heavy snowfall.
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Chains cost something like 25euros for a 'standard' car,
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Some chains cost that, sometimes. But you often pay more, or have the choice to pay more, and generally you get what you pay for.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hypermarkets in France are stacked high with chains at that price.
As for gettting what you pay for, I guess that for occasional use (like a once-off) these chains will be more than adequate.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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James the Last, the main difference in paying more, apart from longevity (which isn't a priority for a week's holiday) is that the more expensive ones are far easier to put on (and take off). It's easy to wish you'd paid a bit more, when your fingers are frozen and the damn things still aren't on properly.
There are plenty of posts on Snowheads from people who have had to pay more than 25 euros for their chains. Sometimes the supermarkets are shut, or far away, when you are trying to buy chains.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Sometimes the supermarkets are shut, or far away, when you are trying to buy chains. |
Not if you're trying to buy chains in a hypermarket...
Rubber gloves are a top tip for keeping the fingers a bit warmer, but without losing too much dexterity. Latex ones are better than nothing.
The problem with paying more is that I don't know whether I'm paying for the retailer's profit, or for better chains. Many retailers selling chains at 80-100 euros, particularly at the petrol station at the bottom of the hill into the resort when it's snowing, are re-selling hypermarket chains, but for 100 euros.
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You know it makes sense.
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Having on two occasions (once for me once for BIL) had to stop at every likely looking shop from Chambery to Aime seraching for the right size chains, neither car were 'standard', whatever that may be I would always buy chains in the UK well in advance. We hadn't bought chains in the UK 'becuase chains are so much cheaper in France' 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The problem with paying more is that I don't know whether I'm paying for the retailer's profit, or for better chains.
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If you go to a decent shop, with a range of chains for sale, you can make a sensible judgement on that. And of course prices will be higher in a small resort outlet than in a hypermarket. However, having spent 6 seasons in a ski resort and having helped a number of people with chains problems, I would not myself assert that local retailers make ridiculous profits by re-selling "hypermarket chains but for 100 euros". Do you have any evidence that that is happening? Some ski shops in our resort sell a few different devices, at a price which is higher than hypermarkets but doesn't change throughout the season (ie they don't suddenly hike them up when the snow falls).
If you want to be sure what you're getting, go to a specialist shop (Feu Vert, for example), have a look at the extensive range of different chains for sale, ask an assistant if in doubt, then buy what you think offers you the best value, given your needs. That's what I did, and I can now generally fit or remove my chains in a few minutes - though there is always the odd occasion when the sodding things don't go right first time. I don't wear gloves, actually, because it's quicker without. I have hand wipes in the car to clean up afterwards. Because of where we stay I probably fit chains at least 10 times a season so I get plenty of practice. I've also had cheap chains break - just a few kilometres after putting them on, brand new. I have struggled with cheap chains in the past and have some idea what I'm talking about.
Spreading the notion that you can always buy chains cheaply and easily in France is misleading.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The first chains I ever tried were cheapies from Halfords and they broke the first time I used them.
Always intriguing that some folk try to economise on things which may quite possibly be matters of life and death - descending an icy hairpin is not the time to find out that you should have bought decent chains, I should have thought 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm about to book with Hertz for a weeks hire in Italy (from venice to Arabba).
Hertz offer a "skierize" upgrade which interesting does not include chains - it's only a roof rack and winter tyres pack.
After reading all the above, am going to try and hassle them into allowing me to hire chains... better safe than sorry!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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magic_hat, you'll need the rack if you're going to carry any skis, and obviously winter tyres are a big improvement. A lot depends on the car though; some go better with ordinary tyres than others with snowtyres. They might well provide chains as well - but often it's difficult to get a definite commitment upfront.
I sympathize with your dilemma; chains are such a pain - a pain to decide how to get them, what to buy, how to put them on (and take them off, which is often no easier). And then most of the time you don't need them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, hired a peugeot 207 (economy size car) last year and managed to get a suitcase and 2 pairs of skis into the back of it as i had forgotten to pre book a roof rack!
Will probably go with the skierize package and attempt to get chains included.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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magic_hat, there's a lot to be said for smaller skis!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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magic_hat, take a blow up roof rack, we do everytime we hire a car for skiing, works fine.
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Evidence? Stories - quite possibly urban myth - abound of the police stopping cars without chains and not permitting them to go up the road into the resort. Thus far I don't think anybody can disagree. Quite often, apparently, there is a handy chappy standing there in the layby selling chains to the fortunate, for high prices, who can then continue up to their holiday. Are these stories untrue?
[quote=pam w"]Spreading the notion that you can always buy chains cheaply and easily in France is misleading. [/quote]
I don't think so. I don't think I've been into a single hypermarket during the winter in France without seeing stacks of chains, anywhere between Calais and the Alps. I never suggested "always", BTW, that's you putting words into my fingers again. I should imagine most posters on here are sufficiently clever to realise that supermarkets can run out of chains just as easily as they can run out of butter.
They cannot be that pants and prone to breaking, otherwise the manufacturers would perpetually be up in court being sued by insurance companies. Much like the similar spurious arguments that go around about buying part worn tyres (from the sorts of places that stick around) "you don't want to compromise on safety" - you're not; tyre places cannot afford to fit pants tyres.
| pam w wrote: |
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The problem with paying more is that I don't know whether I'm paying for the retailer's profit, or for better chains.
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then buy what you think offers you the best value, given your needs. |
That's really helpful, well done.
They sit there on the shelf, in boxes, looking pretty. Without trying to fit the various sets to compare them, and without suitable mechanical testing apparatus they all look the same - save for the price label. Much like tyres in the tyre fitters' - and again, there is an extraordinary load of nonsense written about tyre quality "don't buy cheap tyres, after all it's your life you're talking about" - when there is far from perfect correlation between tyre price and suitability for keeping you glued to the road.
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If you pay for a ski rack, you don;t seem to get a proper one as far as I remember last time I did this - just a small and rather flimsy looking thing that I didn't trust to stay on the roof so we didn't use it. Does anyone else have any experience of what you get for a ski/roof rack?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| James the Last wrote: |
| Evidence? Stories - quite possibly urban myth - abound of the police stopping cars without chains and not permitting them to go up the road into the resort. |
I've seen that half a dozen times in France.
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James the Last, police frequently do that, but only when it's snowing heavily. However, I have never seen anyone selling chains in a layby in any weather conditions.
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