 Poster: A snowHead
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Mrs M's new uphill skis aren't waxless, so I need to learn about grip wax (novel concept eh?). Does anybody know about these dark arts?
Edge & Wax are selling iron on grip waxes (I assume that the glide wax for either end of the ski is pretty much the same as ours. I have always used the same on both sets). Are the grip wax temperatures listed "snow" temperatures or "air" temperatures. Any idea how these relate? eg: the blue grip wax is -6 to -1, the green -20 to -6. The current temperature on bergfex.com for the valley is -1, so does this mean that I should apply blue grip wax? Any suggestions on how many applications are necessary, should I cork etc. etc. This lot seem more anal than we are 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For least effort you need glide wax on the tip and tail and grip wax near the middle.
You need the right grip wax depending on the snow temperature - else it won't grip!
Just rub it on and then spread about vigorously with a cork block. You need to generate a little bit of heat with your rubbing. You'll need new wax each morning.
When desperate, for example on ice, you can try Klister but it's an absolute pain if there is any loose snow about. It just builds up underneath your feet 'til you're walking round on stilts! Klister is something of a swear word in our house after Mrs A tried some in Sweden. It caused an awful lot of swearing and took an age to wear off again.
Good luck!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So no need to iron, a bit of elbow grease with a cork is enough?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've only ever come across rub-on grip waxes like this lot:
Iron-on grip wax seems a bit pointless to me. Where would I plug the iron in when out in the wilds?
Oh, and be warned, it can be messy so use a rag to clean the bases first and then keep it to hand for clearing up afterwards.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
it can be messy so use a rag to clean the bases first and then keep it to hand for clearing up afterwards
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we are talking cross country skiing aren't we 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You need to find the wax pocket.
Put skis on hard smooth surface.
Stand on skis with body weight even on both skis.
Get someone else to slide a sheet of paper under your feet, move it backwards and forwards, where it stops is the limit of your wax pocket.
Only put grip wax on the wax pocket, put glide wax on the rest. Take the AIR temperature and match the temperature to the wax. Take the top off the wax and peal back the tin then use the wax like a crayon. Work front to back, cover the wax pocket with a thin layer of wax (think colouring in a child's picture) rub it in with the cork (work front to back) repeat twice (three layers should last most of the day).
If the temperature is -1 first thing in the morning then use purple i.e. the next warmer wax. If its -1 at mid-day stay with blue. Klister is very tricky to apply without a torch, you need to spread it as thin as possible, klister is thick sticky stuff, it needs warming to make it runny. Klister-vox (yellow wax) is easier to use. The nearer to zero the temperature is the harder it is to get the wax right. If in doubt use a TINY bit and try it first.
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OwenM,
Thanks ... sounds like I should buy Mrs M some more waxless skis
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| musher wrote: |
OwenM,
Thanks ... sounds like I should buy Mrs M some more waxless skis |
No don't do that!
Do you cycle? Consider the difference road touring on a mountain bike with fat knobbly tyres and compare it with the same journey using a proper road touring bike with road tyres.
That's the diference between waxles and waxing. A well waxed ski is MUCH better than a waxless. Yes, there are some conditions when waxless is better....like when you are skiing through puddles. And yes, temperatures aound zero are a pain, but it is worth the effort. Most of the time it is easy enough to wax. Rememeber you are not competeing in the Olympics so you don't have to go to same lengths as racers. You could start with the simple wet /dry touring 2 wax system and build from there.
And you can iron on these crayon on waxes. Obviously you need an iron and power, unless using a gas waxer in the field, but the harder waxes (colder) are easy to apply by corking. The softer waxes spread better with a warm (not as hot as for glide wax) iron.
Many hotels in Norway have a waxing room for this. This is great, though you should be prepared to make adjustments in the field.
I am going to Finland shortly and have just prepared my skis with Polar wax (base binder x2, polar x3 layers, warm ironed). If I hit a warm spell then the softer wax will go on top when I get there.
Learn to love klisters! I have had some really good skiing on klisters, both red and blue. A gas iron helps of course, as does a supply of jiffy cloth cut into small squares, and a ploy bag for the used rags.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I got Mrs M the assorted pack (similar to altis' post above) from scotty dog today. Were off again the week after next..watch this space 
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Temperatures around 0c are worse for kick waxing (and easiest for glide waxing). But nowadays with fluoro waxes things are really simple... much more then 20+ years ago, when you really had problems waxing good 
Ok I still had some stash from my xc racing and being WC serviceman days stacked, so I have huge box of waxes, which in all sort of combinations works best for particular snow. But for someone, not dealing with this professionally, I would suggest to keep it simple. Spend some more and get fluoro waxes, since it really makes difference between fun on skis, and swearing like hell, never wanting to go skiing again. For glide waxes, fluoros are just too expensive to bother with this, but for kick wax, it's worth. Fluoro prevents ice to build on skis when using klister, or even warmer hard wax on colder snow, so it's much easier waxing this days, when you have different sorts of snow around the course.
So basically, I would suggest getting 2 fluor klisters... Swix KR50 Flexi klister silver +3C/-4C, and Swix KR60 Vario klister red 0C/+5C. These two are both sort of "universal" klisters, which work in wide(r) temperature range. Both are fluoro klisters, so if track is in general wet or icy, while part of track has dry cold snow, they will still work without making ice on bottom when crossing that dry cold snow.
For hard waxes, my suggestion are 3 or 4 kick waxes... Swix VR40 -2c/-8c (in past called as famous blue extra), which is good for anything from -1 or -2c down (as long as you have dry non-transformed snow). It's fast enough, that it's used even on World cup as coldest wax, even when temperatures go down to -20 or less. Next to this one, VR45 0/-4c and VR50 -2c/+1c are other two waxes I would suggest you to get, and maybe, but really maybe, also VR60 (0/+2c).
Hard waxes are used for fresh and fine grained snow... sometimes even partly transformed snow as long as it's fine grained. Klisters on the other side are used for ice, transformed and coarse snow, as well as wet snow (which after few passes with skis builds ice on track). But that's just really pure and very simplified basics, since kick waxing is part of science, and part of pure magic, especially when it comes to World cup racing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| altis wrote: |
| Iron-on grip wax seems a bit pointless to me. |
Sometimes you actually iron (colder) hard wax, or even cold klisters. But this suits as base wax, over which you apply a bit warmer wax. This way wax stays in longer. But if you go skiing for 20 or 30km, I wouldn't bother with this. Going for longer, I would definitely do this, since you avoid adding wax on field.
| OwenM wrote: |
You need to find the wax pocket.
Put skis on hard smooth surface.
Stand on skis with body weight even on both skis.
Get someone else to slide a sheet of paper under your feet, move it backwards and forwards, where it stops is the limit of your wax pocket. |
That's something you HAVE TO do, before you even go out with skis. But to take this even a bit further... there are 2 different "wax pockets" on each ski. One is for hard waxes, the other one is for klister waxes.
First one (for hard waxes) is determined as OwenM described. Second one (for klister) is set similar way, just that in this case, you are standing with all your weight only one one ski. And area where paper is sliding under ski is this second wax pocket.
For recreational skiing this might not be extremely important, but for racing it matters. Klister is put on skis in thicker layer then hard wax, so you need shorter pocket. And with shorter pocket, skis are faster.
One more thing... quite lot of people think, they can get away with single pair for classic and for skating. Reality is, they can't. Classic skis have completely different construction then skating skis. Skating skis have single arc which is starting on top of ski, and ends at tail of ski. Classic skis are done with flat part on top of ski, then 30-40cm arc under foot, and then flat part till tail of ski. If you try skating skis, wax pocket would basically reach from beginning till end of ski, which means, they would hardly move, or if you want them to glide, you wouldn't have any grip.
Also skiing skating with classic skis is not really comfortable, since they bend differently and they feel really awkward. So if you want to ski both, skating and classic, get 2 pairs of skis
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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primoz, priceless information from an expert; thanks very much!
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