 Poster: A snowHead
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Last weekend, St Anton Scotsman report:
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| A BRITISH man on an Alpine holiday died after a late-night ski run from a mountain bar when he crashed into a log cabin. |
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| Herbert Habicher, a spokesman for the Red Cross, added: "Many accidents happen on this slope at night. Sometimes the skiers are very drunk after drinking at the bar at the top of the slope." |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Herbert Habicher, a spokesman for the Red Cross, added: "Many accidents happen on this slope at night. Sometimes the skiers are very drunk after drinking at the bar at the top of the slope."
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So no Duty of Care there then!
An entirely preventable accident and not to difficult to see where responsibility lies for this persons death. Condolences to his family and friends.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Its not the first time & wont be the last 
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Hmm, doesn't say how late it was or even if he was drunk. In a situation like that, duty of care should rest with the individual, in my opinion.
Anyone stupid enough to get pissed and then ski has broken one of the basic rules. So in a situation like that my condolences would go out, along with a nomination for the Darwin Award.
I wonder how charitable people would be if a drunken skier crashed into and killed a child?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boredsurfin
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An entirely preventable accident and not to difficult to see where responsibility lies for this persons death. Condolences to his family and friends. |
Er, nobody made this poor chap stay up a mountain drinking and then ski down it whilst pissed.
Yes, the resort have a measure of responsibility, but hardly sole responsibility.
Anyway, we can now all play finger pointing and blame apportioning before tedious things like all the facts become known.
With apologies and condolances to his wife and children.
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If so many accidents occur then why don't they do something about it ? I know in Switzerland if more than one person is killed or seriously injured on a particular run or lift in a certain period of time then they hold an enquiry to see if there is anything they can do
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Why do they sell alcohol on ski slopes, in motorway service stations, on aeroplanes ???? One word - Profit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The police spokesman states in that report:
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| We believe the deceased had been drinking before deciding to ski down to the valley |
The operative words being "We believe ..."
When we know the facts - i.e. when an autopsy has taken place - we can all judge whether alcohol played any part in this accident.
Maybe he was drinking lemonade.
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Why do they sell alcohol on ski slopes
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They sell it because we want it, and love it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Heard that a British man died skiing dowm from the Mooserwirt. You can (and should really) walk/stumble dowm from the Mooserwirt and the Krazy Kangeroo. Many other mountain huts that stay open for Apres ski in Austria offer other forms of transport (pisten bully or snowmobile). If you are too far gone or somebody you are with is too far gone then ask if there is another way down.
If you know you are going for a session in a mountain hut, consider taking a pair of boots to change into and a torch along with a ski lock. If all else fails at least you can leave your skis behind and walk back down at night.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If as the Red Cross spokesman says night time accidents on this slope are a frequent occurrence surely the resort has an obligation to make it harder to get onto the slope. Netting & Signs. You cannot stop every drunken idiot (and I'm not referring to this particular death) climbing over/under fencing but it might make some think twice. A second strip of netting near the top of the run would catch those who were really well-oiled.
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These particular bars can all be accesssed by road. You dont have to be on skis,have a lift ticket. You cannot blame the resort or lift company.
This is Austria , bars have been on the slopes for years & way before skiing. Mooserwirt the "Wirt" means local Pub in "Moos" district of St Anton.
As I said before its not the first time & wont be the last .
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You know it makes sense.
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kuwait_ian,
Actually at Easter time if the snow is thin they ship in snow so skiers can get to the bar !
Its an unfortunate incident but wont effect the legendry Österreich Gemütlichkeit 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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boredsurfin, by whom was this unfortunate bloke owed a duty of care? Who had undertaken to keep him safe from harm while skiing down a mountain at night after a few hours in the pub? I'm guessing no-one.
One can legitimately question the wisdom of allowing bars on the piste to open after dark, but to suggest that someone has a duty of care to an individual in these circumstances seems to me to be going too far.
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Poster: A snowHead
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richmond, In the UK, although not tested at court in circumstances we are discussing here, a Licensee has a duty of care to his staff and customers. Further more the Licensing Act states clearly under
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The Duty to Refuse Service, a licensee or any person working in the premises must refuse service of intoxicating drinks to anyone who appears to be drunk. It is illegal to sell intoxicating to a person who is drunk.
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Whilst Duty of Care is derived European Legislation. The licensing act is solely UK legislation. I do not know, but would hope, that similar law exists in Austria.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 8-03-05 11:45; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My first ever skiing holiday (in Flaine, 1987) we did an "organised" "torchlight" descent from a mountain restaurant. I use both sets of inverted commas advisedly as the descent was not organised, and by the time we had assisted a struggling abandoned skier from another party, nor were the flares which were supposed to be guiding our passage still alight. One of the most frightening experiences and as a result never repeated (despite TO reps trying to flog similar events on several occasions since). 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Whilst Duty of Care is derived European Legislation. The licensing act is solely UK legislation. I do not know, but would hope, that similar law exists in Austria. |
They just use common sense or accept the consequences of their drunken actions.
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I did a late night run once to ski down from top of Saalbach after missing the last lift in Chritmas and the darkness set in at no time at all. It was pitch black everywhere. We were overtaken by a few ski lifts attendents every now and then so we weren't the last and so were able to pick the correct route. Mrs. Saikee and I didn't have a single drop of alcohol and were tackling the slope stretch by stretch. We could do with a stiff drink at the bottom of the slope but not at the top.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Did a tobbogan run organised by the TO in Kitzbuhel about 11 yrs ago. The run was very very icy and quick, and we were very very drunk due to having an hour and a half in the bar at the top of the run. I was with Mrs Frosty and another couple. Girls went down together and boys went down together. On the first bend us boys crashed that badly that it took us 10 mins to get the sled out of a tree, and by the time we reached the bottom we had crashed twice more. My the time we staggered into the finishing hut I destroyed a bew paiir of walking boots and had a 2 ft rib down the back of my sallies. My mate had briuised his thigh so badly that he did not ski on the final 2 days.
The girls who were not drunk got down without a problem. We decanted to a bar for more boose. The next day i caught sunstroke on the mountain and was very ill for 18 hrs. All drink related I am sure. The point of this tale is that the drunk pair nearly died, and the sober pair were fine.
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boredsurfin, so far as I know, there has not been a case in the UK in which a licensee has been held to be responsible for the actions of a drunken customer (not that I have any special knowledge). It doesn't seem to me that the licensing laws impose a duty of care (in the conventional English sense of the term) on licensees. A duty of care normally arises when someone undertakes to perform a service for someone else; they must perform it conscientiously and with appropriate skill and so on.
What other countries' laws say about this sort of thing I don't know. I remember a case in France a year or two ago where a couple who hosted a dinner party were charged under criminal law (so not a UK 'duty of care' type of thing) when a drunken guest insisted (despite his hosts' advice) on driving home and something ghastly happened. They were found innocent, although I can't remember why. My recollection is that they were charged under a criminal law which places a general obligation on people to stop other people doing illegal things.
It seems to me to be pretty harsh and more or less unworkable to place a general obligation on those serving alcohol to ensure that their guests or customers come to no harm. If you have boozers on the slopes, you must accept that this sort of unfortunate event will happen every so often, just as you must accept that there will be drunken drivers, people who get pissed and start fights and all the other undesirable consequences of alcohol use. Accidents like this one seems to be pretty rare, and I suspect that the generality of skiers regard them as a price worth paying for slopeside pubs. I suspect that if skiing were to be invented tomorrow, alcohol would not be allowed anywhere near the slopes.
Personally, I wouldn't miss alcohol on the slopes, although I do have the occasional glass of wine with lunch while skiing.
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| had a 2 ft rib down the back of my sallies |
Frosty the Snowman, we don't want to know about bones in your trousers. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Masque, I have an addiction, not to drink, but to this bloody forum. I do most of my posting at work so try and rattle each post off at maximum speed. Touch typing will always be beyond me. Anyhow shall have to dash as I am late for my 11.30 snifter....hic 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I remember years ago in Utah aside from the membership of bars, all staff have to wear name badges & if your caught intoxicated on the street you have to know the name of the person that served you. Not only do you get arrested ofr being intoxicated the barman gets busted as well for selling. Not sure if its still the case over there but they are strange in Utah
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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stanton, pah, they really are lightweights over there. When they catch me drunk I can't remember which Hotel I'm staying in, never mind which kind sole assisted me in getting to that state.
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marc gledhill, Always keep your name and address written on a card in your pocket. Thought being an ex rugby lad you would have adopted this tactic. It is very useful for your mates to give to taxi driver/police/hospital etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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Frosty the Snowman, better still keep it written on a luggage tag tied around your neck along with your front door key.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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................ and the appropriate stampage on your forehead
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've done that run myself down from the Moosewirt and Krazy Kanguruh, in the dark, after a few drinks....it was a bit scary!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The whole point about the apres ski areas at the bottom of the runs in St. Anton (or anywhere for that matter) is to stop and have a drink on the last run before getting down to the village, meet the rest of your party, watch the sunset maybe or just have a breather. If you get pissed up the hill even the most narrow minded person must realise it's dangerous and as we all know sometimes fatal. We all know the risks but there will be quite a few of us that have done it and talk about the laugh we had. It doesn't make it right, but the bar owners don't actively discourage people from hanging one on and then trying to get down.
I think the responsibility rests on the individual to say time to go.
Brooksie
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm REALLY not surprised that someone has killed themselves coming down from the Moosewirt or the KK. I've skied down from there in the pitch dark slightly drunk myself. However, we had only stopped there for a couple of drinks after a day's skiing. We were considered to be complete wimps by others though as the 'proper' way to do it is to stop off there about 4pm and stay there drinking until late into the evening. I dread to think the state some people get into by that point. Very, very scary.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is not new !
Two years ago someone skied of the side of the Mooserwirt down into the revine and ended up in a box . The day after the Moose was going to close as a mark of respect for the day but hell why should they ( they didnt ). One thing they did do was put up a stronger barrier 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Brooksie, sazza42, I quite agree. In my dumb youth I've done that run as late as 8pm having been in the Mooserwirt and the KK for more than a few hours and after more than a few drinks. I can remember watching someone leave the KK in such a state that he struggled to click into his bindings. It seemed like a lark at the time. Reading this thread makes me shudder at the memory.
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johnnyrotten,
8pm ? The KK has really has calmed down over the years. I remember in the early 80's crawling out of there at 00:00- 01:00 in the morning with hordes of wasted Scandinavians & skiing straight to the Raliway Station Bar for the next round
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People have to take responsibility for their own actions. If someone is dumb enough to get tanked and then ski, then whatever happens to them is their own fault. As Tim Brown said, what would people say if he had inadvertantly killed someone else.
Since we don't know the details, maybe this isn't applicable in this particular case. No matter what, this is a tragedy for the family left behind, but I don't think the ski resort is responsible.
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1.00am ? When I was young we lived in a paper bag in the middle of the piste and got up before we went to bed!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There are loads of people who complain that there aren't any mountain bars open at night here. If you get drunk and then try to ski (either night or day), you deserve everything you get. I'm sorry for his family though, but I can't see that it was anyone's fault but his own.
One person was killed and one seriously injured (broken femur) here a couple of weeks back when, after a skinful they decided to toboggon down one of the black runs. A tree appeared and said hello. Sorry - no sympathy.
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| easiski wrote: |
| A tree appeared and said hello. |
That would be LSD then.
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