 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey guys it would be great to get your feedback on what the economy is like in the UK - are people still planning ski trips for next winter? Has many people lost their jobs. Is the economy making you think of taking trips closer to home - or are the cheap airfares to North America - making you more interested in this option.
Kieren
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kierengaul,
My take....
I think people are concerned that the economy is in pieces and that they do not take the job security completely for granted.
It will all come down to percieved value for money, IMV but I don't think it wil stop many people I know.
I've have said this before here but last year, because of our exchange rate, we changed to self-cooking in the chalet and used the mountain restraurants very frugally, preferring to take up our own lunch.
It contributed to some very good holiday expenses.
The chalet was reasonable as it slept 9 and we used it for 4....so about £250 ea
Car travel was about £60 per head, maybe a bit more as we drove around a lot,
Lift pass was about £160 for the week
plus food..
Quite happy with that...but the biggest factor for keeping the sense of costs down was food on the hill...
so now we are a convert for making up our own sandwiches/lunch
So, on the bais of those costs, then no, isn't an option for us.
Other trips we have looked at which incorporate, chlaet accom and guiding/intruction come in around £900 per week for 5 or 6 days skiing but then you still have to pay for
uplift and travel to the resort.
As we aren't completely clueless, we would still tend to go for the self-prepped holiday and add a day or two guided which would add say £150 per head to the outlay...
That will be our plan again this year...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The economy here is still pretty rubbish. There is some talk of 'green shoots' but difficult to see any yet and I think most people are fearing for their jobs, I know I am.
However, my mantra is, whilst I'm still employed, I shall continue a 'normal' pattern of spending. Therefore I already have a ski holiday booked for next season! Not America/Canada though, that's way out of my league.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's all doom and gloom, Michael Jackson died, there's a heatwave, there's going to be water shortages, Farah Fawcett died, electricity shortages, global warming is getting worse, Gas prices increasing, Petrol prices increasing, the oil price is going higher, the pound is going lower, the country is massively in debt, our taxes will go through the roof, the banks won't lend any money, property prices have crashed, rampant negative equity is on it's way, the government is printing money, hyper inflation is around the corner, the Americans caused it all, no body is doing anything about carbon emmissions, Robert Peston is still employed but unemployment is heading for record highs ....but we can still go skiing............ in Scotland 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing,
Or, to put it another way (apart from the specifics of which celebrity has recently died), "everything is normal".
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Things seem to be picking up - but future extra taxes/costs - for such stuff as paying off government debt, broadband expansion, 'green' energy power supply - may hit that. So far I am still planning to go skiing. I agree with JT that a big factor in costs last season was the food bill, because of the exchange rate.
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In terms of the ski market suffering, I blame the French. Their mentality goes like this... last year I had 100 customers paying 100 Euros. This winter I only have 80 customers so they'll have to pay 125 Euros plus a bit for inflation and the inconvenience of having to get the calculator out... so let's call it 140 Euros. And then there's the exchange rate.
I know so many people (mainly families) who either won't be going next season or will cut down on how many times they go. They feel ripped off and they're not about to start packing sarnies or cooking & washing up in their apartment. They assume it is the same in other countries. France has 50% of the market but have left a taste this season that will impact on the whole market. Greed overtook common business sense in 08/09.
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Kieren, you'll get many different opinions about the state of the economy in the UK but what I think is fair comment is although people are hurting, and by people I mean your target demo, many people I've spoken have been surprised by how moderate the correction (in relation to what it was predicted to be and certainly how it has been historically) has been, at least until now. This is not to belittle those who have suffered quite badly, but people are talking more about making economies than not going at all.
Indeed I was talking to a good mate last night, who works as an analyst for an international reporting agency, who tends to share my view that further correction/s are inevitable (next Mar/Apr will be a key time), and those could be the really painful ones, though many would (will) disagree. That is when the market for recreation holidays I believe will take its biggest kicking.
As regards Red, maybe you need to look at how you are enticing people to make the 4000 odd mile trip out there from the UK. No disrespect, but having some cat-skiing-carbon-offset-gimmick is not going to be the clincher.
There will always be a limited pool of people here willing to come to Ca (mainly flight related obviously) so you need to work out how to grab 'em. I have never been to Red, but would certainly go, if it was cost effective. But it's not (for me) at the moment. Talking from a personal viewpoint I feel I'm lucky in that I normally manage a month in Ca (two, two week trips), but this is only achieved with careful budgeting, not a money-no-object deal.
So that limits me to what the TO's offer. And I'm not alone. Most of the people I meet going out to Ca go this way (and have never heard of  's ) so if you want to pick up business you need to investigate this. I would guess your average UK visitor to Red does it diy, which can work out a lot more than the TO route (cue debate). If people begin to budget, rather than cancel, diy to Ca will be the first to be hit.
I know the term "package" is a dirty word on here, but if you want to purely increase numbers, you need to go the TO route. Good luck with that at the moment though as the TO's to be cutting back at most (all?) other Ca destinations next season.
These are purely personal opinions, but as I would guess I am who you might be targeting, reasonably valid. But if I'm not maybe you can convert the Cats to run on Hydrogen.
John.
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I'm also in your target market I'd guess but I DIY to Canada and then prefer to ply it by ear usually which would mean if I booked with you it would be at 1 or 2 days notice. Wider economic factors such as low/zero/negative payrises, job insecurity, poor £ exchange rates (certainly v Can$ historically) mean that I would guess a catskiing trip is low on peoples' priority lists.
Even the price of day tcikets some place made my eyes water - step forward RCR for your comedy pricing on Fernie day tickets: "Yes all the lifts are unlikely to be open, no we can't guarantee the upper mountain or any of the bowls will open, no we can't tell you accurate information. Is there a discount on the ticket price then? No that'll be $84 Sir"
Put simply I'd suspect that many of those crossing the pond will be looking for "deals" rather than resorts assuming all Europeans have bottomless wallets (& heading warnings of a possible El Nino year which may not bode well for low elevation reorts near the 49 parallel.)
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The weak pound is probably the biggest problem - both US and Europe are both hellishly expensive for Brits.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My personal opinion (and this is tainted by broad generalisations and stereotypes) is that while yes, the econonmy is in tatters, this won't affect the ski business too much.
The type of people who are accustomed to going skiing every year are not going to be in the financial bracket where they will have to forego their much loved annual ski holiday to save money. They will be in a bracket above.
They will probably trade-down on a lot of issues - ie look for a cheaper resort, or a better deal, a TK Maxx ski jacket instead of a Two Seasons one, use last year's sunnies instead of buying new ones, go out every second night they are there instead of every night, go for self-catering instead of restaurant meals and take a packed lunch on the slopes, but ski enthusiasts are on the whole a committed bunch so while purse strings may be tightened, the amount of ski holidays taken won't fall too much.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think that the worst is over. People are taking more summer holidays at home but the Euro seems to be weakening. By the next winter i think people will be still skiing in big numbers. I know i will be.
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skree, you will be skiing in big numbers? Fascinating. And welcome to snowheads.
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You know it makes sense.
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It may seem as though it is picking up but we will still be paying for it for the next 30 years.... But it certainly wont stop me skiing.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for everyones feedback on this. It may be possible to run the cat on Hydrogen in the future. We just upgraded to newer cats that use about 30% less fuel. So I suspect that it would take a few years before hydrogen becomes a realistic alternative for us.
KG
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Poster: A snowHead
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No plans to ski for our family.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, what about you though? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stanton, Wait another 2 months for the Eurozone report for the same time period, it won't be pretty.
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Granted, but that shrinkage is from a high water mark, unlike earlier recessions that started from a much lower point, so it didn't take much correction to cause massive problems.
So unless there are further corrections, it's not going to be as bad (in absolute terms) as was possibly predicted. So, as many seem to agree, it's a case of economies rather than cancellations for most people.
At the moment we're sitting on the lower slope of an alpe, taking in the view, where we might just stay. The problem will be if we get dragged near, or over, the edge, and what part of the valley we end up in.
John.
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Bode Swiller, a hearty dollop of truth in your take on things ... however, having spoken to quite a few suppliers over recent weeks there is a bit of reality check going on. The right people are beginning to realise that to keep people going to France in the long term they can't simply milk us for as much dosh as possible. A (slight) correction in the exchange rate will also help a bit, as will the TVA reduction on restaurant bills.
Re the economy as a whole, I'm not convinced that we're in the recovery period yet BUT there are still plenty of people who have reasonable disposable incomes and want to spend it on skiing (thankfully!). Backing up Boredsurfing some shocking data is going to come out of the Eurozone as the year goes on. Look out for the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain) in particular but it'll drag the whole lot downwards.
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Of course we do have to address our debt and that is why an election is required asap.. but that is another story.
And as our treasury aren't interested in pay back at this time, and prefers to buy Brown some time, then we do have some bad news in store.
NI will be a hard blow, I think and other taxes will just have to rise... no two ways about it, IMV. Atm, all we have done is put it all off for a rainey day, AFAICS.
So, even though the economy might recover, our debt overhead will not until we begin to tackle it...so in that sense, the worse maybe yet to come....
I still expect to go as often as possible, I just don't want to commit this far out, so I'll start planning around Sept/Oct...
I pretty much have in mind how the season will go tho...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The recession is not over & even if it is, the recovery will take years 5-10yrs without a war in between.
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stanton, ... I thought we'd been gloomy enough without throwing a war into the mix! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
they're not about to start packing sarnies or cooking & washing up in their apartment
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Oh god no, what a dreadful thought. Perish the thought that we throw a couple of steaks in the pan, break open another bottle of good quality wine at around £6 a bottle and chuck the dishes in the machine. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Its going to continue for a while, my advice?
Save a few pennies this summer. Take the next ski season off, find some cheap accomodation in the alps, and go have a good time.
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nixmap, so you didn't like any of the applicants you've got so far? 
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, I will be skiing in big numbers as long as the Euro allows. Maybe i am being optimistic, but as long as people do not need to move. Then the cheap mortgage rates will mean they have some disposable income to spend on skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| nixmap, so you didn't like any of the applicants you've got so far? |
They are all good, I just couldn't help myself. It was just too easy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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this is from the latest Crystal Ski Industry Report 2009...
The ski market fell by 13.3% across all sectors last season despite good early sales and excellent snow conditions. The fall follows seven successive years of growth and reduces the number of skiers travelling abroad from more than 1.22m in 2007/8 to just over 1m in 2008/9.
The decline in numbers is due to some skiers giving the season a miss and others taking just one trip where they might previously take two or more. However, the encouraging sign was the schools market which remained stable with more than 140,000 young skiers taking to the slopes and memories of last season’s great snow will have whet the appetite of many skiers to return.
The independent travel sector was down by 15% to 327,000 skiers with some low cost carriers reducing their flight capacity to ski destinations. The tour operator sector also saw their number decreasing by 15% to 597,000 skiers, partly due to fewer multiple trips, fewer new skiers and a shorter ski season.
The top six operators’ market share remained stable at 73%. Crystal strengthened its market leadership by 0.1% to 24.3% and Inghams increased its share by 1.3% to 18.4%, both still comfortably ahead of the pack. Thomson’s share fell by 1.1% and Neilson, who enjoyed a good season, added 0.7%. First Choice lost 1.3%, but is still ahead of Airtours who gained 0.4%.
France continues to be the most popular country despite seeing a slight decline of 0.5%, taking 37.0% share of holidaymakers last season. Switzerland, which benefits from higher resorts than its neighbour France, shows a steady share of 6%.
Austria and Italy increased market share by 1.8% and 1.1% respectively. Bulgaria also saw a small increase to 3.2% and the small countries sector grew by 0.5% reflecting the rise in popularity of Slovenia.
Despite good snowfalls, North America’s share dropped by 1.4% due to Zoom’s demise, other airlines reducing seat capacity and many skiers opting for better value European resorts. The Andorran ski resorts saw a further decline in visitors from a 2% fall last season to 5% which is attributed to its continuing attempt to reposition itself from a budget to quality destination. It also suffered from end of season capacity reductions from most operators.
The 2009/10 season undoubtedly poses serious challenges for an industry that is impacted by the effects of the recession, exchange rate pressures, high fuel costs and high fixed costs for ski holiday companies.
The Crystal Ski Industry Report finds strong evidence of chalet companies significantly reducing the numbers of properties for next winter leading to fewer holidays on offer.
It predicts that next season skiers will become increasingly price-sensitive which will contribute to a reversal of recent trends which saw a growth in independent travel. Large-scale operators could re-gain some of the ground lost to DIY travellers if they are able to use their buying-power to get lower prices and pass these onto consumers as attractive packages.
For instance, Crystal has worked closely with overseas suppliers to offer outstanding value ski packages to the British skiers and have developed ‘Crystal Ski Plus’. Simple, no hassle, no hustle, just ski: with prices from £479 per person INCLUDING local lift pass, ski & boot hire or ski carriage, self-catering or full board, in-resort service. Valid for departures during non-peak times to the top resorts of Les Arcs and La Plagne in the Paradiski, France.
There is also an expectation that many large operators will cut capacity and consumers will see fewer ‘last minute bargains’ than in previous years. Some low cost airlines are expected to reduce their flights to ski relevant destinations, which could have an impact on the independent sector. There remains speculation around further industry consolidation in the year ahead.
Crystal’s MD Mathew Prior said: “Winter 08/09 was a difficult year for the ski industry and 09/10 poses challenges for us all. Our research shows that the key is to inspire customers, remind them how fantastic a ski holiday is and create good value and compelling holidays. We know that in their hearts no skier wants to miss out on a season provided they can justify the expense. Creating transparently good value deals I see as the key to ensuring that as many as possible return to the slopes this coming season.”
The ski and snowboard overview amalgamates information from tour operators’ own statistics, CAA published statistics, tourist office figures and travel agency feedback.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 2-07-09 14:31; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As per comments this time last year you have to remember what the title of the report is when reading it.... They have also confirmed that they are cutting around 40% of their chalet programme - ouch! http://tinyurl.com/nbthge
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 2-07-09 17:06; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Although probably a true report I would much rather see an independent survey & not one produced by a Ski Tour Operator.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stanton, None of us are going to pay to buy an independent report at the mo so there probably won't be one! That said I completed the Ski Club survey for their annual report a few weeks ago so that should be along before too long.
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I think it its going to be too expensive to ski in europe next year. Most of the cheap deals will be gone, as companies reduce capacity.
I think you should all stay home , even if it means the slopes will be empty.....
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I think it its going to be too expensive to ski in europe next year. Most of the cheap deals will be gone, as companies reduce capacity.
I think you should all stay home , even if it means the slopes will be empty.....
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| It's all doom and gloom, Michael Jackson died, there's a heatwave, there's going to be water shortages, Farah Fawcett died, electricity shortages, global warming is getting worse, Gas prices increasing, Petrol prices increasing, the oil price is going higher, the pound is going lower, the country is massively in debt, our taxes will go through the roof, the banks won't lend any money, property prices have crashed, rampant negative equity is on it's way, the government is printing money, hyper inflation is around the corner, the Americans caused it all, no body is doing anything about carbon emmissions, Robert Peston is still employed but unemployment is heading for record highs ....but we can still go skiing............ in Scotland |
you forgot to mention the Lions getting beaten ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stanton wrote: |
| The recession is not over & even if it is, the recovery will take years 5-10yrs without a war in between. |
a dog would know more about its father you amadan, nobody cares what you think, you kiddie-fiddlin, donkey-worryin bigot 
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barry,
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FAQ
