 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
So I've been trawling the web for aaages looking for that 'quiver-of-one' freeride ski. Its the ski that's great off piste - in powder fields, trees, small drops etc but also able to handle groomers and the occasional jumps. 50/50 pow/piste stable at speed and able to turn quickly when necessary - a fun playful ski that can be pushed. Everywhere.
The planks I've narrowed it down to are:
Line Sir Francis Bacons (182)
Volkl Mantras (191/183)
Black Crow Navis (186)
Black Crow Corvus (186/196)
I'm 23, 6'4/195cm, weigh 14 stone (almost 90 kgs), am an intermediate/expert skiier but always pushing myself. Riding in Europe 4 weeks a year.
So... can anyone give me some feedback on these skis? Also, given my height and weight - would the longer Mantras/Black Crow Corvus' be better than the shorter versions?
Thanks! I'd demo them myself but I'm in the wrong country!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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crazedbiker, Welcome to Snowheads. As a 90kg intermediate/expert, you should probably be looking at the longer lengths. I've not skied the SFBs, but the others are all great skis. If I was you, I'd really try to find an opportunity to try them first.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SFB's too soft. For a one ski quiver out of that list, I'd probably go for the Mantra. Also consider the Gotama, Line Prophet 100, Moment Belafonte, Dynastar Sixth Sense Slicer.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 25-11-10 23:41; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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crazedbiker, I did a review on two of those.... let me dig it out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1115221&highlight=navis+enforcer#1115221
After arriving in Chamonix Saturday evening and visiting the zoo first thing Sunday morning for new boots a certain SZK sorted out some test skis for me to try over the next three days. Read on for my impressions of both the skis and the service.
Black Crow Navis – 175.7cm, 20m radius, sidecut 133-103-124
This ski simply blew me away. For a fairly fat ski it handled moguls well and didn’t seem to require any extra effort to get it over onto the edge. Actually, it could turn on a sixpence and rapid changes of direction off piste were a doddle. At speed on the groomed piste it held it’s line well, yet it cut though frozen crud and boiler plate as if it wasn’t there. The ski does require commitment and you need to keep the aggression levels up a touch to get the best from it. The only downside to me was it’s weight (just over 5kg a pair). This meant that by the end of the day when I was feeling tired I had to concentrate on my lines quite a bit… this ski likes some forceful input. A more accomplished skier than myself who likes gnarly couloirs would find this ski perfect.
Nordica Enforcer - 177cm, 19m radius, sidecut 135-98-125
What can I say? To sum it up… delightful!!! I hadn’t put this one down on my list to try but this was the one ski which seemed to cope with every condition and then leave you with a wide ear to ear grin at the bottom of a run. I managed to get in a whole series of moguls in a nice straight line, then carve at speed down hard groomers, then take on bumpy tight steeps through trees and with every turn the ski seemed to be lending a helping hand. The twin tip tail brought the ski around a turn with minimal effort and absorbed jump landings perfectly. It was a little more forgiving than the Navis which meant that when you were tired you could relax a touch and it wouldn’t catch you out. I actually managed to make several consecutive turns skiing backwards on this model… it also flicks round with minimal effort when you want to change back.
Volkl Mantra - 177cm, 20.3m radius, sidecut 133-96-116
I can’t really say anything bad about this ski but I just didn’t enjoy skiing it at all. OK… fast carved turns were fantastic but the stiffer flex didn’t work for me in tight spaces, and on the moguls and steeps the semi straight tail seemed to catch and hold the turn for too long thus preventing me from making sudden direction changes. Not having a proper twin tipped configuration also caused a slight problem in a steep section of bumps and trees. I had attempted to reverse a bit to make room for a turn after taking a look at a possible line, and one tail jammed into a mound of soft snow and neatly tipped me over. Probably it needed a heavier or more aggressive skier than myself to get the most out of it... for me though it just didn’t work.
So what did I choose? The Enforcer twin. It just hits every nail I have right on the head. Some may prefer a longer radius for stability in powder, but in my opinion that would limit the ski for use in bumps and for messing about in the park. How a 98mm waisted ski can be so quick and playful on the groomed piste is simply beyond me. A true one quiver ski.
A very close second (such a difficult choice it was too) was the Navis. Maybe in a few years when I can get the most out of them I may get a pair. I’d be happy to ski on these any day though.
Two other skis I have enjoyed on previous demo's were the Head Mojo 90 and the Liberty Hazmat in 94mm waist.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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crazedbiker, Welcome to the forum by the way 
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There are a few more reviews by various people on the Navis and Mantra on that old thread of mine. Navis seems to win out every time. I loved it.
You into engine with two wheels or pedal power?
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a few others to look at Atomic access 191 / Storm devastator / line blends / liberty hazmat or helix
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gorilla, Cheers for the info.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Scarpa,
We appear to have a similar taste in skis (the Mantra didn't do much for me but I liked the Mojo 90). Just out of interest how would you rate the Libertys and Mojo's against the others? i.e. (1st to 5th place)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scarpa, interesting, the reasons you don't like the Mantra (stiff, can hold on to the tail) are the reasons I like mine! Horses for course I guess.
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Sideshow_Bob, I am fairly light and quite a delicate skier... they just didn't suit my style.
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You know it makes sense.
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| DB wrote: |
Scarpa,
We appear to have a similar taste in skis (the Mantra didn't do much for me but I liked the Mojo 90). Just out of interest how would you rate the Libertys and Mojo's against the others? i.e. (1st to 5th place) |
Enforcer - 1
Black Crow - 2
Hazmat - 3
Mojo 90 - 4
Mantra - 5
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 26-11-10 23:26; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was a better skier when demoing the three I reviewed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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crazedbiker, I don't know about the new ones, but last years SFB's were REALLy soft. Seem like quite a specific pow jib ski. The Gotamas I've hand-flexed seemd like a decent mid/stiff flex - the tail definitely didn't *feel* softer than the SFB's, maybe you'd notice skiing them though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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crazedbiker, I demoed 06/07 models. Welcome to the place btw. If you are a heavier skier than the Mantras may work well. I am 74kg and 5'10".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yeah as it turns out the SFB's are a quiver of one but only if you're an Eric Pollard kind of skiier that sees 40ft cliffs as another park feature to flip down... until that point I need to rethink my options. My every increasing list of options!
Balls! I knew this would happen - I'm now loving the sound of the Access 191's, Rossignol S3's and the Nordica Enforcer and that's on top of the Crows & the Mantras! Is this progress? I'm not so sure 
Done some research on the Mantras and word has it they've barely changed for the last 3 years and if they have its just a tweak and nothing noticeable in the driving seat. I cant find any comparisons between the 07's and the 11's though - just a lot of people saying how much they keep buying the Mantras year in year out!
As for the Gotamas - like the Mantras - just better at powder and not quite so keen when it comes to holding an edge on icey runs. Also a little softer. The feedback on these is really sensational but I get the feeling they're designed for West Coast skiers that call the gotama a 'one quiver ski' because they do 80/20 pow/piste (lucky b******s!) and for people looking for a second ski for powder but who don't want to relearn the way they ski for the sake of some big-ass boats. If I could guarantee powder days like that I'd be all over these like a starving fat kid on a cookie. I guess if I was looking for a ski like this I'd have to start looking at skis like the Rossi S7 (which I've demo'd and is RIDICULOUSLY fun in powder and trees)...
I think I need to demo these skis somehow or maybe just find an absurdly cheap deal on one of them and just hope... They're all clearly great, loved and tick all the boxes - its gotta be a matter of taste and personal opinion now then the ski having any major shortfallings.
Is there any point demoing these skis in England - I've never been to an artificial snow centre before. Recommendations?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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crazedbiker, An off piste biased ski will not demo well in a snow dome. I ski a 98 underfoot and find it bearable in the bumps, great on the groomed and great in the pow. It's a compromise really but I can't find a downside 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 28-11-10 20:56; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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crazedbiker, My boyfriend got a pair of S3s which he has just skied on and loves, they're pretty cheap at Sport Conrad.
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crazedbiker, if you do most of your skiing offpiste you'll be fine with a 106 waisted ski - it's not just powder where a bit of width helps! It'll only be only be really hardpacked/icy pistes that you'll want something else. gotama really isn't a dedicated pow ski.
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crazedbiker, I recommend the Navis. Mine are last years and I chose them over the Mantras. An amazingly versatile go anywhere ski. You just have to find a way to demo them all to find out what's right for you, I really wanted to like the Mantras, but couldn't get on with them at all, whereas from the first moment the Navis were magic! Incidentally I'm the same weight as you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ww166no: thank you - Definitely reassuring to hear you're the same weight - people have been saying it can feel too short for heavier skiiers. I'm gonna try to find these navis. I really need to try these skis for myself.. Great excuse to go skiing sooner than later ...
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I have skied the Mantra's a lot and really like them, they were my ski of choice from a hole load I tested back in 08 with pretty much the same intentions as you. Its worth bearing in mind that they are a stiff aggressive ski that suits heavier riders or will need to be worked hard to get the best out of them - with this in mind I can see exactly why the lighter reviews above may not have liked them. Basically just like sideshow bob above the reasons some people don't like them are the same reasons I did!
With your weight and level you should be able to work them easily. They don't like going slow that much, and not the best in the bumps but fine if your technique is up to it. They love off piste, have skied them in all conditions, big powder field, narrow couloirs, tree runs (great in La Grave where there are plenty of all three!). I had the 184 but you could probably handle the 191, but depends on what you want, the 184 will defo handle your weight just as well and be more turny for the trees and bumps, 191 better for charging open faces and big lines.
I have also tried a friends Navis for a few runs on piste, also a great ski as stated above and well worth you testing. I would want more time on them and some off piste to give a proper opinion but skiing them only made me want to try them out properly which is a good sign. Personally I would say you can ski them a bit more relaxed than the Mantra which needs more focus, but then I like that in a ski which is why I bought the mantra.
For reference I'm 6'2" 80kg and style wise I'm a fast aggressive skier, much more GS than slalom.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 8-12-10 13:29; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Also I would not consider the SFB based on what you have suggested you are looking for. They are a great ski but much more freestyle orientated and feel like a park ski for soft snow, which is great fun but it doesn't sound like thats what your after.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sideshow_Bob, +1
Good that we all like different things.............. having never skied the ones you preferScarpa, its impossible for me to be objective re the others but I do really like my Mantras 184, they need working and I am a "heavier rider", maybe thats a factor but I'm happy with them 100%. 
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crazedbiker, Head for Cham - the best place to try Black Crows. . . and anything else! They sold out early last year if I remember right, as did Mantras. PM me if you're in town.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm back and brimming with ski insight so here it goes...
First thing I have to say is that there wasnt a bit of fresh snow in 9 days. The powder wasn't easy to find and the stuff I was skiing on was mostly mogally off-piste steeps with 'dustings' of snow and icey pistes. In other words, the worst conditions possible for trying out fat wasted all mountain/freerides. Lucky me!
However, this test isn't entirely useless as these skis are meant to be 'quiver-of-ones' and should be able to handle pretty much everything. Since they're all regarded as being great off piste this is more a test of how they stand up in bad conditions.
To those that haven't read the whole thread, I'm 6'5, just shy of 90kgs, a fairly aggressive skier with a constantly changing style, I do a fair bit of trees, drops, jumps, pistes, and general all mountain charging/playing around.
The skis I tested...
2011 Black Crow Corvus (185 cm)
2011 Black Crow Navis (175 - they didn't have anything longer  )
2011 Volkl Mantra (186)
2011 Volkl Gotama (186)
First the Corvus...
Great looking sums the Corvus up. Always got comments and looks when riding these. They instill a lot of confidence on the crud and the variable offpiste and are meant for charging.
They are very stiff and this is their downfall on-piste. By far the least maneuverable of the skis on test. I think if I'd had a chance to put them through some powder they'd have been really really fun. Though the guys in the shop were selling them to me as all-mountain, I'd put them as 85/15 offpiste/piste.
Navis
Again, a good looking ski with a nice big twin tip. Riding switch is exceptionally easy with these skis, even in fairly dodgy snow. At 175 they were WAY too short for me - great fun on jumps and through the bumps but at speed i didn't feel nearly as stable and they felt quite soft. I think in a 185 all the issues I found would have been sorted. However, still a touch soft - great for park and backcountry freestyle stuff but at the end of the day, too soft for me and what I get up to most of the time. Just a personal preference.
The Mantras
Relatively, a stiff ski. It did everything on the tin and performed as i expected it to with great response when you dig the edges in. As the most piste oriented of the skis I tried, I thought they didn't handle the ice well (relatively!). Great all mountain ski especially on the steep bumpy sections though I wouldn't recommend it for jumps/park.
The Gotamas
Love love love these skis!! For such a wide wasted ski they turned exceptionally well on piste, wide and narrow turns. They felt fantastic when taking big carving lines down the mountain. The reverse camber and slight rocker meant they rose well in the powder i tried and felt much nimbler than a 186 usually does. They love to go fast and they felt considerably more playful than the Mantras. They had a nice amount of pop and were fairly forgiving on jump landings. You have to pay attention to get the most of these skis - lose concentration and you may end up catching an edge but give them your all and drive them and you're left grinning from ear to ear. With the Navis, you get a similar experience that requires less concentration but to me, this would probably make me a sloppy skier. They have more of a twin than the mantras and felt slightly softer in the tail. Not a big thing in the general scheme of things but I like riding switch from time to time so this a bonus.
To summarise, as you might of guessed, I've gone for the Gotamas. The Navis are brilliant and great fun but without trying the longer versions I didn't feel comfortable taking the plunge. Tipping me in favour of the Volkls was pretty much their confidence at speed. I wouldn't advise these for a light skiier, at least not at this or the 190+ length but at 84+ kgs you get lots of pop from them. They're quite heavy, esp with Dukes on so unless you got quite strong legs they will probably be tiring on touring days (not that these or the dukes are for touring!).
I would advise every one of the skis I demo'd. They were all recommended to me by friends and general word of mouth for good reason. For me though, its the Gotamas that'll keep me grinning on the slopes for the forseeable future. Awesome.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Haven't tried the latest Gotamas but I'm sure they are a great ski, have always liked every Volkl ski I've tried as they always seem to feel a little more focussed than most of the competition which I like. Good luck with them and have fun 
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