Poster: A snowHead
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I had two separate incidents last week which left me wondering 'what if....'
They both involved being asked by an instructor to take young children (6) on a chairlift. Something I expect a lot of us have done willingly on several occasions, as have I. In incident A the young boy ended up in a bit of a heap as he fell over once we had actually got off the lift. Incident B ended up in a frantic exit as the child didn't seem to understand how he had to take his feet out of the way in order to lift the bar up and we nearly ended up going back down hill. I guess neither situation was helped by the fact that my French is only passable and therefore I wasn't able to communicate with the children as well as I would have liked.
No real harm was done either time but it got me thinking about what exactly are my responsibilities in these situations? By agreeing to accompany a child am I then accountable for any harm which may come to them - What if something (God forbid) serious had happened to one of the children? Does anybody just refuse to take a child up with them? I must admit that for the rest of the week I just tried to avoid getting into that situation again but I guess the children have to get up the mountain somehow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In legal terms I doubt you have any responsibilities at all.
I'm always happy to ride up with kids not least because I have some sympathy for the instructor trying to get their charges up the hill as safely and quickly as possible. Never had any major issues, although did squish a child's arm once when lowering the safety bar. Only noticed when she started to wail
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar wrote: |
...I'm always happy to ride up with kids not least because I have some sympathy for the instructor trying to get their charges up the hill as safely and quickly as possible. Never had any major issues.. |
Same here.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just say to the instructor "sorry, I am not allowed near children any more" - they won't put one on a lift with you. They all speak enough English to understand. Or just push the kid over before they get to the pick up point for the lift
Personally, I hate being given responsibility for children that I have not signed up for. I am on holiday. If they need more carers, they need to get them, use parents to assist, or keep the kids on drag lifts.
Or, of course, they could have better child seats on chairlifts - in Tignes some lifts now have special things under the bar (we named them cockblockers, because if they came down a bit quick before you were back in your seat they could catch things, if you know what I mean) but would make me a lot happier to have kids on the lift, because I don't need to watch them like a hawk as we go up to make sure they're not slipping out of their seat.
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rob@rar, you're a bit different. BASI trained and that.
As an average punter I've found it quite scary and rather an onerous responsibility when I've been arbitrarily put in charge of someone else's kids, while dangling from a wire 100 feet in the air.
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Mr Technique wrote: |
rob@rar, you're a bit different. BASI trained and that.
As an average punter I've found it quite scary and rather an onerous responsibility when I've been arbitrarily put in charge of someone else's kids, while dangling from a wire 100 feet in the air. |
Just get rid of the responsibility over the netting at the bottom. Saves on an embarrassing situation later on. I find a hand on the head guarantees they will "slip" down and land in the netting below. Be firm to avoid them hanging on for their life. I believe pushing hard on top of someone's head is now known as cafetiering, a term often used when pushing a reluctant girlfriend's head towards one's crotch.
I think above I have demonstrated why I am not suitable to be on a chairlift with a child
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I had 2 french kids ride with my daughter and me once, they could have only been about 5. One insisted on looking under the bar and the other refused to lift his feet as we approached the top. My cries of arrete got the lifty to stop us by which time the kid had raised his feet and had an angelic smile on his face. I'm always reluctant now.
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Mr Technique wrote: |
rob@rar, you're a bit different. |
Quite probably, but I assure you it's nothing to do with BASI training
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Quote: |
I believe pushing hard on top of someone's head is now known as cafetiering, a term often used when pushing a reluctant girlfriend's head towards one's crotch.
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Profanisaurus?
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You know it makes sense.
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Incident B happened to me in Val Thorens and there were 2 of the little darlings aged about 4. The spent the whole ride chatting to each other and didn't notice when we were getting near the top; my shrieks of "attention les pieds" got their att0netion but there wasn't enough time to get the bar up and for us all to get off before the chair went round again. I managed to lift child 2 off the seat and plonk him down then I had to launch myself off and avoid child 1 and 2. It could have been nasty; the liftie just stood watching then eventually dragged one of them out of the way.
I have always disliked taking children up (I don't have children) and I will avoid doing it ever again.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Give me children over a novice boarder anyday
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
Give me children over a novice boarder anyday |
Indeed. If there's two or more novice boarders I will avoid getting on that chairlift.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mr Technique, completely agree. It's not what I signed up for.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar wrote: |
Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
Give me children over a novice boarder anyday |
Indeed. If there's two or more novice boarders I will avoid getting on that chairlift. |
+1, worth it for the extra 20 second wait and joy to behold at the other end....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A child was once put on a chairlift in andorra, next to me by the instructor (who didn't even ask me). Moments later the child started to slide under the bar and was only saved from a 10 foot fall by me grabbing the child by his arm. The lift was then stopped and the child was dangling with me hanging onto him for dear life. We managed to get him off the lift safely but it could of been a whole lot worse.
Now I am always wary of unaccompanied kids on my chairlift.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Chasseur, on the other hand, novice boarder lift conversation is often hilarious. I don't say a word, hoping they'll think I'm French and not speak to me. Listening to them blathering on about "rad olly dude", "check that switch riding" "ooh, a 180 with a smear grab" and other such twaddle, only to crumple in a heap when getting off the lift, crawl to the side, then do the "I'll just sit here and look cool for a bit" thing by the side of the piste.
...sorry, got into a bit of a rant there....
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Stromp!
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Dr John, normally they're "so stoked man", you can hear them from one chair back anyway.....
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I just take my own kids on lifts - avoids being given anyone elses
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boris, do you leave them on and keep repeating the process until you fancy another run
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Chasseur, true, also easier to get the cross-hairs on the back of their heads from there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Having worked on the other side, so to speak, I want to say a really big thank you to anyone who does take a child up with them.
I once waited around 20 minutes at the bottom of a lift, partly because it was a horrible horrible day weather wise, and anyone over 10 who had a choice in whether they skied or not had left the mountain, so we only saw a few people come by, and partly because a lot of people said no. Sometimes it's really difficult to avoid chairs - I worked in Zermatt (for those of you who know it), and all sides were closed except for Sunnegga. My kids that day were way past the kids park, and other than repeating the Blauherd - Sunnegga blue runs over and over, where visibility was dubious, we ended up down in Findeln and playing on Eisfluh. Chairlift or bust.
If you say yes, I promise we will appreciate it. And if a kid behaves like a little git, tell the instructor at the top. That way, I will take them myself the next time, and give them a verbal clip around the ear for being a pain. I know I always tried to keep the difficult ones with me or give them to another instructor, and give punters the nicer, more able kids.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Having worked on the other side, so to speak, I want to say a really big thank you to anyone who does take a child up with them.
I once waited around 20 minutes at the bottom of a lift, partly because it was a horrible horrible day weather wise, and anyone over 10 who had a choice in whether they skied or not had left the mountain, so we only saw a few people come by, and partly because a lot of people said no. Sometimes it's really difficult to avoid chairs - I worked in Zermatt (for those of you who know it), and all sides were closed except for Sunnegga. My kids that day were way past the kids park, and other than repeating the Blauherd - Sunnegga blue runs over and over, where visibility was dubious, we ended up down in Findeln and playing on Eisfluh. Chairlift or bust.
If you say yes, I promise we will appreciate it. And if a kid behaves like a little git, tell the instructor at the top. That way, I will take them myself the next time, and give them a verbal clip around the ear for being a pain. I know I always tried to keep the difficult ones with me or give them to another instructor, and give punters the nicer, more able kids.
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Chasseur, no they leave me on until they fancy another run
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You know it makes sense.
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Boris,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We were in La Plagne last year, when we got a small French boy with us (Est 4/5 years old). We were mid way though the length of the lift when my wife screamed the boy is falling off!.
As I was talking to her, I had not noticed that he was indeed sliding off the chair. I grabbed him by the top of his coat and dragged him back onto the seat. Without any doubt, had my wife not noticed him sliding off he would have fallen out of the chair. At this point the lift was at one of its highest points and was passing over a car park and a hotel at floor 6. Had he have fallen he would have been a goner!
From that moment on, we became very careful every time we had a child put with us.
Again, we also was asking the question, what would have happened if......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've never had a problem with taking children on chair lifts when we are going up. I suppose its because when our children were smaller they were always in ski school and therefore relied on others to get them to the top. I find a little helping hand in the back on landing for the small ones works fine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w wrote: |
I'd rather take little kids up a lift than get my head shoved reluctantly towards somebody's grotty crutch, thanks. |
Count yourself lucky to be given the choice
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rob@rar wrote: |
Indeed. If there's two or more novice boarders I will avoid getting on that chairlift. |
It's good that so many people feel like that, as it ensures of my strategy of pretending to look like a novice boarder in the queue is usually succesfull in putting off anyone from sitting next to me so I get a bit of space and no damn ski's taking chunks out my board with their edges once we're up.
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Does this ever happen in the UK? Scotland? Presumably asking someone to be the custodian of a child whilst on a chairlift would, in the UK, require everyone with a lift pass to have passed a CRB check.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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http://www.independent.ie/national-news/girls-survival-a-miracle-after-30ft-fall-from-ski-lift-2000693.html
This is why I won't do it. "Local police said that adults travelling with children had a duty of responsibility to make sure the safety bar was down and that they were secure." and "There are still many open questions about how the accident could have occurred . . . it is shocking that there is so little sense of responsibility."
No, it really isn't. It wasn't their responsibility. If the kid isn't big or safe enough to stay on the lift, they don't get on the lift. If they can't even trace a couple that were on a lift when a girl fell and was seriously injured, I imagine they'd have a lot of trouble tracing a sexual predator that has just spent 20 minutes on a chair abusing a child...
I just don't want the chance of that happening. Kids are welcome to learn to ski, but not to be a burden on people like me.
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I don't know the situation now, but 7 years ago in Winter Park none of the chair lifts had safety bars. I ended up with 2 rug rats on a lift who were either testing out darwins theroy of natural selection, or trying to put the sh*** up a brit tourist "they suceeded". After that experience I'm totally chilled with kids on chair lifts in Europe.
You have to be some sort of miserable git who doesn't want to help out a young kid on a chair lift.
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