Poster: A snowHead
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So, I'm trying to planning my next ski trip for end of Jan / beginning of Feb and am looking for a bit of advice ....
Have decided to go with a package hol (probably with Mark Warner) and am trying to decide on the resort. I'm tempted by Courmayeur in Italy, but am just a little concerned with small size of the resort. So have been looking at larger options in Les Deux Alpes or Meribel.
If it helps, myself and GF ski mainly on-piste and in the last few hols have tended to stick to reds and 'not-too-tricky' blacks.
So, can anyone help me with some pros/cons for these resorts to help me make a decision?
Thanks in advance for the advice!
PS. We went to Tignes in December for a coaching week and whilst it's a awesome area, I wouldn't want to go back too soon (just in case someone was going to suggest it as an alternative).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Those resorts are very diferent from each other in character, and as you don't really give us much to go on as far as your ski experience is concerned, it is quite hard to advise.
Courmayeur is a bit on the small side if your are km hungry, but is a delightful town and you can easily get to La Thuile and Pila to extend your options. It is spot on for good reds and easy blacks. Good value bars and restaurants.
Deux Alpes, I think, suits experts or beginners. It has superb challenging blacks and good beginner slopes. It is a pleasant town and good value by French standards.
Meribel is smack in the middle of what many think to be the best piste skiing on the planet. It has everything a piste skier could dream of but is expensive.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Those resorts are very diferent from each other in character
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yep ... realise they're all rather different .... but can get a decent discount with Mark Warner so have pulled out the ones from their brochure that caught my eye.
So, I guess I'm looking for honest pros/cons for each.
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you don't really give us much to go on as far as your ski experience is concerned
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I guess we'd be described as reasonable intermediates. Have had quite a bit of coaching over the last couple of years (mainly in Tignes/Val D) which has made a big difference - so we're looking for a resort that will challenge, but not frighten us (if you know what I mean!)
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Meribel. 3 Valleys is a piste skiers dream. 2 Alpes is generally a bit cheaper, though. Have never been to Courmayeur so can't comment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I wouldn't want to spend a whole week in Courmayeur. It's crap.
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I've spent a week in all three resorts over the past few years. Chronology - L2A, Meribel, Courmayeur. I'll try and give you the background to each trip and my ability at the time...
L2A late feb. I was a good intermediate having done a season as a rep in Italy the year before. Went with GF - also good int. (she'd also done a season).
Pro's. - good km of piste, glacier skiing, challenging reds an blacks, able to ski la Grave (a must with a guide),v. good lift system, big village, good aprez, not too british!
cons - It's always difficult to remember the cons as memory is very selective. I loved the holiday. However, the runs back to the village were a nightmare. A narrow blue track or an icy black! A bit of bitch at the end of a good day's skiing. Also, there weren't many easy reds/difficult blues.
Meribel, early march the year after L2A.
pro's - Great piste skiing; really unbelievably massive area.
Cons - crowded, village full of King's rd tossers, wouldn't go back.
It's difficult to put my finger on why I didn't like it as I have no real memories of it. But that's probably it: Not memorable.
Courmayeur. -mid march, 4 years after Meribel. By now I'd worked another season and improved a bit.
Pro's - Good variety of reds and blacks, interesting mountain, challenging moguls, good lifts, no crowds, some of the best mountain restaurants in the alps(for all budgets), good lift-accessed off piste, proper village atmosphere.
cons - fairly limited km's.
Hope this helps.
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^^^ decent summary...
Meribel is very sloaney, LDA rather yobbish...
Are there no other MW places you'll consider?
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I'd back up pretty much everything that's been said - Meribel's great if you have the money and cut glass accents don't make your fillings fall out. Les Deux Alpes has great slopes but the town lacks a little alpine charm. Courmayeur does have charm, prices are generally cheaper in Italy, but pretty runs could become limiting after a week. Go to LDA.
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abj, I can agree with everything Chris Bish, wrote
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But I must anyway say! I have make season in Courmayeur, so if U like offpist skiing, Courmayeur is a diamond in the alps,, not like chamonix or verbier with alot off powderstress after a dump, skier that go to Courmayeur like to be in the pists,, they are lovely to
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've not skied in Courmayeur, but it involves a lift ride up and down, doesn't it? If that's not a problem, then you can ride the lifts down in LDA. It surprises me when people moan so much (rightly) about the runs back to the village - there are plenty of good slopes of all standards further up, ride down in the lift, like you do every day in many, many, excellent resorts. Problem solved.
I don't much like Meribel though I've not spent much time there - preferred Mottaret, further up the valley, which is more convenient for much of the skiing. Or Courchevel. Meribel is quite low. It's also very sprawly - some accommodation is a hike from the skiing. when I stayed there, early season (mid December, last minute cheapy) the chalet provided transport to the lifts in the morning but the walk back was a bit of a pain - especially when I got lost the first time because parts of Meribel are just like a suburban housing estate, everywhere looked like everywhere else, and I hadn't paid enough attention to where the driver was going in the morning.
They'd all give you a good holiday, though they are certainly different. I'd be inclined to choose the one which would involve least walking in ski boots. And that depends where the MW accommodation is.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abj, if you want to get the piste k's in and improve while your doing it, then it's Merbel no question. Good point made about Mottaret, it's access is better (just) than Meribel. The one problem with it is the lack of Apres and post dinner spots. There are a couple, but it can best be described as sedate. The Kings Road aspect is overstated, there are many bars there so the braying kids are easily avoided.
Cormayeur is a lovely and sophisticated town, but like many I found the cable car across the valley each morning and evening a pain, especially as we'd skied out the resort after 3 days.
Not been to LDA so can't comment.
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However, the runs back to the village were a nightmare. A narrow blue track or an icy black! A bit of bitch at the end of a good day's skiing.
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just to disagree slightly with this. LDA has one green (not blue) coming down and yes it is narrow and crowded. Valentin is a black and does get icy and crowded too. However there are 2 other blacks starting from the top of Les Cretes which are far quieter and usually in much better condition. NB LDA are changing the names of most of their pistes this year which may cause some confusion.
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You know it makes sense.
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LDA are changing the names of most of their pistes this year which may cause some confusion.
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I was only just beginning to get the hang of them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, I'd got them pretty well cracked after 6 visits. The Grand Couloir now becomes the far less imressively sounding Bellecombes 5
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Poster: A snowHead
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I found the cable car across the valley each morning and evening a pain
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I can only agree that is a pain in late afternoon,, If U get up early and be at the cabin when they open its not a problem,, its very difficult for Italian and french people to come up from bed in the morning
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for all the advice so far.
red 27 wrote: |
Are there no other MW places you'll consider? |
Hmmm, good question.
I'd be happy to look at Courchevel and St Anton ... but I've always had pretty mixed reports on these two, so am a little wary. But happy to take advice!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Quote: |
I've always had pretty mixed reports on these two, so am a little wary. But happy to take advice!
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On what criteria could Meribel be rated above Courchevel (which is in the same ski area but generally reckoned to be the valley offering the best all round range of skiing). St Anton is different - can imagine why that might get "mixed reports" in that it's not a great place for beginners or timid intermediates).
If offered a cheap MW holiday in any of their resorts, personally I'd plump for Courchevel 1850. Then I'd eat a huge breakfast, go out for the day with a few cereal and choc bars in my pocket, ski my legs off, stop for a couple of rests/drinks in the relatively less expensive places, and get back in time to enjoy the chalet tea prior to a hot shower, a siesta and an hour or so with a good book. Big dinner, with as much wine (reasonable quality hopefully) as I want, then be in bed by about 11, ready to repeat the breakfast routine and get on the first lift the following day. Maybe head over to Val Thorens or to the Meribel Valley (Mont Vallons particularly).
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pam w is right. Courchevel is a better place to stay for 3 Valleys skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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maggi, In midwinter I find Courchevel as the best choice in the 3 Valley but from end of Mars Val Thorens is the best
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freeheelskier, I agree with that but the OP said,
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my next ski trip for end of Jan / beginning of Feb |
so Courchevel it is!
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maggi, I´m complete Ok with U,
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abj, those two are way better than the three you mentioned
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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abj, there are some "hyper expensive" restaurants in Courchevel - and it isn't always entirely obvious which, till you've sat down with your hot chocolate. But in general I don't think it's any more extortionate than Meribel. I was amused to see the "Happy Hour" prices in that English pub place at the Rondpoint, which were about the same as the all day prices in smaller French resorts. Prices throughout the 3V (like the Espace Killy) are pretty daft. I was thinking of that yesterday, when we had two coffees for 2.60 in a café in Combloux and there was nobody collecting money in the (nice clean warm) toilets.
And one of the great joys of a catered chalet is you have to spend scarcely any money on food and drink, if you don't want to.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Slightly different take on LDA:
Pros:
Great bars and restaurants in town (eg. Le Cellier)
Challenging blues
La Fee (red) is huge fun and easier than it looks
Great blacks
Excellent grooming (though Valentin gets icy)
La Bergerie Kanata is a great lunchtime mountain hut
MW hotel well situated and has cosy atmosphere
Cons:
Poor lift system that could barely cope when resort was 90% empty mid Dec
Slightly limited in extent (especially when Pied Moutet sector closed)
MW hotel should be called Fawlty Towers 2
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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truffaut, thanks for the info.
Have pretty much ruled out LDA for this time around - so your 'cons' have reassured me that I've made the right decision on this one!
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I'd echo comments about courchevel 1850 over meribel in terms of skiing. the piste skiing around meribel imho is the worst in 3 vallees. courchevel has a great range of slopes. you just need to be careful which slopeside restaurant you pop in to. out of interest why have you ruled out alpe d huez? that resort has a lot going for it
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry to bust the Courchevel 1850 bubble, but give the choice between there and Meribel, it's Meribel every time.
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On what criteria could Meribel be rated above Courchevel
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Choice of good apres, range of reasonable resort restaurants and bars, range of reasonable mountain restaurants, attitude of virtually anyone working in said restaurants and bars.
There may be better fast cruise piste skiing on the Courchevel side, but seeing as the top of Saulire is accessed quicker from the Meribel side it's rather a moot point.
If you want, like PamW, to spend every evening in the chalet and not venture into town at all then great, go for it. If like me and many others you prefer to see a little bit of what the resort has to offer, then you'll be met with really extortionate prices (not just expensive, like Meribel & VlT), but a service attitude that stinks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poor lift system that could barely cope when resort was 90% empty mid Dec
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Hmm, never had problems in 6 visits at busier times. Were all the lifts open?
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Poster: A snowHead
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abj wrote: |
Thanks for all the advice so far.
red 27 wrote: |
Are there no other MW places you'll consider? |
Hmmm, good question.
I'd be happy to look at Courchevel and St Anton ... but I've always had pretty mixed reports on these two, so am a little wary. But happy to take advice! |
Go to Courchevel 1850.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Obviously it depends what you want to get out of your holiday. If I were after max apres I'd personally go for St Anton or LDA - but I've never been able to afford to go out and drink hugely overpriced drinks in crowded bars and never wanted to, for that matter. I'd much rather sit with a glass of good wine or Remy Martin and a good book, or chat with fellow chalet guests over similar drinks. The chalets I stayed in didn't have TV/DVD players - a retrograde step IMHO as I would hate to have others' choice of films or music forced on me in communal areas and I'm sure they'd not appreciate mine. I reckon DVD players belong in bedrooms only. I certainly wouldn't go to Courchevel 1850 (or anywhere else in the 3 Valleys, or anywhere else in France, probably) if the quality of the apres were as important to me as the quality of the skiing.
There are some excellent ski schools in Courchevel, by the way. maybe in Meribel too, but I've not used those.
My own choice wouldn't be any of those places, actually, but that's where Mark Warner goes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, my major concern is the quality/range of skiing - we tend to be of the the 'first lift up / last run down' types (although a couple of cheeky beers always soothes those aching legs, doesn't it!).
Funnily enough, I was going to ask about ski schools. I've been rather spoilt by some excellent ski schools recently, so a resort with some recommended instructors/schools would be a bonus.
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Abj, try LeSki (leski,com). I've been with them to 1650, La Tania and Val d'Isere. They employ good cooks and I have never been disappointed with the quality of chalet or organisation.
Courchevel 1650 is less than 10mins by free bus to 1850 but has its own large collection of runs or you can ski over. The ski shop they use is 50m to the first bubble.
Le ski do guiding and on one day we traversed from 1650 to St Martin de Belleville by lunchtime (and that's with a mixed ability group).
I've had the majority of my lessons in Courchevel and the english instructors based there have been particularly innovative.
Of course, Le Ski is based in Huddersfield and so you may get more Northerners than you can take in one go.
Cheers
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Our last chalet holiday was with Le Ski in 1650 - last minute bargain. Excellent. We had lessons with New Gen, who were also excellent. The snow in 1650 was the best in the 3 Valleys. We had lessons every morning so didn't get over to Val Thorens, but others in the chalet, who went everywhere, said Val Thorens was very stony and 1650 the best. The following week, which we had kept free of work in order to be able to potter, we went by accident to Les Saisies and as it had notably better snow than anywhere in the 3 Valleys - and coffees and beers at half the price - we bought an apartment here.
I can't remember where the other people in the chalet came from - they were one big group, but not at all cliquey, and all very enjoyable company. Half of them were ambulance drivers, if I remember rightly. I think they had more money to spend than we did - they went to a v expensive resto on the chalet staff night off. They invited us to join them, but we went to the street market, bought a selection of cheese and charcuterie, a baguette and a bottle of excellent vin rouge (for the price of a dead ordinary one in a resto) and sat by the roaring log fire and played chess. It felt like we owned the place.
The food in the chalet was really very good - much the best we'd had, but then we generally went more bargain basement. We wouldn't have paid full price for Le Ski -though it would still have been good value, even if we had.
I think Le Ski had an arrangement with New Gen - the instructors came to the chalet.
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abj wrote: |
pam w, my major concern is the quality/range of skiing - we tend to be of the the 'first lift up / last run down' types (although a couple of cheeky beers always soothes those aching legs, doesn't it!).
Funnily enough, I was going to ask about ski schools. I've been rather spoilt by some excellent ski schools recently, so a resort with some recommended instructors/schools would be a bonus. |
I've been to the 3V twice, learned to ski in Meribel, and love the place. Never noticed much in the way of Sloaneyness/toolery but we focus on skiing and do very little apres.
On both of our visits we stayed in Mottaret because it's cheaper and even better connected to the rest of the 3V than Meribel; ski school was based in Meribel, which meant a ten-minute warmup down a green run in the morning. It's a doddle to get over to Courchevel or Les Menuires from either.
I learned with the Magic Snowsports Academy and used them again in 2008 as an intermediate. They were great both times, for myself and my wife (who is advanced).
The only real problem we encountered was French school holiday crowds but that won't be a problem for you in early Feb.
My wife and I often ski with a friend who has done a couple of seasons in Meribel; when we visited Val D'Isere in 2009, we all agreed that the 3V ticked more of our boxes than the Espace Killy.
Otherwise, you might consider Les Arcs? Utterly brilliant for the mileage-hungry and probably a touch cheaper than Meribel.
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I haven't been to les 2 alpes.
Meribel - skied through it en route from val thorens to courchevel and didn't like it.
Courmayeur - a great resort to try, lovely mountain restaurants, pretty runs, nice town. You can ski the vallee blanche for a day when you've exhausted the runs in the resort. Your TO might also run a day trip to Argentiere or to one of the nearby Italian resorts.
I think the only drawback is having to take the cable car across the valley (not ski from the door).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Another vote for New Gen in Courchevel 1650, and also Ski Supreme (who are in 1850).
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