 Poster: A snowHead
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This is pretty geeky but i ask for a reason....When coaching what set of "grades" or criteria would make most intuitive sense to people when trying to explain to collegues where a student is at in terms of learning a new motor skill?
If you had to devise a grading or sorting system to put athletes into the correct groups for learning what would you use? a three phase, four or even 6 levels of grading? A few in usage include:
Cognitive phase - Identification and development of the component parts of the skill - involves formation of a mental picture of the skill
Associative phase - Linking the component parts into a smooth action - involves practicing the skill and using feedback to perfect the skill
Autonomous phase - Developing the learned skill so that it becomes automatic - involves little or no conscious thought or attention whilst performing the skill
IACR - (canuck system)
I = Initiation: understands the skill that is demoed
A = Acquisition : able to execute movements in the correct sequence
C = Consolidation : coordinated movements are starting to appear
R = Refinement : able to perform precise, smooth efficient movements
-OR-
Unconscious Incompetence
Conscious Incompetence
Conscious Competence
Unconscious Competence
BASI ish
1 I think I understand, but cant do it (awareness)
2 Now I get it and can occasionally do it (late awareness)
3 Is this OK? I am starting to learn how to do it, but not always done correctly (early practice)
4 I can do it if I think about it, but lacks consistency and versatility (late practice)
5 Can do it well, consistently with versatility, without having to think about it (acquired)
6 Can trust it even when the going gets tough, shows flair and creativity (late acquired and at subconscious level)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, The management ones - The 4 stages of competence have always made sense to me, I don't know if they are transferrable to skiing for you though:
Unconscious Incompetence
The individual neither understands nor knows how to do something, nor recognizes the deficit, nor has a desire to address it.
Conscious Incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, without yet addressing it.
Conscious Competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires a great deal of consciousness or concentration.
Unconscious Competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned
The above courtesy of Wikipaedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, yup i had that one in my OP but to be honest i think the term unconscious is pretty stupid and the first two stages dont make any sense for learning motor skills, ie stage 1 the learner would be standing on the mountain confused and doesnt know why they are there and doesnt want to ski...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Rick ish system
- They're wedging
- They're skiing parallel, pivoting and skidding with rotation
- They're steering with precision
- They're carving with little control over turn shape
- They're showing high level skill at carving
Most people can be pretty quickly and easily be placed into one of those categories, and it provides a pretty good idea of what the quality of the base skills will be once you start working with them. Takes less than a minute of observation to complete the evaluation, then it's time to get to work.
The phases of learning stuff above talks about how learning a new skill plays out, but doesn't really focus on what skill level the student is currently at. Students will be introduced to new skills all the way up the learning ladder, and will go through the same process of learning and adopting it with each. It's a separate concept from determining the actual skill level at which they currently reside.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, the first two I'm familiar with but both need an observing stage. The third is newspeak balderdash and BASI couldn't be breviloquent enough to write the instructions on how to wipe yer backside on less than 6 sheets of Isal bumwipe.
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I prefer the BASI system as it seems to match better what I see in clients trying to develop new skills, not least that it has a 'zero stage' of not really having a firm idea of what they are trying to do (something which is absent in the Canadian description). I also prefer the six stages as it describes/allows an inconsistency of performance within each stage better than the Canadian system where the step from one stage to another is large. Having said that I tend not to think about what stage of learning my clients are at using any of these descriptions, just think about what is required to get them to be more proficient at whatever skill we're working on.
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| FastMan wrote: |
| Students will be introduced to new skills all the way up the learning ladder, and will go through the same process of learning and adopting it with each. It's a separate concept from determining the actual skill level at which they currently reside. |
Yes, it is a separate concept, but useful to be reminded that skills acquisition is an iterative process where even the most accomplished skier will return to the lower stages of skill acquisition when they are trying to do something new?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Masque wrote: |
| The third is newspeak balderdash |
Hello Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
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skimottaret, I believe the first and third examples you give are essentially the same aren't they? (Fitts and Posner). BASI just goes into a bit more detail.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| skimottaret, I believe the first and third examples you give are essentially the same aren't they? (Fitts and Posner). |
Yes, that's correct. BASI split each stage F&P stage into two to allow a clearer sense of progression, and the language used how the student might describe their skiing or what the instructor might see. Other than that it they are the same in terms of describing of skills are acquired.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| BASI split each stage F&P stage into two to allow a clearer sense of progression, and the language used how the student might describe their skiing or what the instructor might see. Other than that it they are the same in terms of describing of skills are acquired. |
I used F&P when coaching cricket, It may not be the most in depth explanation of learning & Development, but it is definitely the simplest to apply and explain.
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I'd have to echo FastMan in basing it on the outcome in relation to the desired task. If the task being achieved then it's a question of refinement to improve efficiency & speed of movement.
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, The
or the
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Unconscious Competence
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is an area that has always interested me, this might be a little off thread but hope it is useful, when put into context of the unconcious competence aspect of skiing
My observations come from hand eye co ordination toy called Swingamajig or as the Japanese call it Kendama, to use the toy to a top level is only possible in an unconscious competence state of brain activity. The Japanese have been trying to develop robots to replicate this brain state using this toy as a model for years, with I believe little success. Its just too complex for a computer, however the brain can do it without even thinking about it, in fact if you think about it, it is not possible to move onto the next level with this toy.
However it is possible to teach kids before the age of 13/14 to use this toy and it has been found that their brains enter a state of unconscious comp quite quickly, however when attempting this with adults it takes a significantly more time for the adults to develop this skill. I have read before that the natural level of hand eye co ordination for people is reached at the age of 13/14 and after this age practise can improve a skill but not the base level of hand eye co ordination.
Is this also true of adults and skiing? Leg eye co ordination if such a phrase exists!
So does each new skill level attained have to move to a unconscious comp state before they can go onto the next skill and so on and so on??
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