Screen Wash

A snowHead

Hi All.

My tesco concentrate (yes I know it is cheap) screenwash(diluted 1:1) kept freezing at -2 the other day (IE all the way from Aviemore. I had to stop all the time and squirt some concentrate on the screen.

Anyway, apart from adding methanol (undyed) or ethanol to it (I can get this in large quantities easily) is there a off the shelf cheap type that will protect down to -15?
I haive a euro car parts up the road but also sometimes dealers are amazingly cheap for werd things like this eg Renault roof bars are cheaper from the dealer than halfords (rip off merchants) or even ebay.

Cheers
Bob

A snowHead

Costco do a very effective and reasonably priced one which works down to about -15, the large french supermarkets near the alps all carry similar products.

hth

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glasgowcyclops, can't help with the chemistry but marketing wise whatever it says on the container half it, ie -10c will be -5c max.

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Hi Scotwiki

I have acostco card so I'll pop over the Sighthill Glasgow to get some.

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I bought some just from a petrol garage and it was -23. Dunno at all what it was though....

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the stuff my dad got said -5c when used neat. would be from Halfords, B+Q or similar I guess. stuff I got says -61c when used neat, bought from the nearest German equivalent to B+Q (5 hours away from the alps).
Agree with the "halve whatever it claims" rule though. I had some stuff good for -20c start freezing at -13c.

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Just remember it may only be -5 outside, but add 60 mph of wind chill and its -30C on your windscreen, NO fluid with water in it will be a liquid at that.

Thats why better cars have heated windsreens, or you need to turn your heater to max and onto the glass to stop the wash refreezing

Also Mondeo Ghia's (the old ones) have heater washer jets, these fit most cars and just need wiring to an ignition fed supply

After all it is free

madmole,

I know it's a long time since I did physics, but I can't possibly understand how windchill can have an effect on your windscreen. Either water will freeze (water temperature below zero) or it won't (water temperature above zero).

glasgowcyclops,

Just don't dilute screenwash this time of year.

The wife's Seat has heated widescreen jets (and headlight jets!) and they work okay as long as you squirt for long enough each time.

' it may only be -5 outside, but add 60 mph of wind chill and its -30C on your windscreen'

No it won't. It will still be -5. Wind chill will make it feel colder to us humans, and will cause something to drop to -5 much quicker, but it won't go below -5.

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How do you measure wind chill then?

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Lidls 5.99 for about 4 litres - great down to -40C (IIRC) I haven't seen a cheaper, better product.

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RobW, martinm, Even if the washer fluid is liquid as it leaves the nozzle, the windchill will cool the fluid very quickly and possibly freeze it as it hits the screen. It probably wouldn't freeze on contact if your car was stationary, but might if you're doing 60mph, so windchill can have an effect.

I use Costco washer fluid, 5L for about £4.50, use it neat.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Spyderman, I don't follow your logic. Windchill is by all the dictinaries I've bothered to consult the effect of wind on (human) skin, therefore it CANNOT apply to windscreens.

If windchill applied to other objects then given a gale-force wind, water would freeze at +5degC (or thereabouts), depending on the windspeed.

Of course, if the water is already pretty close to zero, then hitting a sub-zero windscreen may cause it to freeze - but that would happen even if the vehicle was stationary - when I think you'd admit that windchill cannot be a factor.

A snowHead

RobW, The wind increases the speed at which the liquid freezes, so liquid leaving the nozzles at near freezing would be rapidly chilled before it hits the windscreen. The windscreen would be chilled faster if the car was moving than if it was stationary with no wind. The heater demister can not heat the windscreen as effectively when the car is moving as when it is stationary, because the movement of cold air over the screen chills the screen.

In commercial environments blast chillers are used to rapidly freeze products, why? because rapidly moving cold air freezes objects faster than still cold air.

A snowHead

another vote for the costco fluid. used neat it reckons -40, don't know about that but it's been good down to -15.

edited to remove reference to 'plus windchill' as I've now decided that it makes no difference wink

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Any recomendations for products for clearing of icy windscreens on frosty UK mornings?

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We had -15 screenwash on our recent trip and it froze at -8. Bought -60 from a service station in Germany and it was fine at -15 with a severe windchill!

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Wind chill+ water, snow cannons anyone? Probably a good example

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glasgowcyclops, plenty 'local' garages get their screen wash from 'Euro'. Mine were good down to about -6 through Glencoe the other day but started to freeze up after that. Sighthill? It has been a pleasure... Toofy Grin

After all it is free

I had the same problem on the way to Yad Moss yesterday. Been to Halfords today, they have own brand screen wash for -7 diluted or -15 neat. 5 litres was 4.99 but they have buy 2 get 1 free on at the moment. (they also do 1 litre or 2.5 litre on the same offer)

The Tesco stuff says -2 on the container, what is the point ?

I got some from a local car spares palce that did okay on the way to Scotland until I let it run low and then it froze up the jets till next morning.

Big mistake on Monday night, coming up the M6, run out of fluid, top up with water because it was warmed up and I could refill with neat screenwash at home. Forgot the refill and today my wife's Corsa reported -8. Time for a batch of hot screenwash methinks.

Basic physics says that dissolving pretty much anything in water reduces the freezing point, sp possiby you could add those detergent tablets to increase the concentration ?

Last year coming back from Weardale, I bought some screenwash at an Esso garage in Penrith, it formed a sort of pink Slurpy in the washer bottle.

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I'm surprised there can be a patent on heated windscreens for cars - aircraft have had them for at least 50 years. For example, the VC10 in the 60s had them. Admittedly the were expensive. They used layers of very thin gold film laminated into the glass. They also used to suffer from delamination, and so required replacement fairly often.

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mmmmm My land Rover has heated windscreen, Was owned by BMW at the time of manufacture and Ford didnt own it to 3 years later. So even if Ford own the patent its possible to license its use

As for those who think wind chill only applies to humans, didnt you do physics at school

Wind chill is the effect that moving air has on evaporationg fluids, as the air flows over the the fluid it evaporates some. This requires energy, so the energy is removed in the form of heat which cools the fluid. So fluid at -5C on the screen whill be chilled to -18C at 60mph, likewise the water in your skin can be frozen by the wind giving your cheeks and ears frost bite

Lick the back of your hand, then blow on it. Feel it get colder. Faster evaporating fluids chill even more which is why ether is used in a spray can to freeze pipes. Stick your hand out of the car window when at the lights (right now its cold), now do the same at 60 mph, bet you wont keep it there long!

Thats also why the MET office use dry bulb and wet bulb temperatures, the wet bulb temp is lower due to evaporation and the diffderence shows how humid it is (No wind inside a measuring box)

arv, Even worse. I take the shortcut through Possil. Am I hard or what? Happy

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I got some fab stuff (2.5 litres concentrated) from ASDA for £1. Laughing

I put it in neat and it has not frozen over the last 2 weeks. Even blasting up and down motorways it's been fine. That good i bought another 3 bottles last night.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Must have been during daylight hours Wink

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Hurtle, That sounds like the same stuff - I couldn't remember the exact details - in a square bottle with a double spout to let in air if they package it the same everywhere. It's REALLY good jollup I haven't had it freeze on me yet. They have stocked it three years running that I've seen so far so its just a case of finding it when they've got it in stock.

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Got some right cr@p from a Shell garage, can't remember the name but I put it in neat about 2 weeks ago and it's supposed to be good down to -15c, it froze in the bottle at -5c and didn't thaw out over the 200 miles drive to Glasgow, was still frozen this morning and all the way back from Glasgow. The screen got so mucky and dry I had to stop about 5 times on the hard shoulder to pour my bottle of coke onto the windscreen to get some liquid on it! I would have stopped at the services, but due to the fact I managed to miss the signs for the first few :s

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

mugen, was just a bit scary! Last resort was spraying deicer anywhere I could get it into the screenwash system, didn't bloody work! The M74 was a bit scary, pulling off the hard shoulder was impossible because you couldn't build up speed, then I got onto the motorway, slowly got up to about 50mph and thought "I'll be ok now" - Wrong, in 4th gear at 50 I still span my wheels, then realised the car was twitching in the slush, gently gently onto the brakes and the abs cut in. Was not a fun drive at all!

Spyderman, you can windchill well below ambient temp. How do you think the plumbers freeze cans for pipes can work in a room at 20C if you cant get below ambient? The lower limit is the temprature the substance you are evaporating freezes and ceases to evaporate at.

As an experiment, I have here a dog dryer. Its an extremely high power hair dryer. Without turning its heater on its blowing air at 10C in my workshop (heated at 10C). As a test I blew it on a wet cloth and cooled it to 1C (as well as blowing a ton of wax shavings that where hiding under my tuning bench everywhere!!!!!). I suspect if I could keep it wet it would freeze

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