 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Out of the two, Zermatt. But shouldn't the comparison be Zermatt v Val d'Isere? They are more comparable/complimentary resorts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for moving my post.
If you couldn't tell this is my first time posting anything so wasn't quite sure what to do! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RosieRowe, it's been a while since I have been to Zermatt but from memory the on piste skiing is more challenging in Espace Killy.
That said Zermatt is a beautiful place to ski and I think you will be hard pressed to find a bad meal there! It holds fond memories as we found out Mrs Psycho was pregnant with our first child while there! I have less fond memories of the price of pregnancy tests there especially as she insisted on doing 3! Enjoy your trip 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've skied both a few times. I think the blacks are pretty comparable although quite a lot of them are reclassified as itineraries in Zermatt now. Run's wise I would always suggest ascending from the Kleine Matterhorn lift and start with that area or Gornegrat which can also be accessed from that lift too. Plenty of relatively easy runs around those 2 areas. For Sunnegga I'd use the funicular. It's well worth a day in Cervinia too where there are loads of wide, perfectly pisted blues and reds, the 22km run to Valtournenche is great. There are loads of restaurants up and down the mountain ranging from reasonable to extremely expensive.
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RosieRowe, I too usually ski Tignes and went to Zermatt for the first time in April this year. The two places are vastly different and although I wouldn't want to put you off too much I enjoyed Zermatt much less. If you actually want to ski - versus eating, drinking and posing in the undeniably cuter village I would take Tignes any day.
Firstly, there are no (or almost no) black runs in Zermatt. As Colin B, says there apparently used to be but they have been reclassified. When I was there I was told this was due to a litigious American suing the lift company after getting injured on one of the former black runs. I have no way to validate that tale but the absence of blacks did seem very strange. I don't think there were any greens either but I may have forgotten them if there were. There are lots of reds, many of which are quite narrow compared to reds in the Espace Killy. This can present a problem when a narrow section is straight off the top of one of the enormous cable car lifts that can dump a couple of hundred skiers all at once into a narrow steepish slope with rocks off to the side. Specific choke points aside though, I would say that the reds in Zermatt are marginally easier than those in Tignes but there's not a lot in it.
The other big difference with the Espace Killy is the time it takes to get up from the village to skiable areas. There are bubbles and trains but whichever you choose you need to allow the best part of an hour to get from your accommodation to the point where you actually get your skis on. (I am sure that Zermatt-lovers will be along soon to tell you it's possible to do it a lot faster but I'm just relating my experience). The contrast with Espace Killy is enormous. As someone used to the lift system in Tignes you may think you have gone back in time by about forty years.
On the other hand there are good points. If you can get over to the Cervinia side I would agree with Colin B, about the pleasures to be found over there, both skiing and eating. There are some lively apres bars on the runs down to the village which are worth a stop late in the day. And the views of the Matterhorn are spectacular.
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Grading wise I would say fairly even. Get the pass that includes Cervinia/Valtourneche (called the International pass?). The Italian side is much cheaper for on mountain lunches.
From memory, try the following bars for apres:- Sparky's, Papparela, North Wall, Post/BrownCow.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bogusman wrote: |
| RosieRowe, I too usually ski Tignes and went to Zermatt for the first time in April this year. The two places are vastly different and although I wouldn't want to put you off too much I enjoyed Zermatt much less. If you actually want to ski - versus eating, drinking and posing in the undeniably cuter village I would take Tignes any day...... |
Rather astonishing comment. There is plenty of challenge in both resorts - and although L'Espace Killey is a larger area than Zermatt - the Zermatt area is still large - and has excellent off-piste. It is not so well-joined together by lifts as L'Espace Killey, though. 'Cuter'? Well, Zermatt still has elements of being a genuine village rather than being an architectural slum - and it is a place with tremendous heritage and ambience. If you are into the history of British climbing, visit the museum and - dare I say it - the cemetery.
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Bogusman, has some fair-ish points. It's possible to find accommodation in Zermatt that doesn't leave you with a long, slow start in the morning, but many Zermatt visitors need to rely on overcrowded buses and trains at the start of the day. Once up the mountain, though, the lift system is fast, modern and effective, but, in my view, it relies too heavily on cable cars which dump hundreds (literally) of hot, uncomfortable skiers onto the piste at the same time.
There are few blacks in Zermatt, but plenty of itineraries. These are fantastic if you want your skiing to be a little more challenging - long, quiet, steep and generally ungroomed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, Quite happy to concede that my somewhat jaundiced view of Zermatt is based on a single visit during which much of the off-piste was inaccessible due to lack of snow. Maybe if I went again I would be luckier in that respect but I doubt if it would change my preference. I agree with your view that Tignes isn't pretty although I think that slum is a bit of a strong word, but that counts much less for me than an efficient lift system that can have me skiing within a few minutes of leaving my front door in the morning.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have been to both, and Cervinia and Val D'isere... the linked resorts to Zermatt and Tignes, repsectively.
Personally, I prefer the ambience of Zermatt. I was there on New Years Day last year...and it was ridiculously busy first thing in the morning but I think that is because it was peak week. Once on the mountain the queues were non existent.
In terms of skiing, I love the terrain of both resorts. Tignes has the glacier and some 400km (I recall?) of piste. The runs down to Le Daille and VDI were great fun.
Zermatt still has a lot to offer. There were a real mix of runs coupled with some offpiste and itineries that were great fun. Certainly enough to keep me both entertained and challenged. The only problem was, I found, that I kept stopping every 100m to take photos of the matterhorn, the alpine train and the magnificent scenery.
Tignes, in contrast...is a concrete shitehole to look at.
With regards to food on the mountain....tis all about posing in Zermatt. Everyone sitting around in their furlined one piecers and sun glasses....a strong contingent of show off suntanned italians enjoying themselves. And the food was rather expensive. We resorted to the underhand tactic of stealing an additional breadroll from breakfast and packing it out with meats and stuffing in the rucksack.
Ski over the border and down into Cervinia, you will find cheaper food as well as blue motorway runs...although i found it a lot colder, in the shade and icier on the italian side.
I hope that this gives you some help
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I really don't get the comments about it taking ages to get up the mountain in Zermatt. If you get to the Kleine Matterhorn lift early, before it opens at 8.30, you avoid the crowds and can get up really high early. I seem to remember getting all the way to the top by soon after 9 am when lifts at most places are only just opening.
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You know it makes sense.
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Colin B, Yes, but a lot of people - especially of they are part of a group with stragglers and sleepyheads - often don't get to the lift before 8.30.......
And as I suggested in my first post I am sure there are ways to have a better morning experience. I was just relating the contrast with Tignes where you can be skiing a proper slope within 10 minutes of entering the square - almost without fail.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Regarding Zermatt Cable Cars - it used to be a horribly slow journey up the mountain, but the Matterhorn Express Bubble now takes you most the way up really quickly, with only the Klein Matterhorn Cable Car being the sole choke point now (but what a view as you go up!)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
shouldn't the comparison be Zermatt v Val d'Isere?
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Not when RosieRowe, has only ever skiied in Tignes! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RosieRowe, I have make seseons in Val d isere / Tignes and Zermatt,, If U only think about skiing,, a little more votes for Val d isere / Tignes,, If U want a nice place,,, Zermatt,,, Alot more votes from me,,,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RosieRowe, Don't be put off by some of the negative comments. Zermatt is a wonderful resort. Regarding your initial question, in my experience, Espace Killy runs are tougher than runs of equal grade in many other places i.e. a red in Tignes might be classed as a black in other resorts. I think Zermatt runs are fairly similar, maybe a shade easier grade for grade. There are some great itineraries around Triftji which as previous posters have indicated were once black - but this is now happening in Tignes quite a bit. As Colin B says, an early start can be useful for getting up the mountain ahead of the rest - but mid to late January is hardly peak time so the queues shouldn't be too bad. As for run recommendations, there are so many. The Matterhornpiste (69) is splendid and seems way away from anywhere else.But there are great runs all over. The glacier is much flatter than the Grande Motte - so avoid if it's very cold with strong winds. Make sure that one day you take the train up to Gornergrat and sit in the front carriage. It seems to take for ever but is a fantastic experience. People who haven't been there recently will tell you that it's very disconnected and hard to get from one area to another. It's certainly not as convenient as Espace Killy - one of the best connected resorts there is, I think, but it's improved a lot in recent years so you can easily get between the main areas.
As for eating, there are some wonderful mountain restaurants if you are not on a budget. The little hamlet of Findeln has a few that are excellent. Grunsee has a good one, but there are some excellent places in Cervinia.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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RosieRowe, Not WWIII, just a bit of healthy and friendly disagreement. 
It would be very interesting if you posted a review after your trip so we can see what you think.
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