 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I am a school teacher and am going on the school ski trip to austria at the end of february for 1 week.
I need to buy myself the relevant clothing and equipment to go but need a little help and advice from all you regular and experienced skiers!
I understand you are probably asked a lot about this so appreciate your time to answer my question.
What do i need to get in total? How many of each (eg socks, base layers).
I would like to buy a decent jacket that will last a good few years of yearly school ski trips. What brand would you recommend and what are the important features that are a must in a jacket?
I understand that buying good socks and gloves are a must, can you recommend a brand, and what are important features?
Base layers, brand that you would recommend?
Goggles, there are so many types out there, any recommendations, what do i need?
Salopettes - any recommendations of brands and important features? I am short (5ft 1) and a size 10, any recommendations on these for short people??
Snow boots to wear after the days skiing?? Any recommendations??
Thanks in advance
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Locky12, Hi, and welcome to Snowheads.
There is a large thread whic you might find helpful here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=22621
But for some personal views now, in order of what you list:
Jacket - don't worry too much about brand, just make sure it is both waterproof and breathable (minimum 5000/5000, preferably higher). You want to make sure there are underarm vents, because you will get too warm at times. All pockets must have zip closures, preferably with tabs that you can operate with gloves on. And a "powder skirt" is useful to stop snow getting inside your clothes when you fall. It is well worth looking in places like TKMaxx - you can get some good bargains on decent brands there. Make sure the front has both zip and popper or velcro closures, and that the zip is good and sturdy.
With socks, don't go for the "tube" type, and preferably buy a recognized winter sports brand you want socks that are thin, with just a little padding in the shin area.
Gloves should be well insulated, waterproof, with reinforced palms, and preferably at least two pairs, so you can leave one pair drying while you wear the other pair. And don't get too tight a fit.
Base layers - ideal is merino wool, with bamboo as the second best "natural" material. Capilene is supposed to be good among man made materials, but I'm not personally convinced that any man made material is as good as merino. Icebreaker are a good brand, but again, don't get too hung up on brands.
Goggles - ideally you want two pairs (or one pair with two interchangeable lenses). One for good light, when you need to cut down on glare, and one for poor/flat light, when you need to enhance contrast. Some people manage with sun glasses in good light, but goggles have the advantage of also providing wind protection, and being generally less fragile.
Salopettes (or trousers) - you want the same sort of waterproof/breathable features as for the jacket. You want a good high waist, which will be above the level of the jacket snow skirt, again in order to prevent snow getting in when you fall. You should have zips at the cuffs to help you get them over your ski boots, and reinforcement in the inner side of the cuffs, because you will catch that area with ski edges which will cut through the material otherwise. And inner gaiters at the cuffs to prevent snow ingress.
Boots for after skiing - pretty well whatever you feel comfortable in that have reasonable grip really.There are likely to be times you will be walking on packed snow, but it is unlikely you will need to venture through loose snow much.
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Jacket - Ski pass pocket on the left arm makes life easier
Goggles - The other option is for ones with reactive lenses which are good for most light except very bright sunlight, then you can change to your sunglasses
Boots - It's Austria, so you have to be able to dance on tables with them 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Locky12, Welcome to Snowheads
Surely a Gentleman as yourself should only be seen wearing whites..
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read that thread and you will not go far wrong.
How many socks /base layers you buy relates to how often you need/want to wash the kit whilst away ((if at all) and how smelly/not smelly you want to be. For a week, more than 1 and less than 6 would be the range
You can get most of what you will need by way of kit in a combination of Costco, T K Maxx, Marks & Spencer, Aldi and Milletts. My local Costco and T K Maxx do a lot of Trespass stuff pretty cheap. I have worn Trespass thermals in -25 in Canada and it has done fine......remember to layer your clothes as that keeps you warmer. Both shops usually have some good deals on microfleece as well. Thermals, a microfleece and a good jacket have done me for many years. I got my thermals from M & S (always remember, no cotton) . My ski socks are from Milletts and were a very good buy.
There is a lot of hype (in my view) in a lot of ski kit, stoked by the various manufacturers who would like us to be buying new jackets etc regularly to boost their profits. In my experience any good ski jackets and salopettes last a long time, unless you manage to tear the fabric somehow and even then repairs are possible. Also, if you are talking about a week a year in Austria my guess is that you do not need something which would keep you bone dry in a rain storm, not least as you will most likely not be in a rainstorm.
If you see jackets/salopettes with ratings it will typically be something like 3000mm or 5000mm or 10,000mm. The higher the better usually but the higher the more expensive as well and after a level you are just paying for extra that you never need on a normal ski holiday. I doubt that the bulk of skiers need more than 10,000, if that. I saw a 10,000 mm Trespass jacket (last seasons colour so discounted because of that) in T K Maxx at the weekend for £69.99. My guess is that it will be as waterproof as this seasons colour and that the colour will come back into season in a few years anyway
The important thing in a jacket is to keep you dry and warm (but not too warm). The rest is largely fashion. The same applies to salopettes. Good waterproof and warm (but not too warm) gloves are essential. Cold wet hands do not make for an happy skiing day...but then nor do warm sweaty hands either
There will always be those who will tell you that the above stuff is cheaper for a reason and that reason is that it is not as good as the more expensive stuff.You then have to define "as good" and what that means. It may not be as stylish, if that is important to you then pay the extra. It may not be as waterproof etc, but how waterproof do you need it to be? Again if you want the most technological stuff then you can get it (and pay for it)
Another option , used by some, is get some cheap stuff, see how you get on with it (most likely you will survive) and look to get the really expensive kit when it is half price or less in the sales
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bertie bassett, size 10 would make for an unusual gentleman 
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Locky12, welcome to Snowheads.  As someone who spent 4 seasons skiing in a £50 Trespass jacket from T K Maxx and retired it because I was bored, not because it was broke (I always washed it carefully in Techwash) I'd strongly agree with the above. There are some Snowheads who do a lot of climbing, hiking up impressive Alps before leaping over cliffs on the way down, but most of us use lifts, ski mostly on nicely prepared pistes and are not reluctant to stop for a hot something-or-other if it gets really horrible. The former need really high spec quality gear, the latter don't (though there are also many who just spend a week or so each year poncing around on lift-served slopes in Nothing But the Best and know more about the different labels than they do about the different turn shapes ).
The key thing to remember is that it can be frighteningly cold, or horribly wet if it rains, or just kind of mild and inoffensive. Or even sunny and positively warm. And you can't tell before you go (at present forecasts for Christmas are flopping around between the extremes). So the answer is to have lots of layers. And a backpack for spare layers etc and stuff the kids jettison but can't carry .
You'll have a fantastic time, come back exhausted but hooked for life (my son in law did, after his first trip, one of a series - to Italy on a coach!).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Locky12,
You don't really need a waterproof jacket, unless you're actually skiing in the rain. You aren't, obviously, so what you need is just something that keeps you dry while you seek shelter from the sudden shower. Since showers are very rare, you really don't care about a waterproof jacket. Problem is, they are highly fashionable at the moment, so you won't find a jacket that isn't at least highly water resistant... so you end up soaking in your own sweat anyway. Which is why you need a merino wool base layer. Waterproof trousers can be very good, however, because your ski lift seat may be completely wet. There may even be a puddle. Besides, you don't sweat as much from your lower body.
I'm serious... Waterproofness is the most overvalued feature of a skiing jacket. It's highly fashionable at the moment, but will just make you soaked.
The merino wool base layer is your best bet. It will keep fresh for a whole week without washing. If you have access to a balcony, you can hang it out to air it, but even that isn't completely necessary. A synthetic base layer, on the other hand, will last for two days or less before it starts to smell. So, you'll need one set of merinos or at least three sets of synthetics. Merino feels better, smells better and will feel warm and dry, even when soaked. Synthetics will get cold when wet. Everything gets wet, no matter what they say. The difference is in how wet and how cold it gets. Although cotton is lovely otherwise, it gets completely soaked. I don't know much about bamboo, but my bamboo underpants feel rather wet after some exercise, so I don't trust bamboo. Don't take my word for it, though. Oh, did I mention the benefits of merino wool?
People are right in telling you that brand doesn't really matter. You'll end up paying through the nose for something that's really no better than the less-known brands. A popular brand can be 3-4 times the price. You seem to be something of a beginner, so don't spend good money until you know what features you really like and need in a garment.
Skiing socks are nice, but quite expensive. Thin wool socks should be good enough.
Any warm snow boots will carry you through the apre-ski. The gloves need to be quick to dry, so any with detachable linings will be nice. Again, quick to dry is more important than waterproofness. Wool will keep you warm, even when wet. If you're going to pay premium price, Hestra is the brand to get.
Hope this helps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm 5ft 2in and find Dare2Be salopettes are a better length than most, and don't cost a fortune. Available online/TK Maxx/Go Outdoors and probably loads more places.
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| Quote: |
You aren't, obviously
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Aren't skiing in the rain? Well, hopefully not, but it happens and if you're on a school trip and with a group, you can't wimp out. And in heavy snow they get wet too - or at least, mine does, though I don't. Plus, it's much more useful for general wear in this country - walking etc - if it's waterproof. But yes, breathable as well. My £50 Trespass was both.
Yes, a neck buff thing is a "must".
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Think incontinence pants might helpSkiingDad,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just as long as Locky12 has the foresight to ignore such twaddle which I'm sure she has, having posted sensible questions.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| SkiingDad wrote: |
I'm serious... Waterproofness is the most overvalued feature of a skiing jacket. It's highly fashionable at the moment, but will just make you soaked.
The merino wool base layer is your best bet. It will keep fresh for a whole week without washing. If you have access to a balcony, you can hang it out to air it, but even that isn't completely necessary. A synthetic base layer, on the other hand, will last for two days or less before it starts to smell. So, you'll need one set of merinos or at least three sets of synthetics. Merino feels better, smells better and will feel warm and dry, even when soaked. Synthetics will get cold when wet. Everything gets wet, no matter what they say. The difference is in how wet and how cold it gets. Although cotton is lovely otherwise, it gets completely soaked. I don't know much about bamboo, but my bamboo underpants feel rather wet after some exercise, so I don't trust bamboo. Don't take my word for it, though. |
Complete and utter tosh. Merino is very popular at present, but I think it's oversold. By far the best baselayer I have are polypropylene longjohns from The North Face: thin and soft as silk (although some polyprop can feel very plastic, I'm told), dead warm, absorbs virtually nothing. My best baselayer tops are both polyethylene, the best one from Field and Trek with silver incorporated in the weave which outperforms my merino tops in every possible respect (lighter, less sweaty, less smelly), and to say they don't feel dry when wet is just wrong. Neither of these are particularly cheap though (that F&T top was about £32 IIRC, and the longjohns a bit more) and because of the ubiquitous merino fashion they are less available than previously. Yes merino is better than cotton, and some of the cheaper man-mades can get very smelly, but that post is just cobblers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Goggles? Go Army... grab a pair of ESS V12 off eBay for pennies. Interchangeable lenses (dark, yellow and clear) adjustable ventilation, self adjusting strap for helmet or no. Very very comfortable. OK, not what you want if you're after a label, but very very good on the mountain. They are quite slim, but I prefer that to pairs that seem to include my whole forehead 
And of course they're squaddie-proof. they'll stand you sitting on them, standing on them, or making a brew with them! And, should it come to being caught in a blast, they offer ballistic protection...
Tapstick
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bought a £20 jaket and salopettes from Aldi years ago, binned the salopettes because they were too warm, but the jacket kept me warm and dry through the worst of cold or wet weather.
A lot depends upon the individual, I wear light coloured ski clothes that reflect the heat of the sun to keep me cool when the sun comes out, I have dark coloured ski boots and gloves as feet and hands are rarely too warm.
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Wow! It seems I have offended some people's deeply held religious beliefs. That's actually the only reason I can think of why I get such a vicious response. It would be nice if you would explain why you disagree with me, rather than just ridiculing me. Of course, if skiing in the pouring rain is your preference, then I can't argue with that.
Lou, I'm close to fourty years of age and have been skiing for thirty, so I'm hardly a beginner. I don't know how that compares to your experience, but I can count the times I've wished for a more waterproof jacket on the fingers of one hand. Besides, I live in a country that doesn't completely shut down because of a few centimetres of snow, so I don't think you have the right or the experience to question my opinions so flippantly.
Seriously, people... I can understand you disagreeing with me, but why are you so incredibly aggressive? I don't think I said anything to hurt anyone.
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Aldi have ski gear on sale from 27th December(day after I go away, as usual). Choice of merino or synthetic base layers. Hard and soft shell jackets and salopettes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The cool kids on the slopes this season are wearing one piece suits. The more tasteless the better. Look for combinations of red, orange and pink, preferably two tone and C&A Rodeo - that's the label to have.
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SkiingDad, maybe because you were so adamant - that "you aren't, obviously (skiing in the rain)". If you make such a categorical statement you can expect people to have a bit of an argument. And if you then stoke the flames by saying
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if skiing in the pouring rain is your preference, then I can't argue with that.
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Most of us who ski a lot have sometimes skied in the rain. Maybe you've just been lucky. You can end up skiing in the rain now and then, maybe because it came on rather suddenly, maybe because it was a rotten week of weather and we weren't going to just sit in the chalet the whole time, maybe because we were committed to ski with a group - as a mate, an instructor, a teacher, etc etc. I've also got very wet jackets (on the outside) skiing in the snow sometimes, if it's rather wet snow, carrying skis on the shoulder, etc etc etc. and been grateful for waterproofness.
There are such a lot of very good jackets on the market - waterproof and breathable, at a reasonable price, that you really don't need to go without. As I said, mine cost £50. And I've never had wet underpants or base layers, either.
Still, nothing like a ski forum to get men arguing about their vests, eh?  I have both merino and artificial fibre base layers and have no problem with either. Some people are just plain hard to please.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| SkiingDad wrote: |
Wow! It seems I have offended some people's deeply held religious beliefs. That's actually the only reason I can think of why I get such a vicious response. It would be nice if you would explain why you disagree with me, rather than just ridiculing me. Of course, if skiing in the pouring rain is your preference, then I can't argue with that.
Lou, I'm close to fourty years of age and have been skiing for thirty, so I'm hardly a beginner. I don't know how that compares to your experience, but I can count the times I've wished for a more waterproof jacket on the fingers of one hand. Besides, I live in a country that doesn't completely shut down because of a few centimetres of snow, so I don't think you have the right or the experience to question my opinions so flippantly.
Seriously, people... I can understand you disagreeing with me, but why are you so incredibly aggressive? I don't think I said anything to hurt anyone. |
I'm close to forty years of age myself, albeit the wrong side, and I find it incredible that you have got so far (in 30 years of skiing) without getting wet on the mountains. I have been skiing for considerably less time than you (although I don't rush for the nearest umbrella when it snows or rains) and can recall many evenings spent hanging up wet gear to dry for the next day. And that goes for any outdoor activity in the mountains.
Where you live and how the country deals with snow is of no consequence to a discussion about waterproof ski jackets.
I haven't skied for thirty years, that's for sure, but I have enough common sense not to post utter codswalllop.
ps you may be pleasantly surprised if you combine waterproof with breathable, no need to spend a fortune.
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SkiingDad
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unless you're actually skiing in the rain. You aren't, obviously, so what you need is just something that keeps you dry while you seek shelter from the sudden shower. Since showers are very rare, you really don't care about a waterproof jacket.
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not skied a lot in Scotland then?
I dont disagree with the general thrust of your comment that a lot of kit is a lot more waterproof than the bulk of the skiing population will ever need.....but I wouldnt ditch waterproof entirely just in case I wanted to ski in Scotland or walk round Whistler village. On both occasions waterproof very often comes in very handy.
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You know it makes sense.
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SkiingDad, I was a a bit surprised by the aggression in the response you got, because I think you are more or less right. Waterproofness is nice to have but far from essential. Most important is to keep the snow out (ie it doesn't soak in to the jacket but brushes off) and keeping the wind out. After all, softshells are popular at the moment, and they are not waterproof.
Actually, when I worked in a ski shop many years ago we were taught that one of the most important factors in ski jacket design was the 'slippyness' of the fabric. Smooth shiny material was a no no because of the danger of accelerating off down the hill while laid flat on your back. This never seems to get mentioned any more though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Spud9 wrote: |
| SkiingDad, I was a a bit surprised by the aggression in the response you got |
me too...quite suprising.
| Spud9 wrote: |
SkiingDad,
Actually, when I worked in a ski shop many years ago we were taught that one of the most important factors in ski jacket design was the 'slippyness' of the fabric. Smooth shiny material was a no no because of the danger of accelerating off down the hill while laid flat on your back. This never seems to get mentioned any more though. |
errr...that's how i get down black runs...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| SkiingDad wrote: |
I'm serious... Waterproofness is the most overvalued feature of a skiing jacket. It's highly fashionable at the moment, but will just make you soaked.
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No it won't.
Waterproofness without breathability might get you soaked with your own sweat, but it is the breathability or otherwise that determines that, not the waterproofness or otherwise.
And it isn't about whether you are going to ski in rain or not. Snow on your jacket will melt - and you WILL get snow on it when you fall, even if it isn't snowing. And if your jacket is not decently water resistant, that melting snow will soak in and is likely to result in you becoming excessively cold.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| wrote: |
There are such a lot of very good jackets on the market - waterproof and breathable, at a reasonable price, that you really don't need to go without. As I said, mine cost £50. And I've never had wet underpants or base layers, either.
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I think what SkiingDad meant was that the stuff rated above a few thousand mm in 'waterproofness' is overkill for the typical 1 week a year holiday skier.
One online ski retailer had this to say
A "mm/24 hours" rating refers to the amount of rainfall a fabric can withstand in a single day. Thus a 10,000 mm waterproof rating means the garment can withstand over 32 feet (10,000 mm) of rainfall in a single day without letting moisture in.
By comparison one www-site listed the annual rainfall of the Amazon rainforest as only 9 feet in one year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've also got to say I've never had a jacket with a powder skirt, pit zips or lift pass holder til the one I've got this year and never felt the lack of it. I do think you need something waterproof though, I don't think I've ever actually skied in rain, but very slushy snow which melted immediately and I got very wet skiing it.
I wash all my base layers in the shower at night so only had one of everything for the first few years I went skiing.
I don't think I see it above but would recommend a buff over a scarf.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lou, I certainly don't run for cover when it snows. I don't need to... Snow is easily brushed off. Rain is a bit different and I must admit I don't like being soaked by the rain. However, whenever the weather allows for skiing, rain is rare. No, I haven't skied in Scotland, so perhaps that's what setting us apart. In any case, I have been hanging up wet to gear to dry far more often than I care to remember. This December, I've been hanging up my wet, waterproof and "breathable" gear to dry - not after skiing, sadly, but after shoveling snow off the driveway - between ten to fifteen times. Not once has my gear been wet from the outside, only from the inside. I'd say shoveling snow is slightly more intense physically than skiing, but they're certainly comparable. Since before I could walk, I've played, sat, crawled, kneeled and laid down in snow. And that is why my location is relevant to my opinion of ski jackets! I have experience not just from skiing, but from living in a snowy climate for my entire life. So I think I'm competent and entitled to having an opinion about how to dress for physical activities in snow. What's more, just because my experience is different from yours doesn't make my opinion codswallop. Realising that would've proven you have common sense. Now you're still being flippant and assuming that I'm out to offend someone or making stuff up as I write.
For the record, my current ski outfit is a gore tex windstopper shell, which I'm told should be fairly breathable. None the less, I still need to wipe off the sweat from the inside of the jacket. I'm not impressed. The only time I've been satisfied with gore tex was in the summer while sailing in the pouring rain.
malcolm1, Spud9, thanks for the support. I knew from previous threads that many people feel that waterproofness isn't the most important feature. That's why the response really surprised me. I completely agree that "not soaking in moisture" is most important.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I think what SkiingDad meant was that the stuff rated above a few thousand mm in 'waterproofness' is overkill for the typical 1 week a year holiday skier.
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PisteHead, to a degree, yes. According to the numbers, many of the garments will actually be more breathable the more waterproof they are. I'm somewhat sceptical, but I haven't done any research into the matter. However, since most garments will be made out of synthetics anyway, they won't be absorbing moisture to any significant degree. I think it's more important that noone should be put off buying a comfortable garment just because it isn't waterproof. ...or tricked into thinking that a certain jacket is a must-have because it's gore tex/hyvent/event/whatever.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| PisteHead wrote: |
| wrote: |
There are such a lot of very good jackets on the market - waterproof and breathable, at a reasonable price, that you really don't need to go without. As I said, mine cost £50. And I've never had wet underpants or base layers, either.
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I think what SkiingDad meant was that the stuff rated above a few thousand mm in 'waterproofness' is overkill for the typical 1 week a year holiday skier.
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If that was what he meant, then that is what he should have said. He didn't say anything about "beyond a certain level" or anything similar.
If he had said that, then I imagine most of us would have agreed with him.
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| SkiingDad wrote: |
Locky12,
You don't really need a waterproof jacket, unless you're actually skiing in the rain. You aren't, obviously,.... |
Done it in St Anton. And Fernie.
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Spud9, said
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After all, softshells are popular at the moment, and they are not waterproof.
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Can't argue 'cause I don't know....although there are a lot of softshells advertised as waterproof.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't worry about waterproofness, it's all about the colour. If you don't look cool, go home. I'm 40 too. nah nah nah nah.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| PisteHead wrote: |
| wrote: |
There are such a lot of very good jackets on the market - waterproof and breathable, at a reasonable price, that you really don't need to go without. As I said, mine cost £50. And I've never had wet underpants or base layers, either.
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I think what SkiingDad meant was that the stuff rated above a few thousand mm in 'waterproofness' is overkill for the typical 1 week a year holiday skier.
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If that was what he meant, then that is what he should have said. He didn't say anything about "beyond a certain level" or anything similar.
If he had said that, then I imagine most of us would have agreed with him. |
Exactly! However because SkiingDad opened his first post (to a beginner looking for sensible advice) with "you don't really need a waterproof jacket" I replied with some flippancy (aggression? I think not, you haven't been around snowHeads much have you ).
Maybe you have just been lucky in your thirty skiing years but I have certainly felt the need for a waterproof (basic, only my latest ski jacket has been Gore-tex though I have owned a Gore-tex jacket, which I use for walking, for 12 years) jacket, and that's without ever skiing in Scotland. Of course snow can be brushed off, but have you honestly never been on a mountain in a blizzard? Fine if you can shelter but that's often not possible.
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FAQ
What a load of bo11ocks
