 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi folks
We are going on our family ski trip on Boxing Day to Val Despair after having done 3 years at the 3V's.
For those who know both well - how does the skiing compare?
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Peter Leuzzi, i love espace killy. i've had three trips there and have found different things to do everytime. some would say tignes is soul-less/ugly/etc. but i love it regardless, as the places i've stayed at and people i've met have been friendly and fun. that said, i know the tignes part of it better than i do the val d'isere part  .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sherlock235, I've been a few times and enjoyed it too but can't really remember it. How does the skiing compare to the 3V's, do you know?
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i've only been to the 3v once for a long weekend, so i don't know it well at all. but i did enjoy the bits i did get to know. though not as much as i enjoy espace killy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've been to both quite a lot.
Both are great. Seriously.
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Much the same, 3V a bit bigger, both great! Possibly a bit more tree level skiing in the 3V, but Val D'Isere is perhaps the nicest place to stay out of all of the villages in the two sets of resorts. Maybe 3V is better for beginners, but for intermediates and advanced it's too close to call.
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Espace Killy for me I think the skiing is far better and to stand in Val Claret and look around that bowl is truely awesome 
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I'd have said the 3V was the best place in the world for piste cruising but I prefer the Espace Killy for the Off piste. The pistes are still amazing and the variety of the ski area is immense
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Peter Leuzzi, the very fact that both areas are so highly regarded is not down to marketing budget alone. That said, both pale in insignificance when compared to, say, La Rosiere.....
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Peter Leuzzi, I wonder why you said you were going to "Val Despair" and I worry that you have already pre judged your holiday. Having skied in both the Three Valleys and the Espace Killy I consider both to be wonderful. Recent years I have stayed mostly in Val d'Isere but that is because of the people I ski with, not because of the skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Peter Leuzzi
I don't think a serious or keen skier/boarder could have a bad holiday in either - both have got the lot in terms of piste and off piste. You'll love Espace Killy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks folks for all your comments.
How tough is the skiing? We enjoyed 3V due to the fact we could take the kids anywhere (within reason) knowing there was a good blue/easier red route around. I have heard its tougher here and the runs home are icy/steep.
What do you say?
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Peter Leuzzi, home runs to Val d'Isere (the main part of the resort) are steep and often icy. There are plenty of easy pistes, but the main routes into the village are a decent black (the Face) or a steep red (Solaise).
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, thanks Rob. Is there no easy route in? If not, no dubt a bubble in is possible?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Peter Leuzzi, not down to Val d'Isere village, although there are easier options to La Daille (the satellite part of Val D'Isere) but that is a bus ride back into town. There are easy options to download back to the village: the Solaise chairlift for returning from the Solaise sector, and the Olympic gondola for returning from the Bellevarde sector.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Peter Leuzzi, there are lift options down throughout Val d'Isere. Many people prefer them to the ski down. There is a green piste (Verte) down to La Dialle, but I have heard and read comments that the bottom section of this run should have a higher grade. The other pistes down are often icy and steep in places.
To La Dialle there are bubbles (Dialle) down the bottom third of the mountain and a funicular (Funival) down from the top of Belvarde.
To central Val d'Isere there are big bubbles (L'Olympique) down from the top of Belvarde.
(Top stations of funicular and gondola are only 100m apart, maybe less, and at the same height.)
To central Val d'Isere there is a chair (Solaise Express) down from Solaise.
To Le Fornet there is a cable car (Foret) down.
On returning from Tignes via Toviere you can be too low for easy access to the Dialle bubbles, but there is a button lift (Semanmille) or a chair (Mont Blanc) that will give you the height. Using a second chair (Marmottes) takes you to the top of Belvarde.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Peter Leuzzi, unless I've missed it, no-one has mentioned the easy alternative to Face to get into ValD from the top of Belvarde. Ski away from Face down towards the small char lift you can see (Fontaine Froide), go past the bottom of it and follow the blue round to your left. It goes into a medium sized natural gully called Santons (easy for everyone and can be good fun, although a bit congested towards the end of the day), then it opens up to a steep-ish, but wide and short, bit which you schusse from as high as you dare to get speed for the flat bit through the smart chalets and onto the centre of ValD with the Solaise Express on your right and the Olympique cable to your left and about a million deck chairs in front of you, into which you should crumple while waiting for your mates to bring you a beer and crepe (It's a lot easier than it sounds, it's just one track in essence).
From the Solaise side tis true there's only red Piste M down, but take it easy and most blue/red runners can mange it. Depending on where in ValD you're staying there is the option of Pist L down from Solaise to Le Laisinet and a boring traverse round, but you've got a bit of a walk from there to central ValD.
If you've done 3V 3 times then no question, go to ESK. Just as much "travel" skiing and a slightly different vibe, you'll love it.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 15-10-10 14:14; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dr John, Santons can get hideous. Icy gun barrel, big bumps on the steeps, than a flat walk if you're not bold enough to take some speed into the flats. One of my least favourite runs, and really not good for timid intermediates (much like the M down Solaise).
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rob@rar, fair enough. I've seen it a bit bumpy but never what I'd describe as hideous, must have been lucky.
In that case I'd have a couple of (the worlds most expensive) beers at folie douce while watching the nutters, then down to La Daille for a couple of quiet beers at the small bar across the river while contemplating the bus back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with rob@rar, Santons is not great. I was in Tignes for all of March this year and Santons was shut for at least a week, possibly more, as it was in poor condition and then had a mini avalnche all over it. The flat bit at th end is really long, even with a good clear run at it the amount of poling you have to do is just awful, and any boarders would have a long way to walk.
Much easier to just get the main gondola down from the top to the bottom of Face. Although I think Face is a lovely run (but admittedly it does get very choppy and busy at the end of the day).
The runs into Val d'Isere were, for me, the worst part of the resort. The red run on the other side (coming down next to the women's olympic black) got mogulled to high heaven every day, and with it being so narrow and packed at the end of the day it was a bit of a death trap. That said, the skiing up above these runs is just phenomenal, and its easy enough to get up and down in a gondola thereby missing them out.
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If getting back down to VD is a problem why not stay in Tignes? Much of the skiing is shared and no problem getting back to the resort for all. I know it's ugly, but so am I, and it has never complained about me being there!
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| Dr John wrote: |
| In that case I'd have a couple of (the worlds most expensive) beers at folie douce while watching the nutters, then down to La Daille for a couple of quiet beers at the small bar across the river while contemplating the bus back. |
A perfect end to the day!
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Peter Leuzzi, if anyone in your party snowboards, they'll not be wanting to do santons at any point if they can avoid it. way too much skating involved. and there are uphill bits too. yuckity, yuckity, yuck. oh and it's filled with crazy people.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, the amount of times I've lurched back to ValD in the dark (and on one famous occasion a taxi to Tignes after missing the last Tommeuses, late enough to miss dinner as well) is shameful...
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| Dav wrote: |
| The runs into Val d'Isere were, for me, the worst part of the resort. |
Agreed. That's the only reason I don't think that Val d'Isere is a good choice for groups which include nervous or inexperienced intermediates.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, I have been a nervous and inexperienced intermediate (and accompanied them) on the runs back into VdIsere. It may be traumatic/thrilling, but you can't go through life in cotton wool. The plus points to VdIsere easily make up for a bit of trauma on the piste home. Obviously, if you fail to pass muster and suffer serious injury you'll have a different view...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Santons is often closed, so do not rely on being able to use it, specially after a snowfall. As you ski down Santons, look up to your left. Those slopes are steep and fairly smooth. There is little to stop the snow from sliding (avalanching) onto the piste below. As you look up to the left, also notice all the gasex equipment.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Dav wrote: |
| The runs into Val d'Isere were, for me, the worst part of the resort. |
Agreed. That's the only reason I don't think that Val d'Isere is a good choice for groups which include nervous or inexperienced intermediates. |
Yup. Must admit I do like Val d'Isere (though not been there for a few years now) but the above is very fair comment.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 15-10-10 15:23; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| crosbie wrote: |
| rob@rar, I have been a nervous and inexperienced intermediate (and accompanied them) on the runs back into VdIsere. It may be traumatic/thrilling, but you can't go through life in cotton wool. |
Indeed not, but for mixed ability groups who don't want to impose the "indignity" of some of the party members having to download there are equally good options elsewhere. In fact you don't even need to avoid Espace Killy if you'd like to ski there as Tignes has easier "last run home" options. I've been to Val d'Isere with a couple of large groups including some two and three-week skiers whose holiday was unnecessarily spoiled, IMO, by the difficulty of the runs in to the village.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, agree that Tignes is the better base for intermediates. Still have to negotiate one or both of the tricky approached to ValD on a ESK tour, but they are both easier to tackle when they're not the last run home.
ValD does beat the impact pants off Tignes for apres and atmosphere though, swings and roundabouts, innit.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dr John wrote: |
| ValD does beat the impact pants off Tignes for apres and atmosphere though, swings and roundabouts, innit. |
Yes, I've always enjoyed the atmosphere in the village, moreso than Tignes. Can't have everything I suppose...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, trouble is, those runs can vary from "Bobsleigh run where nervous intermediates will be guaranteed to provide 'entertainment' and revenue to 'copter pilots" in icy conditions to "Bouncy castle of snow fluff - fun for all the family!" in good conditions. And snow conditions aren't exactly that predictable... It's a shame to rule VdIsere out because of the nightmare it might be.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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crosbie, not ruling it out, just think there are better options for groups which include early or nervous intermediates. It's only because of the downloading issue - if people don't have a problem with downloading then it's a great resort for mixed ability groups.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
That's the only reason I don't think that Val d'Isere is a good choice for groups which include nervous or inexperienced intermediates
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It's not good for groups which include people who refuse to download in a gondola and make anyone who does feel foolish. For people with a more mature attitude to it all, there's loads of super skiing. I've had some great days skiing there, and always downloaded in a gondola except for that "green" to La Daille one time. It was crowded with people who were struggling, the snow condition was icy, and the only safe way to ski it was very slowly. It wasn't much fun, really. Then wait for a bus. Then take the bus...... 
There are a number of ski resorts where everyone goes up, and back down, in lifts. I don't really know why the notion of doing so causes such a big problem to some people in Val D'Isere. Why do folk subject the more timorous or inexperienced members of their families or groups to some of those runs? There are so many better ones.
I suppose one reason I don't much like Val D'Isere is the big gob factor; the guys in the bars who insist on making sure everyone within 30 metres knows they came back down Face.
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pam w, these days people probably boast about not doing any skiing between the Folie Douce ski 'disco' and the last run down La Daille home (tanked up with 3 litres).
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Val disere is great, it will surely make you a better skier at the end of the week. and is a much better base (village) than Tignes to stay in.
All runs to the village except the 2 blacks ( Face & Charvet) are easily doable by intermediate skiers. The 2 blacks are a different matter as at the end of the day each time ive skied them they have had moguls you dissapere behind  so deffo not for scaredy cats.
Dont let the talk of hard runs put you off, Val is top notch with Solaise and Val's glacier area being my fave. Yes there are blues that may be reds, and reds that may be blacks in other ski resorts but Val will deffo improve a int. skier whilst they are there, but all the last runs home can be avoided and be taken down via gondola or lift etc. Dont rely on Santons being the home run as someelse has said after snowfall it regulary gets closed, but there is no shame in taking a gondolla back if you do not feel up to the red or black runs. Val is a int and above resort and is deffo not for total noobs as it would probably put them off for good. And would totaly overwhelm them. Most int. will love it and will improve greatly from a week in Tignes and Val.
Got my hols this yr booked and sorted, St Anton in jan, Scotland for a long weekend in Feb, then back to Val disere in march/April cant wait...............bring on the snow
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Thanks again everyone. I think the grown-ups in our group will cope without too much bother. We have encountered moguls the size of mini's on steroids in the 3V on the way home; slush like treacle and free flowing M25-esque traffic. Its the kids I worry about. Having said that, I have neevr been too proud to climb on a bubble down saving legs, sanity etc
Incidentally
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Santons (easy for everyone and can be good fun, although a bit congested towards the end of the day), then it opens up to a steep-ish, but wide and short, bit which you schusse from as high as you dare to get speed for the flat bit through the smart chalets and onto the centre of ValD with the Solaise Express on your right and the Olympique cable to your left and about a million deck chairs in front of you, into which you should crumple while waiting for your mates to bring you a beer
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many moons ago I did that when staying in Tignes. My mate and I sat with a beer and watched person after person trying to shusse down and around the bend taking as tight a corner as possible. Trouble was that corner was now so heavily trafficked that it had formed a bit of a woop-de-doo and 8/10 skiers tumbled sometimes on the bump, sometimes on someone else. Fortunately no-one hurt but quite hilarious and it had a lot of people sitting on those deckchairs thinking they were watching a Harry Hill blooper show live.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
it had a lot of people sitting on those deckchairs thinking they were watching a Harry Hill blooper show live.
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Peter Leuzzi,  Similarly, I've sometimes quite enjoyed the carnage on the Face, coming down the gondola (the olympic one? can't remember). I don't remember wishing I'd given it a go.
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They are both about the same.
Lots of easy, mid and tough stuff.
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