 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I had read somewhere (possibly a newspaper column) that you should inform your insurers, however I really can't see that putting different tyres on can be classed as a modification. Do I have to inform them when I change my tyres normally from Michelin to Pirelli?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi, funny you should mention this. I invested in winter tyres on Sunday and re-insured my car today for another year. I told the insurance firm about my new tyres and he said it was not a problem, he didnt need to know and that the modifications they refer to would only kick in, if I had changed the wheels to a lower profile etc. Sounds to me like the bloke from the AA was talking out of his rear end....
and for the record......... oh wow. The tyres have made an enormous difference (and I live in Surrey!) 
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| Fruity wrote: |
| Sounds to me like the bloke from the AA was talking out of his rear end.... |
A number of Snowheads have had insurance declined or increased, IIRC by £50, for fitting winter tyres. It seems that fitting narrower rims (better for snow tyres) is a particular problem. I think it all depends who you talk to.
I think it's good that the AA is raising the issue publicly. That way, all insurers may start to understand what winter tyres are and how they might actually save them money.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Insurance companies do understand but most people wrongley think they should put tyres the size of rubber bands on their car.Fit the same size as your normal tyres.If you also want to fit chains, check with the car manufacturer what the maximum size is then fit wheels and tyres to suit
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smifffymoto, my brother-in-law is trying to get some winter tyres. They do not exist in the size he needs for his alloy wheels. He wants some steel ones intead. The equivalent tyres are easy to get, but they can't get the steel rims.
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What size ?
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yep i just swap the rubber each year but maintain the normal size. Now, having said that, the manual does actually specify the actual oem size for winters, for which you would have expected that the insurer to fully support and endorse.
Basically a bunch of idiots who will charge for anything and any which way they can, regardless of whether its actually in the interest of safety or not 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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smifffymoto, no idea sorry, but I know he's had a local tyre firm, Mazda Uk, and our neighbour trying to sort it out for him this week, for a Mazda 5 sport.. Crap in snow as it wieghs about the same as a double decker bus. He had a nice shiny set of rims and tyres delivered last week to the spec given to him by Mazda. They didn't fit. Our neighbour can get the tyres, but hasn't found the rims yet.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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be careful with sizing and in particular not just sizing but speed rating (the "H" bit or whatever at the end of the numbers) on your tyre can make a difference for the insurers, even if you come down a rating 
masked, stripey jumpered, robbin baa stardoes
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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^^ yep which is another load of rubbish in reality, because the H for example is good for in excess of 120mph - lets face it, you can't even do that legally and let alone how insane you'd need to be to consider doing it in freshies on the road. If they were being sensible they'd do it on the load rating to ensure you couldnt jeopardise safety with an overloaded tyre...
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I'd imagine that what insurance companies are currently interested in is the window of opportunity to charge extra. I suspect most of the underwriters will know winter tyres are safer and will significantly reduce claims. However, in line with the UK population most of the front office staff won't know much about them and in most but not all companies will probably not have had much guidance (especially not sensible guidance), so they'll just be allowed to regard any change as a chargeable modification, but this will only last as long as the companies think they can get away with it.
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You know it makes sense.
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They are only safer when conditions are bad. Using undersized rims and lower speed rated tyres isn't going to make it safer when the sun is shining, which is most of the time. I imagine they offer less grip on dry roads as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| tiffin wrote: |
They are only safer when conditions are bad.
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Wrong.
they are safer whenever the temperature is below 7 degrees. Which is most of the rush hour time for most of the winter, plus quite a lot of the rest of the time.
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Using undersized rims and lower speed rated tyres isn't going to make it safer when the sun is shining, which is most of the time.
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Not in the UK it isn't, particularly in Winter. But using undersized rims and lower rated tyres isn't a good idea generally anyhow, unless that is what is specified by the manufacturer.
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I imagine they offer less grip on dry roads as well. |
You imagine wrong.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Using that logic they should be used all year. And saying the deep treaded tires offer more grip in the dry isn't right either
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not saying they are not safe. Just that they are less safe most of the time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I went for the same sized tyres in all season but with the snowflake symbol (Nokian WRG2s). V rating so good for 150mph... no need to tell insurance company as so difference in size or rating. Problem solved.
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Most of the problem is caused by the software that insurance co desk jockeys use... any change comes under 'Alloy modification' so if an increase is quoted ask to speak to a manger, progress upwards and eventually you should get the quoted increase cancelled.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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in my opininion anything with an open block tread pattern is best for all year round driving displaces the water better when it rains any moth of the year allow you to grip in the snow and with a good quility tyre allows execlent grip in the summer we hav ran dunlop 2020's on a vw sharan for the last 7 years apart from the odd ocation had continental on going around the same corner no matter what the conditions the continental would loose a foot around the corner put the dunlop 2020 on car is apsolutly rock solid can tighten up and have never been stuck in it with those tyres on anything else a little damp grass and it sits and spins so if anyone says a summer tyre is best be honist with yourselves as where i am the roads are wet for more then half the days in the year and if there not wet there coverd in mud from tractors
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| tiffin wrote: |
| I'm not saying they are not safe. Just that they are less safe most of the time. |
You have misunderstood why and how winter tyre works. They are made of a different rubber compound that makes them "stickier" for want of a better word. In the dry they are not more dangerous than normal tyres. They will, however, wear more quickly, and if you were doing 120mph hard cornering you might have issues, but at the speeds we travel at on the road and UK conditions for more than 6 months of the year, they do make a lot of sense.
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| tiffin wrote: |
| Using that logic they should be used all year. And saying the deep treaded tires offer more grip in the dry isn't right either |
If you are going to use one type of tyre all year round, then YES, it is better touse a winter tyre.
And you are quite simply WRONG about their use in the dry.
Unless, of course, you can point to research done by some reasonable body that counteracts all the research done by independent tyre experts?
Once the temperature is below 7 degrees C, winter tyres give better grip than summer tyres in ALL conditions. And that is not just because of the different tread pattern, but more because of the different compound, which doesn't harden up as much at low temperatures.
The tread pattern gives additional help beyond that when there is snow or slush, or mud around.
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| tiffin wrote: |
| I'm not saying they are not safe. Just that they are less safe most of the time. |
And you are wrong in saying that.
Below 7 degrees, they are more safe ALL of the time.
Above that temperature, there is a significant overlap, where there is little difference (in decent conditions), before you finally do reach a point where summer tyres give better grip. I'm not quite sure what point that is reached, but it is well into double figures.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
Above that temperature, there is a significant overlap, where there is little difference (in decent conditions), before you finally do reach a point where summer tyres give better grip. I'm not quite sure what point that is reached, but it is well into double figures. |
I understand and agree with your points. However, my point is and maybe i expressed it badly, if we were all encouraged to use winter tires then I still feel that the majority of road miles would be undertaken in condition better suibted to summer tires. A lot of miles are eaten up trundling along dry warm motorways.
I admit I dont have the figures though.
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I thought snow tyre worked by having lots of micro grooves that allowed the slippy interface layer of water that is caused when you put pressured on snow or ice to dissipate. It is the same interface layer that makes ice states an skis slide.
At least that was what I understood when I worked in BMWs R&D place. However, that was a long time ago, so the physics may have changed.  BMWs are so crappy in the snow that I may well have been deluded by well meaning but unknowingly wrong professors.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Does tiffin, work for an insurance company by any chance???
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not at all, tbh I have very little interest in the subject itself. It's just that certain subjects on this forum are accepted without question. I just like to question.
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At least one insurance company has a sensible attitude to fitting winter tyres:
http://www.churchill.com/motor/winter-tyres.htm
Oh Yes! 
Incidentally I'm not insured with Churchill, but came across that link elsewhere.
Also as it happens I fitted winter tyres (for the first time ever) to my car 2 weeks ago and yesterday drove into Nottinghamshire countryside and then up to Leeds and back. Did quite a few miles on totally snow covered back roads and as others have said the improvement in grip, handling and braking is huge. There were places I'd have been stuck if I were on the summer tyres.
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You know it makes sense.
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Neither Direct Line nor Liverpool Victoria have any problem with you fitting winter tyres - I asked them both before getting mine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I just contacted Privilege this morning to inform them about fitting Nokian WR G2`s to my Subaru Legacy; this was fine with them. I had taken them for granted this week in the snow and ice, going where and when I wanted, until I drove my Impreza today with summer tyres on.( Scary at times ,even with AWD) The £ 354 the winter tyres cost is the best money that I have ever spent on a car, and I cannot wait to drive to the Alps in Feb. Buy them in Sept or Oct before the better priced ones sell out. I used Mytyres.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| gvj wrote: |
| Neither Direct Line nor Liverpool Victoria have any problem with you fitting winter tyres - I asked them both before getting mine. |
Direct Line and Churchill are the same company, so it isn't surprising they have a similar attitude.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| tiffin wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
Above that temperature, there is a significant overlap, where there is little difference (in decent conditions), before you finally do reach a point where summer tyres give better grip. I'm not quite sure what point that is reached, but it is well into double figures. |
I understand and agree with your points. However, my point is and maybe i expressed it badly, if we were all encouraged to use winter tires then I still feel that the majority of road miles would be undertaken in condition better suibted to summer tires. A lot of miles are eaten up trundling along dry warm motorways.
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Quite a lot are done on dry motorways, yes, but I think in winter those will still mainly be in the "neutral" area, where summer and winter tyres are pretty well equally good.
And a lot of people do the majority of their driving while commuting which is normally done at times of day when it tends to be colder.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Transport Minister Philip Hammond's misinformed statement in the House of Commons about the use of winter tyres in the UK in response to a very well informed question from MP Gisela Stuart has been slammed by motoring organisations, see this.
Whilst it is perhaps understandable that a politician will not be familiar with the finer points of tyre technology, his response to the MP's question on the order paper will have been generated by his officials in the Transport Ministry. The fact that the Transport Ministry itself doesn't appear to know the difference between (unstudded)winter tyres and studded snow tyres is even more disconcerting!
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Alastair Pink, glad that his dumb comments have been picked up by the likes of the AA. Wonder if he will issue a clarification?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Alastair Pink, glad that his dumb comments have been picked up by the likes of the AA. Wonder if he will issue a clarification? |
He should do, but I doubt he will.
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I already had Mr Hammond down as a bit of a twerp, this confirms it.
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What a twonk. Can we organise a letter writing campaign to inform him?
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phew, lucky we have a inister who knows his stuff and is surrounded by those able to provide him with a great brief too LOL what a total prat...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Featured on Radio 4's Money Box today. A lot of insurance companies are content with winter tyres at no extra cost - but there has been some confusion. The AA will be taking the matter up with the industry. Meantime, the advice is to check with your insurer..
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When used in the summer, winter tyres will have longer stopping distances, will corner at a lower ultimate speed before sliding and will make the car use more fuel.
They are simply brilliant in the winter, even on dry cold roads due to the soft sticky rubber compound, but using them all year round would prove very expensive and will provide less than optimal grip.
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FAQ
