 Poster: A snowHead
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So I'd just zazzed (reasonably legally) along the A12, and was dodging nippily (though legally) along my local country lanes in my little car on the way home tonight in the dark enjoying every moment of it as I usually do, when the thought hung there like a revelation in front of me. Why the hell don't I ski with the same attitude as I drive? I don't fear slinging my little car down a road at speed so why don't I ski with the same mind set? I think it has to be worth trying this year. Not 'ski 'em like you stole 'em', but 'ski 'em like I drive' 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The consequences of getting it wrong in a car are typically worse than the consequences of getting it wrong on skis. So what's holding you back? Are your driving skills better than your skiing skills?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, that's a very good question you asked yourself. Nipping around in your car is ineffably more dangerous than anything you're likely to do on a ski slope.
Some people feel "in control of the situation" when they're driving their cars. They are, of course, totally wrong  especially on the little local country lanes when you don't know what nitwit in a 4 x 4 is nipping towards you round the next bend.
Having said that I remember the pleasure of driving home after my first day learning to sail a dinghy. I did feel that I could make the car go wherever I wanted and - more important - stop wherever I wanted, which I'd certainly not mastered in the dinghy.
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Try skiing in a metal box.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Also if as many people skied every day as drove then I reckon there would be far more accidents.
That aside I think it's because you drive a lot more than you ski.
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| tiffin wrote: |
| Try skiing in a metal box. |
Hemel's not that bad 
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Megamum, in your car you feel safe (whether rightly or wrongly) but you feel safe and secure.
On skis if you feel unsafe.................... if you have the slightest knock it's on your body not on the bodywork of your car.
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There's often little correlation between people's perception of risk and the actual risk.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, Yes, I guess my driving skills are better than my skiing skills (I'm a member of the IAM too having passed my Advanced driving test), but I've always, always, driven with confidence and moderate speed, right from when I was a learner. Clearly speed doesn't bother me - I'll gallop a horse, happily ride a motorbike given half a chance, and did once have huge fun on a RIB fast boats course. marcellus, It's clearly not all to do with feeling safe in my metal box given those examples. I ought to ski with the same confidence - in fact its an astonishing thought process that I am going to deploy in January and see it makes a difference.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I guess my driving skills are better than my skiing skills |
Perhaps you ski more cautiously than you drive or ride because you don't yet have all the skiing skills you need to feel comfortable with going faster? Maybe as you improve your skills your confidence will increase proportionately?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Why the hell don't I ski with the same attitude as I drive? I don't fear slinging my little car down a road at speed so why don't I ski with the same mind set? |
I had the same thought a while back and put it down to Feedback.
At the time I had little or no idea what was happening under my ski's, yet when driving I could tell exactly what was going on, and adjust accordingly. Once I started to 'feel' what was happening to my ski's, if they were skidding, gripping etc, my progress was much much faster.
But knowing the roads helps a bit too
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, I guess that could be right, at the moment I know I have a speed ceiling when I ski (unless I'm being pushed in which case I can go faster, but I'm beyond comfortable - like trying to get one extra run in and being back to meet the kids ski school on time - BMF_Skier then looked at me and uttered the words 'see what you can do when you have to'). This year I'm def. going to work on more skills. N.B I am starting to feel a bit better now, so I'll have to re-book that session with you. However, I think my mindset could be just as important and I'm going to imagine myself driving as well and see if that helps.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| However, I think my mindset could be just as important and I'm going to imagine myself driving as well and see if that helps. |
Agree entirely, skills and mindset are both very important. For me I try to take my mind out of the equation as invariably it gets in the way of skiing fluidly. I like to ski with "a quiet mind" and just let my body get on with using the skills that it has acquired.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Maybe as you improve your skills your confidence will increase proportionately?
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That should certainly happen, but often there's a mismatch between skills and confidence, isn't there? I have recently bought a new bike and have ridden a fair bit over the last few weeks (not like a real cyclist, but I've done about 230 miles). My confidence has increased a lot more than my skills (I didn't cycle as a child and don't feel at all competent). I'm more confident simply because so far, and contrary to my initial fears, I have not been flattened by an articulated lorry. The objective risk of being a cyclist hasn't changed - I am just less bothered about it.
I am a very experienced but essentially defensive driver; I drive more slowly in many situations than lots of people would. I have never thought that car accidents happen to "other people" and I count myself lucky to have driven extensively on four continents for 46 years with only the most trivial mishaps (though maybe the black cow crossing a dark road in the middle of the night didn't think our encounter was trivial). I'm wondering whether I'd describe myself as "confident", driving and I'm not sure. I'm most definitely NOT confident that I'm in control and can keep myself safe - nor do I think I'm immune to lapses of concentration or judgement. It would worry me if anyone thought they were in control and could keep themselves safe; I'd rather not be surrounded by drivers who think they are immortal. Or skiers who think they are immortal, for that matter.
Mindset is certainly central to all this. My daughter in law did hurt her knee badly when she first skied some years ago and was very, very, shaky trying again for the first time last Christmas. She always had it in her mind that she has 3 kids to look after, 2 of them need driving to school, etc etc. And who would do all that if she did her ACL again? Her instructor - someone I have had several lessons with - told me her skills were actually very good given how little she'd skied, but that she was exceptionally lacking in confidence.
But she's a confident driver and most definitely doesn't go around wondering who would look after the family if she drove into a tractor on the country roads round her home in Somerset. But then she's mortally terrified of flying and - though she knows the statistics - she's much happier driving slightly too fast (in my judgement) on country roads than she is on motorways. .
There's no accounting for folk, is there? Of all the fears I have for my family, RTAs loom the largest.
Megamum. Try some music.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, You and your music If I could find a way of listening to it whilst still hearing as much of the 'slope' I might be tempted.
The flying thing is interesting. Before I had my family I enjoyed flying passionately. Once I had the kids there seemed to be something a bit more final about being 33000 ft up. I went through many years of being quite a reluctant flyer. Now it's developed into something I'm resigned to having to do, but I'm still always 100% glad to get back down again and yes, I also know the stats are on my side too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, the fears you experience while skiing are not irrational. They're a sign of intelligence. While the repercussions of an auto accident can be more severe, they are far less frequent. Sustaining ACL damage while driving is almost unheard of, but it's common in skiing. Head injuries, ligament damage, broken bones, and death are all real risks encountered in skiing, and are experienced at a much higher rate of frequency than during driving. Good sense helps us be aware of our ability thresholds, and tells us to back off at some proximity to it. It's a good thing. it lets the ski patrol have more time to free ski.
The answer is simple. Your comfort threshold will elevate as your skills grow. What seemed scary yesterday will seem tame tomorrow. Along the way, enjoy the journey. Your current comfort zone is what it is, individual to you. Don't allow the expectations and pressures coming from others affect you. Find your pleasure within your own threshold limits, there are plenty to be had there. New pleasures will become available to you in time, providing you with a new form of fun on skis. Enjoy that too, when it comes, but don't stress over the speed of it's arrival. For now, revel in the fun your current skill level supplies.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FastMan, that said, there's stuff I'd happily have jumped off (or into) at 22, that I wouldn't be found near now (some 20 years later).
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So true, under a new name. Just part of the aging process, a valuable part. Most of us males are a bit testosterone drunk at that age, aren't we. We're quite sure we're completely bullet proof. As we age, our subconscious mind instinctively knows our aging body isn't as strong, quick and nimble as it used to be, to pull our butts out of the fires our hormone laden brains used to get us into. Suddenly we become aware of our mortality.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Head injuries, ligament damage, broken bones, and death are all real risks encountered in skiing, and are experienced at a much higher rate of frequency than during driving.
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Depends how you measure it, I suppose. For most of us, including those of us who ski a good many weeks each year, I'd still guess that a serious injury in an RTA is a more real risk than a serious injury in a ski accident, in lifetime terms. The most common minor injury is whiplash which can be life-altering, especially for people whose jobs involve physical contortion - I have a nephew who was a plumber. What initially seemed like a minor accident (idiot drove into the back of him at road works) has caused him many years of chronic pain with some very acute episodes - including one when he was coming skiing with us three years ago and had to cancel.
Very few people drive round, or are driven round, mentally cringing at the thought of the dreadful things which might happen to them - but it seems from SHs threads that this is not uncommon amongst holiday skiers - mostly women, it seems.
I'd strongly agree that building the skills is the key, though. I have been doing that, and my skills are building, but because of my temperament (and age) I think I will always tend to ski quite conservatively and within my ability. Some temperaments drive people obsessed with the colour of pistes to always be teetering around just outside their level of ability - you see them everywhere from chairlifts. Be much better if they stayed on blue slopes, skied better, maybe faster, more relaxed, more controlled. And stopped worrying. People don't seem to have the same drive to push themselves into ever more challenging tasks when driving. Other than motor-sport enthusiasts and 17 year old boys who have just passed their tests (the latter being a group who kill themselves and their friends with monotonous regularity) most of us have no urge to come home boasting about our risky exploits on the roads.
Let's hear it for the elderly approach to skiing. Do it better, for longer, with fewer risks and no need to show off or prove anything to anyone else.
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| Quote: |
If I could find a way of listening to it whilst still hearing as much of the 'slope' I might be tempted.
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Earphones just in one ear works for me.
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that sounds a good idea. I've skied with several people, including my nervous sister in law, who suffers from hearing far too much of the "slope". She is perpetually listening for someone coming behind her - though the chances of her being able to do anything remotely effective about it are nil. Of course you need to keep a good look out, to be especially 100% aware of everyone below you and skiing slower, etc etc etc. But to "hear" the slope behind you? How realistic is that? On a busy slope you can hear people behind you quite a lot. So what? Should deaf people not be allowed to ski?
Do you play music in your car, megamum? It could mean you are less likely to hear the engine of the tractor round the bend of that country road. So, of course, does having the windows closed. So - windows open, no music, just has to be safer.
I'm not being ironic here - it would most definitely be safer. But most of us take the view that in winter, having the windows closed and some music on at moderate volume will make our driving experience more enjoyable if, statistically, just a tiny bit riskier.
Anyone would think I was proposing getting high on crack cocaine before you go on the slopes. 
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Not want to sound negative and while I agree the skills improve confidence, I feel you may be over egging it in this instance. Familiarity breeds contempt and if you were to ski the same piste twice a day on your way to and from home then I dare say you would zazz (whatever that is  ) along quite merrily. I would have to ask how you drive on unfamiliar roads, is there much zazzing?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Good snow tires and a helmet. You'll be set.
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pam w,
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Let's hear it for the elderly approach to skiing. Do it better, for longer, with fewer risks and no need to show off or prove anything to anyone else.
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(I do quite like proving things to myself, though.)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
So I'd just zazzed (reasonably legally) along the A12
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How can you get anywhere near the legal limit on the A12?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, yes, I play music in my car, occasionally at some volume! Yes, I also see the disparity tiffin, Unfamiliar roads are a bit like skiing - I zazz when I can see it's safe to do so, but when I reach the bits I can't see round I come off the gas quite considerably - you never know when there's a tractor round the next bend.
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I do quite like proving things to myself, though
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Ah yes, but that's different.  Not because anyone else is egging me on (rather the reverse....) or mocking my skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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What an interesting thread. I sure don't ski like I drive; I too have always been a confident driver, with one exception... I went through a strange phase when I was pregnant with No 1 where I suddenly had irrational fears that other vehicles would shoot out of side roads with brake failure.... I guess it was the maternal protective thing kicking in. That said, thoughts of the massive upset/inconvenience the family would experience should I crock myself skiing is quite prominent in my thoughts on the slope. That may be due to the guilt I still feel for what they all had to endure when I fell off a horse and broke a pelvic bone (got away with 6-8 weeks off games) and when I mangled my ankle (6 months + off games).
Oh, and no, I am not a lunatic on 4 wheels, but I don't hang about unnecessarily.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w,
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For most of us, including those of us who ski a good many weeks each year, I'd still guess that a serious injury in an RTA is a more real risk than a serious injury in a ski accident, in lifetime terms
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I did the sums once in a thread about helmets, I was reckoning that for me wearing a helmet in the car was probably a more intelligent thing to do than wearing one skiing.
Based on government mortality statistics for deaths per million k on the road and the available statistics for deaths per skier day. I reckon that in a year of my mileage and skiing approx four weeks per year I was over 10 times more likely to die in a car than on the slopes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
in your car you feel safe
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I feel safest of all. I can lock all my doors. It's the only way to live.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| pam wUnfamiliar roads are a bit like skiing - I zazz when I can see it's safe to do so, but when I reach the bits I can't see round I come off the gas quite considerably - you never know when there's a tractor round the next bend. |
And therein lies the difference in skiing. Gravity is our gas pedal, and we can't let up on it. It's always pushing us to go faster. The steeper it gets, the harder it pushes. We have no gas pedal to let off of, and it takes more skill to works the brakes, especially as the pitch intensifies. No wonder people get intimidated. If their skills are not up to snuff, they're well justified.
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Anecdotal evidence, car vs skis:
1) How often do we see people posting here about getting hurt while skiing, as opposed to posting about getting hurt in an auto accident?
2) In group get-togethers, bashes, etc, you've attended, have you witnessed skiing injuries? I have, many times. Of those, has anyone been injured driving to the get-togethers? Never, to my memory. And that's winter driving.
I rest my case.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FastMan,
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Anecdotal evidence, car vs skis:
1) How often do we see people posting here about getting hurt while skiing, as opposed to posting about getting hurt in an auto accident?
2) In group get-togethers, bashes, etc, you've attended, have you witnessed skiing injuries? I have, many times. Of those, has anyone been injured driving to the get-togethers? Never, to my memory. And that's winter driving.
I rest my case.
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Bumps bruises and even broken bones and stuff absolutely people fall over all the time on skis Smashed to F**k cream crackered cars win every time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, When you get in the car, do you look out the windscreen and consider everything that could go wrong before you set off? I doubt it. You just set off and deal with each obstacle as you go along leaving a margin for error and the unexpected but not worrying about stuff you can't predict. So you go around a bend at a speed you feel is safly within yours and the cars ability and you can avoid the possible oncoming tanker or wayward horse, but not swerving around each tree just incase they fall on you.
When you stand at the top of a steep slope what do you do? Look at it and work out where your first turn will be or think. What if the rock... the cliff... the tree... the... ahhh!?
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Butterfly,
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I guess it was the maternal protective thing kicking in.
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This obviously goes into complete reverse judging by the driving standards I have witnessed on the daily school run!!!
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Dypcdiver, not at all, that's other people's kids they're trying to kill; their own are safely inside their Chelsea tractors.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, 2 things occur to me
1) our roads are well signposted as to danger and generally the state of the road surface is a constant (extreme weather conditions excepted) whereas a piste can change condition at very short notice
2)driving a car doesn't rely much on physical fitness, it doesnt take much effort to press the brakes on a car but think how difficult it is to throw out the anchor n an emercency on your home run on skis!
3) Generally cars stay in the well defined lanes, it isn't often you get cars coming at you from all angles at different speeds
Yes I know I said 2 at the beginning!! 
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