 Poster: A snowHead
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And this is nothing to do with the death of the Pope. For the first time, Iran's biggest snow sports resort at Dizin has been closed by the religious authorities to commemorate the death of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and his grandson, 1400 years ago. Full fascinating article from Guardian Unlimited including this snippet of ancient skiing history .....
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On an average Friday - Iran's traditional day of rest - Dizin attracts an estimated 4,500 skiers.
Skiing in Iran dates back to 2000BC, when ancient tribes are believed to have devised a ski board made from animal hide. Linguists associate the word ski with the Aryan language, from which Farsi is derived. |
snowHead Saikee has seen Dizin out-of-season but not yet skied there. I used to go most weekends when I lived in Tehran 94-97. It obviously hasn't changed much. Parts of the article bring back memories.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Fascinating! Would I be considered dreadfully racist if I observed that there don't seem to be many Muslim countries where any sort of personal freedom exists? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski, no I don't think so - just stating the facts. There are some exceptions however. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population of any country and although I've never been there I believe it's a reasonably 'free' society. Iran being largely Shia is one of the most strict and they have few friends even among other Muslim nations. Saudia Arabia is Wahaabbi - another very strict interpretation. Sunni areas are not so restrictive and Malaysia is quite a good example of integration of 3 very different ethnic communities and religions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not "racist" easiski, since afaik "Muslim" is not a race 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Alan Craggs, which is a tad inconsistent as Judaism is considered a basis for a "race". However, as geneticists have found more diversity within "races" than between them, the whole concept of different races is a bit arbitrary and pretty pointless. On the point of closing a ski resort on a "day of rest", then there's plenty of Christians and Jews who would wish to do the same thing on a Sunday or a Saturday. That they tend to live in (nominally) secular countries tends to mean that they don't get their wish.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skanky, I know of many Christians (me included!) who would be horrified at ski resorts being closed on a Sunday as skiing is part of their "rest".
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Elizabeth B, yeah, that's why I said "plenty", not "all", and as in most religious decisions it depends on interpretation and definitions. Actually my comparison would probably have been better if I'd named a holiday (though that won't change your answer), and I'm sure that there are Muslims who would feel the same about this decision.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skanky, 'Jewishness' is an ethnic (if not racial) denomination as well a religious one; there are a good number of people who condiser themselves to be Jewish while not being at all religious, and the group seems to have more genetic homogeneity than many other religious groups (such as Islam and Christianity), presumably because of the relative difficulty of becoming Jewish (it is not an evangelising religion) and the relative reluctance of Jews to 'marry out'.
why anyone would wish to close a ski resort is beyond me.
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richmond, no particular racial group has any genetic homogeneity as 85% of genetic differences are within these groups - "ethnic" maybe but is that cultural or racial, I've never really known. There are at least two groupings of ethnic Jews - the larger one in Israel is very East European based while the other is very very close genetically to the Palestinian Arabs - closer than that of the East European Jews. Can't find the article that went into this, so may have misremembered some points from it, and can't remember the group namings, but it was (I think) by Glen Rangwala. If anyone does know of it, I'd like to find it again.
From some stories I've heard (some on this site), the people most guilty of unnecessarily closing ski resorts seem to be lift companies.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skanky, I'm sure that what you say is right. My points (for what they were worth) are just that "being Jewish" means more than simply adhering to a particular religion and that Jews are (I strongly suspect) less heterogeneous genetically than many other religions taken en masse, including Christianity and Islam, both of which have large numbers of devotees in different ethnic/racial groups.
I deliberately used 'ethnic' in my earlier post as I'm not sure that 'racial' is correct; I'm not too sure what 'race' means in human terms, but I don't think that Jews are a seperate one. They are however a distinct group in ways which are not simply religious (hence non religious Jews). You can't really be a non religious Christian. (Perhaps you can - maybe I'm one, having been christened, bought up in England and educated at schools with nominal C of E allegiance. I suppose that although I do not accept the tenets of Christianity, I have taken in some of its values and certainly I know some of its mythology (the Christmas story, the Easter story and so on). Even so, I don't think that people like me together with Christians form an ethnic (or whatever) group in the way in which Jews do.)
What has this to do with skiing? No idea; Moses coming down from the mountain perhaps? A bit tenuous.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, sorry, my original point (which I didn't make clear) that Jewish is considered a racial grouping is mainly in legel terms (though that often tends to cause a social change eventually as well). You're right about it culturally too, though I think many religions (or sections within religions) consider themselves culturally different because of the religious beliefs.
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| I deliberately used 'ethnic' in my earlier post as I'm not sure that 'racial' is correct; |
I don't know what the formal meaning ethnic is (I could look it up), and I rarely know what any individual person means by it as I'm sure it varies. That doesn't make it pointless to use it, but it does mean that we could be trying to say the same thing.
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| You can't really be a non religious Christian. |
Unless you're an anglican priest. 
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| What has this to do with skiing? No idea; Moses coming down from the mountain perhaps? A bit tenuous. |
The Greatest Ski Story Ever Told.
Charlton Heston put his vest on, and his salopettes, jacket, goggles, helmet, skis, etc...
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How many guns did he carry?
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm amazed that this thread hasnt attracted the hair spltting pedants, must be a first!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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easiski, dunno, but Richard Burton put his shirt on.
Seems to have Stumped a few people. Oh well... 
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Poster: A snowHead
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boredsurfin, and your problem with hair splitting pedants is?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just back from Iran after a month out there along the Gulf. Stopped ony in Tehran for a few hours so no prospect of visiting Dizin this time. But the host took me to the bottom of Tochal (5th highest skiing resort in the world and higher than anything in Europe) just to watch Tehran at night. A stunning sight indeed. Just one gondola up in Tochal (not open at night) and the display board shows the travelling time is 33 minutes!
I was told that the snow had melted and the road to Dizin has been badly hit. It should have possibly another month of skiing whereas Tochal can be skied in June because of its high altitude.
In Iran skiing is a truly international sport and male and female skiers are freely mixed. There is no dress code either.
Tochal is a the edge of the Tehran city literally accessible in minutes. The biggest Dizin is only 2 hours drive away. Thus skiing is a recreation Iranians like to do in a "rest" day. There is no other sport that young Iranians can be mixed so freely. It may be nothing to the outsiders but having a boy friend assisting a young girl on trying a snowboard out is almost a crime to the religious leaders. This is permitted in skiing because of the safety reasons only, as some Iranian mountains have few flat slopes.
The Iranians do take their public holidays seriously. There should be nothing open in Tehran possibly for 2 weeks for their Persian new year started 21 March and a religious holiday should be observed as well.
As long as the resorts are open the Iranians can have something they can be pround of. Where else can one go for a day of skiing in June for US$ 5?
Iran has a huge potential for the skiing industry. What they are enjoying is the "left over" from the facilities invested before the revolution although there are signs that the government is coming round to let the industry to develop.
With so much misunderstanding between the muslim and the western society I do find skiing does pull us together. We can understand each other better through sharing common interest. Don't take my word for it but if you go to Iran the only females willing to talk to you as a complete stranger are those in a skiing resorts. We in Europe simply take everthing including freedom to talk to each other for granted.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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More on skiing in Iran in this article from Khaleej Times but this time from the point of view of exploiting it's huge back country skiing potential.
Damavand mountain is a spectacular volcanic cone, with some hot springs round the base and small fumaroles near the top. Year round snow at altitude. But absolutely no lifts and at 18,600 feet altitude sickness is a potential problem for those climbing it the hard way. It's about 1.5 hours drive from Tehran. 3km of vertical descent apparently possible in winter time. Pretty good.
Almost on topic regarding the image of Iran ....
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But if skiers can get past the widely held preconceptions given to the “axis of evil” Islamic republic, they still have to get visas -- a process that one British adventure skier who recently visited Iran described as “bureaucratic hell”.
“The Iranian embassy wasn’t particularly helpful, and we got the impression they thought we were spies -- especially when we asked them for maps of the mountains. I think even they had a hard time believing we only wanted to go skiing,” said the skier, who preferred his name not be used.
“In the end we got the visas, but it took months. The skiing was incredible, but I’m sure a lot of people never make it beyond the visa process, and just think “lets go somewhere else instead’,” he said
Iran now seems to be bearing this kind of criticism in mind, and last month the country’s vice president for tourism, Hossein Marachi, revealed the Islamic republic will soon begin promoting its tourist potential on America’s CNN television and Britain’s BBC World.
“They will show Iranian tourist sites. You’ll not see Friday prayers,” he explained, referring to the weekly sermons that are usually accompanied by the chanting of “Death to America”. |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kuwait_ian,
As a matter of record I have neer waited more than a week for an Iranian visa and I had 8 so far. The visa application, similar to the counties in that region, requires an invitation from a local company. There have been at least two occasions that the Iranian Embassy informed my company that my visa was out on Friday, I then puchased the flight ticket, the courier delivered the visa to my home Saturday morning and I went to board the plane same day in the afternoon. A bona fide independent tourist will not be welcomed.
Iranian country map and Tehran maps are available in many hotel bookshops. I have both of them.
Iranian Embassy has been one of the easiest to deal with. They always tell us when will the visa be released and this is usually about 48 hours. My one week period including one day sending the passport down from Newcastle to London and then another day to courier it back.
Iran has the second largest gas reserve in the world so the Iranians are sitting on a gold mine. They don't need to develop the tourist or skiing industries. The younger generation prefers more freedom and skiing has been very popular with them. My Iranian host has been reluctant to go skiing because he couldn't find his age group on the slopes. Iran is no different to many Eastern European and Scandinavian countries in that their skiing resorts are catered for only domestic consumption.
Also believe it or not, the post-revolution Iranians are less regligious than the pre-revolution Iranians. I find "Death to America" rather interesting as it is the country with the biggest Iranian population outside Iran. While no credit card is accepted in Tehran the America dollars is the legal tender. America is also the most popular overseas destination for the Iranian students pursuing further studies (Britain being 2nd).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's not all doom and gloom, Dizin will host the World Cup Grass Skiing event from September 6th 2005.
http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=31818&NewsKind=Sport
and a view of the irrigated slope they use for the competitions
normally there is a magic-carpet type 'lift' to the left, out of shot, to return competitors to the top of the run which was about 400m long when I last saw it in 1997 (ish).
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FAQ
Losing one day in a season that goes from end November sometimes to April is not too serious. The rest of the time, Dizin and some of the smaller skiing places are pretty relaxed (by Iranian standards) and very popular with teenagers of both sexes. A call to prayer from a mini mosque at the bottom entrance to the Dizin slopes was universally ignored.
You certainly couldn't risk that in Saudi - traveller or not. 
