Just got back from a ski trip and looked at some video I took of friends skiing and it was really awful! Had lots of image shake and when paused got lots of double triple images so hard so see a clear picture of ski stance etc. So beginning some research on a new camcorder! I need things like good optical zoom, optical image stabilization, hard drive (I guess..) and good low light recording ability. I guess being robust would also be important. Love to hear from experts or at least from people who are happy with their camcorders. Thanks in advance!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Luke, would prob not want a hard drive machine, something that saves onto solid state media would be better.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kevindonkleywood, ok thanks for that any suggestions as to make/models?
daehwons, True - mine has but its crap! Hence the thread! From researching I have found out that there is optical stabilization and digital stabilization and while digital is fine indoors etc its not much use for sports etc. My questions remains - does anyone have suggestions/or experience of a camcorder that will allow me to get good quality video of skiing?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Luke, do you plan on editing the video footage that you record? If you do it's worth deciding what editing software you will use and whether the camcorder you choose is compatible with it. I use a Sanyo HD2000 camcorder - good picture quality and very portable, although zoomed-in shots are quite jerky because it doesn't have good optical stabilization, but the main reason for me choosing it was the file format it records in is easily edited on the video software I like to use. From a pure picture quality point of view other camcorders (the Canon HD camcorders that a colleague uses for skiing) produces a better picture, but it's much more hassle to use the files it produces with my computer.
Some of the new "sport" helmet cameras look good.... check out the youtube vids
Does your camera have a tripod mount? you could try a handle like skateboarders use if your a bit more serious about it.
Mounting the camera on your head makes even a non-stabalised camera pretty good
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rob@rar, Thats a very good question Rob! On balance I will probably be doing very little real editing as my stuff will not be for public consumption (thankfully!). Generally I just tend to cut out the rubbish and then paste similar themes together to make coherent DVDs. But I stress nothing fancy. So to answer your question I think video quality is more important - especially that video shake which I seem to suffer from quite a lot! I want to be able to slow mo to see if I am actually doing what I think Im doing and to freeze at certain points as well.. I have seen some fantastic stills on here from guys such as yourself and my camera gives me nothing like that clarity. I took advice for my last camcorder from a shop guy who obviously never tried to video skiers! I will have a look at the thread you provided as well - thanks!
After all it is free
After all it is free
daehwons, I definitely dont want a head cam - not young enough or cool enough for that!
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Luke, I'm neither young nor cool but manage to use a headcam without feeling too much of an idiot. But they are limited in terms of what they can do: great for following another skier, but not much use for anything else.
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Use a Go Pro Hd Camera with a chest harness then.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar, My comment was tongue in cheek! Im mainly looking to be able to take long shots of someone skiing down the mountain and being able to play it back without wondering if I even had the right skier in the pic! My existing one is that bad!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Luke,
What is your budget?
I have a previous model to the one that Rob has and I've found it OK and taken some decent footage, although the lack of a viewfinder can be a big issue in sunlight.
To get the best footage (irrespective of model) you may need to play around with the type of focus the camcorder is using. I've found that switching it to 'spot focus' gets the best results if you keep focused on the person in the centre of the frame.
TBH I find videoing skiing quite tricky as typically you will want to start videoing when the subject is a few hundred metres away and keep videoing as they go past you. Not too easy! In the abscence of a tripod you can help matters by resting the camcorder on a ski pole and don't do much zooming in or out.
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do you plan on editing the video footage that you record? If you do it's worth deciding what editing software you will use and whether the camcorder you choose is compatible with it
Completely agree with this. Typically camcorders can take better quality video than your computer and software can easily edit. I no longer record in full HD as frankly it's a pain to edit, instead I usually convert to AVI files (shrinking the footage and then edit). The software for editing may be a bit trial and error, recently I've been using Pinnacle or Adobe which have been good (software is certainly better than it was a couple of years ago.
Have you thought about buying a digital SLR? I've just bought a Sony A55 and one of the key reasons was the video abilities. There is a compromise taking this route as taking the footage can be more tricky than a camcorder but you will have an optical viewfinder which can help.
Check out this video for quality (certainly not for the skiing!!). Shot with a Sanyo HD1000 (a previous model to Robs) in 720p, converted to AVI and then edited in Pinnacle. You will see the type of quality but also the type of shot that works best, ie. holding the camcorder VERY still. Long shots and zooming don't work too well. No amount of optical stabilisation will work well if you are shaking the camcorder around. Some software can get rid of SOME camera shake, it does this by stretching the footage and then aligning it. I haven't had much success with this method though.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Chattonmill, I did look at the go pro reviews but not sure that they will give me the zoom to video someone from the top of a hill to bottom? I believe they are limitied to mostly following someone etc? I stand to be corrected...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Luke wrote:
not sure that they will give me the zoom to video someone from the top of a hill to bottom? I believe they are limitied to mostly following someone etc? I stand to be corrected...
They don't have a zoom, and the fixed lens is very wide angle. Best used for following someone (or pointing backwards and have them following you) or solo skiing. Absolutely hopeless for taking long shots.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Chattonmill wrote:
Use a Go Pro Hd Camera with a chest harness then.
OMG a baby bjorn for geeks !
Luke, get a tripod with a fluid head if you want to film action without camera shake. OIS canbe more trouble that it is worth in certain circumstances, it is designed to film relatively still shots and remove the hand shake (delirium tremens for snowheads ).
If you are following a skier while moving or panning the OIS will try to correct this general movement, until it cannae take it no more and you will see a jump in the action.
If you want to follow a skier while moving get a monopod or even a ski pole adapter and put a half kilo sack on the bottom... poor man's steady cam.
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Poster: A snowHead
e17phil, Brillian video Phil! Now thats exactly what Im looking for! To hell with the new video cam .. just bring you along! However the editing looks a bit more advanced that I would be capable of... and your points about stability are noted -especially on long zoom... BTW love the anticipation of the guys doing the mini jumps... will they or wont they go flying?? Brilliant!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Luke, You are absolutly right! But it is a good alterantive to a headcam, I don't wear a helmet so have been using bullet cams, but the Archos recorder doesnt like the cold or vibrations, so have looked at a different approach.
I agree that an SLR with image stabilisation would be a good idea, I have a Nikon D80, which doesnt video, but the newer ones do, the stabilisation is in the lens rather that the body and is very effective as it has two modes, this also makes zooming more controlable and smooth.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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get a tripod with a fluid head
David the only time Ive seen a fluid head is when my mates wake up after too much beer! I was hoping to avoid tripods of every description for the simple reason that I want to ski without a mobile video unit on my back! However the ski pole thingy might be of interest.. I would be more than happy with the quality the Phil and Rob are producing!
I got myself a Panasonic HDC-SD60. haven't used it for skiing yet but other results are pretty good. Only cost just over £300. It's nice and small and I've got a hard case for keeping it safe in my rucksack. Editing is more of a problem with HD, I haven't bought any software yet, there's some really basic stuff with it, but will get something soon, about £50.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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To hell with the new video cam .. just bring you along!
Any time Most of the editing TBH was getting rid of cr@p footage. What you see there is what was left!!!
I wouldn't bother too much with very long shots (or at least don't expect them to be much good!). Best to find a good quiet piste where the person videoing can get a good stance and rest the camcorder on a pole - hence all this footage is on blue runs - although at the bottom of a steep bit of a red or black would be good.
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BTW love the anticipation of the guys doing the mini jumps... will they or wont they go flying?? Brilliant!
The guy who crashed pretty much knew he would as the bit he went over was very steep but he did it for the sake of the video It was probably the best quality of all the footage I took and looks quite good in slo-mo
e17phil, Brillian video Phil! Now thats exactly what Im looking for! To hell with the new video cam .. just bring you along! However the editing looks a bit more advanced that I would be capable of...
Some cameras (like the kodak easyshare ones) come with some software that makes it easy enough and have "upload to YouTube" options built in
There is a new one just been announced that is 3m shock and waterproof - its tiny too!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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Editing is more of a problem with HD, I haven't bought any software yet, there's some really basic stuff with it, but will get something soon, about £50.
May I suggest you try a few trial versions before committing to software. Programs that work well on my computer don't on my mates and we are using computers of a similar spec and exactly the same footage!
I also use Format Factory (free) to bulk convert footage to AVI to shrink it and make it easier to edit (i don't seem to lose much quality by doing this).
After all it is free
After all it is free
e17phil, I get a message saying you are using pirated stuff from SMG and they will be sending the boys round to your house !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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e17phil, I get a message saying you are using pirated stuff from SMG
I did say TRIAL software, not pirated Most companies give you 30 day free trials.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Colin B, Thanks Colin
e17phil, I was hoping to get a bit more ambitious - do some off piste video and moguls.. great to get video feedback for that stuff.. position of arms etc.. but I think the idea of resting the camera on a pole is a good idea. Is a viewfinder a necessity for this kind of stuff?
daehwons,Thanks for that - but Im tending more towards video quality as the primary goal.. not sure Id want to share my stuff on youtube!!
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I also use Format Factory (free) to bulk convert footage to AVI to shrink it and make it easier to edit (i don't seem to lose much quality by doing this).
Phil whats the issue with editing HD - why does it have to be converted?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Only issue with editing HD is having a computer with a fast enough CPU and enough RAM, and a suitable program
I've been using a Panasonic SDC-HD5 for a few years now. Optical zoom is only 10x, but anymore and camera shake is inevitable. Records in 720p, saves to SDHC which means I just unplug the card from the camera and plug it into my laptop, copy and then edit away. For editing, I use an older version of Nero (v8 I think), which at the time was one of the few which can edit directly the AVCHD files generated by the camera.
The SDC-HD5 has long been superceded, but my comments should apply to the later version as well - but note if you do record in 1080p it will take longer to edit/render.
There are quite a few of my videos recorded/edited using this combination on youtube, examples below, just make sure you click the resolution button to select the HD versions where available:
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is a viewfinder a necessity for this kind of stuff?
Not necessary but if it's sunny I find I cannot see anything on the screen, so preferable rather than essential.
RobW,
I like the way you start the video with a fall! Is that to keep his ego in check?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
RobW, Oliver is looking like he is going to be a great skier! The quality you are showing there is perfectly fine from my perspecitve.. however the 10x optical zoom seems a bit on the weak side?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar,
good picture quality and very portable, although zoomed-in shots are quite jerky because it doesn't have good optical stabilization, but the main reason for me choosing it was the file format it records in is easily edited on the video software I like to use. From a pure picture quality point of view other camcorders (the Canon HD camcorders that a colleague uses for skiing) produces a better picture, but it's much more hassle to use the files it produces with my computer.
Rob - Have you come across a compromise camcorder between ease of edit and quality of picture. Looking at your website the quality seems very good.. I dont envisage getting into too much fancy editing however,,
e17phil, good point Phil and noted..
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
e17phil, Yeh, something like that. Unfortunately (fortunately?) he rarely crashes when I'm videoing, so getting this one was a bonus I just had to use!
Luke, Yes he's a pretty good skier. He was skiing on some GS skis over new year which I thought too big for him, but he coped great, both at high-speed GS turns, and in tight stuff between the trees. Grrr - he shows up my limitations far too easily.
A 10x (optical) zoom I agree does sound a bit weak, but in practice if you are using a higher zoom level to get in closer from further away, it is very difficult to reduce camera shake sufficiently even with stability control on that the resultant footage is very jumpy. Pretty sure the newer models have a higher (optical) zoom though.
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RobW,Annoying how the kids get so good so bloody quick!
Just been off the phone to the sony centre and they confirm that issue about camer shake unless I go into the pro sumer range which is in the several thousands bracket! They have recommended a sony HDR CX 550 retailing for about a grand. They also say that you have to get editing software as sony is just not up to any sort of editing! I will look at the panasonics and cannon as well as per the suggestions on this thread.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Luke wrote:
Rob - Have you come across a compromise camcorder between ease of edit and quality of picture.
Find out if the video editing software you plan to use is happy to edit HD footage in the AVCHD file format. If it does you have a very wide choice: I'd go for the smallest HD camcorder in your budget (perhaps doing a quick check on the review websites to make sure there are no major problems with that model). I think any of the models from the well known brands will do a good job for you.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'm trying to get a Panasonic HDC-SD600K from the states ($400 vs £449) - I'm mainly interested in technique - 1080P60 should be great for slowing stuff down. It has better low light performance than the HDC-SD60, but seems to be broadly similar?
[quote="Luke"]
daehwons,Thanks for that - but Im tending more towards video quality as the primary goal.. not sure Id want to share my stuff on youtube!!
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They are good quality cameras, the only let down is the lack of optical zoom.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
.Ro, Here is a good review/comparison from the website thatrob@rar, recommened (camcorderinfo.com). The HDC-TM700 is the best camcorder we've reviewed so far in 2010, but since Sony dropped the price of the HDR-CX550V down to $1049 it actually compares quite well with the TM700 as far as value goes. With the CX550V you're getting twice the internal memory of the TM700 (64GB vs. 32GB), which goes a long way in determining a camcorder's value. Still, the HDC-TM700 is the superior performer thanks to its 1080/60p record mode that delivered stunning results in all of our tests.
Feature-wise, the two camcorders are very similar, but the Panasonic again has a slight edge. The TM700 has more manual controls, more features, and a 24p Digital Cinema mode along with its 60i and 60p recording options. The Sony does have a bigger, better LCD, a slicker menu design, and a significantly wider lens.
We say go with the HDC-TM700 over the Sony HDR-CX550V—unless you're concerned about editing compatibility with Panasonic's 1080/60p clips (most editing programs can't handle the 60p clips right now). If this scares you then the Sony HDR-CX550V is worth a look. Plus, Sony is one of the only manufacturers to include SD recording options on its consumer camcorders as well as its default HD modes—something that can be very helpful for people who are on the fence as to whether they are ready to shoot in HD or not.
So far based on my research the Panasonic TM 700 seems to tick most boxes - apart from fan noise it gets good review..
FAQ
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