 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anybody know what exactly is involved or what ski techniques nead to be demonstrated in order to pass the first BASI level? e.g. Would almost perfect execution of a snowplough turn be one of them ?
http://www.basi.org.uk/index/index_noflash.asp
How hard is the speed test later (e.g. would the two Dark Horses at the EOSB and PG's daughter Hannou, be fast enough?).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB,
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Would almost perfect execution of a snowplough turn be one of them ?
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I'd certainly expect so !
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How hard is the speed test later
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You need to ask either a BASI Trainer, or someone who has (recently) passed. IMHO if you are skiing at Grade 1/2 level, you should (with training) pass, but you'll need to budget for a lot of time on snow training - and get started sooner rather than later.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For BASI 3 you have to be able to do much more than a perfect snowplough. You have to demonstrait, snowplough turns, dynamic snowplough turns, basic swing & parallel. You have to be able to do these perfectly as you will be demonstrating them for your class.
You also have go beyond the basics and be able to ski bumps, steeps, high speed & variable terrain. You have to ski these to the standard that BASI require.
You also have to be able to teach. You will have to do a couple of teaching practices with the guys on your course as your students. This will also be assesed.
Before you can do your three you have to do your Trainee course where they will take your skiing apart & start to put it together again. They will give you stuff to work on & then tell you how many weeks you should ski before you sit your three. You also have to shadow for 70 hours and get that signed off before you can sit your three.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DB wrote: |
| How hard is the speed test later |
For men, they have to be within 18% of a baseline, and for women 24%. It has been suggested (by PG, I think, in another thread) that the baseline is with reference to the presumed time by a (the?) person with 0 FIS points, which I think equates to the top competitor on the World Cup starting list (but I'm not sure of my ground here). This presumed time is calculated with reference to the time of a forerunner with a known number of FIS points.
The BASI web site has some results in an Excel spreadsheet of speed tests they ran at Cairngorm over two days in March. There were about 35 competitors each day (mainly the same people) with two runs per day on which to attempt a qualifying time. One person passed on each day. Many of the entrants missed by wide margins. I presume all the entrants had completed lots of BASI training in order to be allowed to take part, but I don't know that for a fact.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I did an assessment with a BASI I instructor last year. It was a week long coaching/development course with one of the aims to see whether he thought I would be able to obtain BASI III.
revolutionski, is absolutley correct. One of the hardest things is to "go back" and perfect basic turns. It's surprising how quickly one moves on and "forgets" the early stuff. My week entailed undoing my skiing and then putting it all back together. At the end of the week, I was assessed as having a realistic chance of obtaining BASI III, albeit with a little more coaching/practice. As for getting to BASI II, that would require a good deal more time on snow than I could afford, unfortunately.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I apologies if this is a stupid question, but why do you need to do a speed test to become an instructor?
As it is unlikely that the people you are instructing would be able to keep up with a good skier anyway.
Also why do the comparison with a world cup skier?
As this would be equivalent of a driving instructor having to complete the lap of a race curcuit within a set time based on the lap time done by an F1 driver before they could teach someone how to drive.
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davidb, It's what the French use, so BASI (and other European countries) use it too.
It isn't used at trainee (Stagiere) level, so you can start to teach without it...but if you want to teach professionally, you'll need to pass.
And yes, going fast - even down a GS course, does not, of itself, make you a good teacher. Probably makes you a good skier tho'
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ise, of course, won;t be back for a week - since he's on his BASI course having his skiing pulled apart (again, after Charlotte did to all of us at the bash  )
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| easiski wrote: |
| The speed test is there as an unbiased assessment of your ski-ing. If you can ski well enough you can get the time. If you can't you don't! The level required is about English team standard (but most candidates are older and more experienced of course). It's not unobtainable, but is difficult and requires serious training. Many of the Scottish lot don't train seriously enough for it and are then surprised when they're miles away. The opener is likely to be an ex world cup skier, but their times are averaged as per the ESF tests. |
Would you say most fail because of their lack of physical training or technical inexperience in running gates?
I'm trying to work out just how good/fast a skier you need to be to past the speed test. e.g. would the older children who I see racing on the glaciers be likely to pass the test or would only adults with the extra weight and very good racing technique pass? Would Hannou likely pass it or is she too light just yet?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, this whole conversation has been held earlier - if I can find a link I'll add it later. However I think that the reckoning was that currently, Hannah would be able to pass.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DB wrote: |
| Would you say most fail because of their lack of physical training or technical inexperience in running gates? |
Technical inexperience.
Being able to ski very quickly on piste doesn't automatically translate into being able to ski quickly through a control gates. Much more precision is required in the transition from one turn to another, in carving ability, in turn shape, choice of line, etc. As easiski said, you need a lot of training, preferably with decent instruction, to get to this standard.
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Thanks NBT the link would be useful if you can find it.
| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| Would you say most fail because of their lack of physical training or technical inexperience in running gates? |
Technical inexperience.
Being able to ski very quickly on piste doesn't automatically translate into being able to ski quickly through a control gates. Much more precision is required in the transition from one turn to another, in carving ability, in turn shape, choice of line, etc. As easiski said, you need a lot of training, preferably with decent instruction, to get to this standard. |
Does their Basi I training not include enough running of gates or something?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| laundryman wrote: |
For men, they have to be within 18% of a baseline, and for women 24%. It has been suggested (by PG, I think, in another thread) that the baseline is with reference to the presumed time by a (the?) person with 0 FIS points, which I think equates to the top competitor on the World Cup starting list (but I'm not sure of my ground here). This presumed time is calculated with reference to the time of a forerunner with a known number of FIS points.
The BASI web site has some results in an Excel spreadsheet of speed tests they ran at Cairngorm over two days in March. There were about 35 competitors each day (mainly the same people) with two runs per day on which to attempt a qualifying time. One person passed on each day. Many of the entrants missed by wide margins. I presume all the entrants had completed lots of BASI training in order to be allowed to take part, but I don't know that for a fact. |
Couldn't open that spreadsheet? I was going to check out the names and see if any had corresponding FIS points for racing - that would give me a good idea of standards in terms of speed ability.
If few/none have FIS points, that might suggest those participating were primarily leisure skiers with good technical ability, trying to learn controlled skiing at speed rather "late" in life. Most will probably never ski as many gates in their entire careers as Alps-based kids have by their early teens.
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Poster: A snowHead
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PG, they open for me - will email to you now.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB, Combination of lack of experience (aactual racing and race training) and also lack of fitness. To do the speed test you need to make like a racer. Physical training and pole training along with technical training. When I had a season back in Scotland after being here, I couldn't make the guys there take it seriously enough. "Oh but the bumps are great on the Ciste at the moment" and so on.
PG, They will all have been ski instructors - different grades undoubtedly.
I'm sure Hannah would pass without any bother at her current standard - but she is seriously good! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's surprizing to see virtually all fail especially if they were ski instructors, BASI I is no cheap investement. Could understand Joe Blogg weekend warriors (such as me) failing by big margins but not people who were trying to achieve a high level skiing qualification.
Not that I'm up for it yet but can you do this speed test at any time or do you have to be a certain qualified level? Anybody know if there is an Austrian equivalent?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DB, what's the Austrian ski school equivalent of the timed GS "flèche" run by the ESF here for tourists/racers/allcomers? During the season they take place in every resort, at least once a week. If you can get gold in one of those (albeit it on a shorter, usually less testing course) you would be at or close to speed test standard.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| PG, they open for me - will email to you now. |
Thanks, received. Am about to go off line as I have WIFI installed, will look later.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A swift check of the B.A.S.S. points (British Alpine Seeding System) http://www.britski.org/bass05_5.htm but I can't see any of them, so they would not seem to race at all under a British licence.
Haven't checked FIS yet, but that'll be the same result probably.
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DB, You can try it at any time...I expect you'll need to be a BASI member at least however. The point about the test is that it is hard.. you will need to train for it.
I'm not suprised about the pass rates in Scotland - they may well have only had the M1 open for the weekend of the test, making training a little tricky !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did five seasons teaching at the Lecht.
Kids out in the alps get skiing as part of the curriculum. They can choose to do more skiing in the winter and do more school in the summer, or the other way round. They ski so much so I suppose that a dry slope and a few weekends on the snow are no real match for that.
I have my BASI III at the moment & I am not even thinking about the speed test until I have been training for at least a season. It doesn't help that I have no interest in racing at all, but needs must.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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revolutionski, Yes, needs must! Not all of us (Grade 1s with equivalence that is) were born in the mountains - many of us only had holidays to rely on, and when I was younger dry slopes hadn't been invented (but neither had piste machines, ski brakes or saftey bindings).
Think of your race training as an integral part of your ski-ing skills training - you won't ever regret doing it. However I suggest you do start training IMMEDIATELY. It's likely to take longer than a season to acquire the skills required. Don't the schools you work for put on some race training after work or during the quiet times? You mentioned US/NZ. Surely you can do some racing? It's very important to actually RACE. The speed test isn't a race per se, but if you don't have any experience of racing then getting your head in the right place is nearly impossible. See the thread about Kwami from Ghana - look at his results (links on the thread), and see how long it took him to get going with 2 comparable runs.
Good luck anyway. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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[b]revolutionski, You can start this at yopur local dry slope race club. 
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ski, But if he's working 2 season on snow, he probably won't want to put his boots on or go on plastic!
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, True - but if he's not !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have raced a couple of times on plastic @ the british uni champs & my head definatly wasn't in the right place! I hated it
I am more into the freeride & park side of skiing. I noticed that for your two you can actually replace the APC with a freereide modual for your BASI II. Maybe they are catching onto it.
I will start training for gates as I know it will make me a better skiier all round. I have freinds that raced for GB & Scotland & it is easy to see that they are so well balanced on their skis, no matter what the terrain. THey just charge it all.
It is going to be hard to pull myself away from the park to bash gates but it has to be done.
The plan is NZ this summer to get my NZSIA 2, then hopefully across to the US and back to NZ. Just keep doing back to back seasons & eventually settle in NZ.
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Poster: A snowHead
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revolutionski, You're correct......just get into those gates ! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FAQ
. Maybe they just need to spend more time in the Alps, but at any rate they could train at Hillend and various other Scottish spots if they were really serious. 
