 Poster: A snowHead
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After to ask for a appartment to hire for a little family, I find out there is people that have make investment i exlusive appartments/chalets, to finance their own skiing. one example, a appartment in les Arc 1800, 4 beds, 42 m2, price 940euro per week? the price seems to be like this, it makes 235euro/bed, and this is in middle season, what did I find, after to look on tourist office, to hire from local people that live and work in the area, I find a appartment the same week as in Les Arc, A place in Les sybbelles, not a little ski resort, Its I think the 4th biggest skiarea in france, with 74 lifts and skiing from 1100m to 2620m, the apparment is located on 1750m, the size of the flat? 80m2, 8 beds, a big terrace at south, ski in, ski out, this for a price of 460euro/week. That makes 58euro per bed. I know that their is scandinavian and english skier that finance their own skiing this way, to go for skiing in North America or Japan, when they have their own appartments payed by other skiing familys. For me it seems to be better to hire from people from the area, that live and work there, and have a price that including VAT. In this way a family that want to ski will have more money to spend for ski lessons etc
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well spotted - yes it is often cheaper to hire from local people rather then foreigners. They don't usually have the same overheads, for a start. It's also always going to be a whole lot cheaper in Les Sybelles than in Les Arcs whoever you rent from, so you're not really being fair in making that comparison.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Isn't it great that there is a wide range of choices available, in terms of resorts and in terms of ski accommodation. You pays your money, and you takes your choice. The joy of it.
And if you think my apartment in Les Arcs is self-financing, let alone pays for me to ski elsewhere, you are completely and utterly wrong. Nice troll though.
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I have hired from local owners in St Sorlin, one of the other Les Sybelles areas, so I've done that in the past. I've also hired from local owners in Switzerland and for this February in St Anton. I've even hired an apartment in Alpe D'Huez from a Belgian owner. It used to work out cheaper to do that but the slide in the exchange rate has made it less attractive. I've also booked an apartment in Les Deux Alpes for the last few Easters from an English owner and it is just as reasonably priced.
Les Sybelles is fine, it's large, and I'll probably go back again some time (I've been twice). But most of those 74 lifts are very slow and the piste skiing is mostly easy. It really doesn't bear up against most similar sized (if you're just using km of piste as the measure) resorts in France.
At the end of the day you're helping to finance the property of the owner whether they be French, Swiss, Belgian, English or Austrian. That may be a holiday home, an investment, a business or possibly a combination of those.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yup. Looked into buying an apartment years ago and concluded that, as a business proposition it was not for me. Of course many have an apartment for which letting can offset costs, which is perfectly fair. As rob@rar says, we have a wide range of choice - which is very good for the average holiday skier.
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achilles, Yes I quite seriously thought about buying a property this autumn, even went out to France to look at a few. I was quite shocked at the standing costs, about 2000 euros per year in various taxes and management costs for a very small studio. Even without a mortgage on it I would have had to rent out for a few weeks a year at least, although ideally I wouldn't have wanted to, in order to recover some of those costs. Decided against it in the end. I'll continue to pay various owners from around Europe a few hundred Euros per week instead.
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| Quote: |
At the end of the day you're helping to finance the property of the owner whether they be French, Swiss, Belgian, English or Austrian. That may be a holiday home, an investment, a business or possibly a combination of those.
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Exactly. With more people able to fix up DIY holidays easily, and find a big range of privately rented apartments and compare prices, I guess the differential between British -owned apartments and others (which has certainly existed) will begin to disappear. The market will become much closer to a "perfect market".
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| pam w wrote: |
| I guess the differential between British -owned apartments and others (which has certainly existed) will begin to disappear. The market will become much closer to a "perfect market". |
When I set the prices for my apartment I don't benchmark against owners of a particular nationality, I simply look at accommodation of the same standard as mine (essentially in the same development). The majority of owners in my development are French, with a number of Brits, Belgians and Dutch. I then price mine a little bit lower.
There is no doubt you can get cheaper rentals in Les Arcs (there's a lot of 'rabbit-hutch' style apartments to choose from) and no doubt there are cheaper resorts. So if those apartments or those resorts offer what you're looking for at a price you prefer it's a bit of a no-brainer, you should book there and save your money. I'm sure Les Sybelles will be lovely.
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you simple get the best deal for the resort and area within the resort that you can get, irrespective of the nationality of the owner. But remember kids, never confuse quality with price 
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| Quote: |
never confuse quality with price
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of course not. But I think one difference I've noticed is that the local owners have much more price elasticity. A high quality (2 bedroom MGM new build slopeside) apartment will be 1150 euros a week in the four February holiday weeks, 350 in a low ski season week and maybe even cheaper in summer. And they are not all rented, even at low prices, outside peak weeks. But there's no point in renting out very cheaply at a market-clearing price when renters will still inflict a fair bit of wear and tear and use loads of expensive electricity and water. The growing number of Brits (much more likely than the French to ski in low season) will help with getting better occupancy rates and if the French ever decide to dip a toe in the water of flexible bookings (ie not just Saturday to Saturday) that would help a lot. We have a friend who is relaxed about dates and gets some good rentals as a result - people using mid-week flights or just doing a long weekend.
There are several Dutch owners and a lot of Dutch renters in our development. They generally seem to speak the language of everybody around them, often really well. Intimidating. Interestingly the big new MGM development 200 yards down the road has been heavily pre-sold to Italians, apparently. So I expect we'll be seeing lots more Italians - they're a small minority at present, fewer than Brits.
Our apartment will be "rented" out at English half term for £150. Will - I hope - cover the elec and water bills.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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freeheelskier,
one answer is 'don't finance others skiing trips'.
The only way we as a family could afford to ski in europe was to drive and take on of the local tourist board offers of accommodation with lift pass included deals. Often rooms in farmhouses, local houses or small hotels, some even arranged 'borrowed' skis for the kids ! More than a few times the owners or their kids gave a bit of guided skiing and 'coaching' for free.
i would say i know a few folk who own apartments in ski areas and they do so mainly to save themselves 'rental', rather than to make loads of money. They all tend to say that its far more lucrative to own and rent a flat or house year round in UK than to do 'holiday' lets. Anyway its not something that comes on my radar.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If the OP wanted to spend less than the 940eur asked he could have gone to Scotland! That would be much cheaper!!! The resort you compared it with is not of the same standing as Les Arcs, you would be better minded to look at the same week in V'D, or 3v to get a better comparison!
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| If the OP wanted to spend less than the 940eur asked he could have gone to Scotland! That would be much cheaper!!! The resort you compared it with is not of the same standing as Les Arcs, you would be better minded to look at the same week in V'D, or 3v to get a better comparison! |
i know, but it all depends what you like. To me the quoted resorts are like the benidorm, tenerife and sharm al of skiing....yuk.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, the OP seemed to be confusing quality and price though
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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linso, you're right. I'd be surprised if anyone makes loads of money from renting out a ski apartment - and with the tougher new tax rules coming in, anybody just dabbling in a few weeks rental could be quite heavily penalised. Renting out a house in the UK is definitely much more lucrative. Most ski apartments are empty most of the time.
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Poster: A snowHead
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linso, i know what you mean! However the resorts you think of as "Benidorm" type are at the premium end of the spectrum! The "maldive" type resort mentioned would be at the lower end of the price spectrum! As mentioned above thank god for variety and choice! heaven forbid we would spend all day with "chavs" or indeed for that matter with "hooray Henry's"!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Roy Hockley,
agreed...ha 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ok  I was not mean to be bad, just a little provocation . We have all the right to make our own choice, and I also like to ski Les Arc, There is wonderfull skiing, But for this time I will go with my family and smaller kids, so I find les Sybells as a better choice for me this time, If I go with skiing friends or alone, ofcourse I make a different choise. I was just to show that a skiing holiday need to cost alot only for the appartment/hotel, this different will help alot of familys that want to ski in the alps, and english skier had alot of costs anyway, ferry, and far distance in france with expencive peage (roadtax). I also are Ok with all coments and agree with U all, se this just like it was, a
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, I think anyway this was hot for you,
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freeheelskier, Have a nice skiing in Japan
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| freeheelskier wrote: |
| rob@rar, I think anyway this was hot for you, |
You're hot for me? Good Lord!
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| freeheelskier wrote: |
| freeheelskier, Have a nice skiing in Japan |
Where in Japan are you going?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, Hokkaido, beginning of Mars 2 weeks, travel with a friend that live in Japan
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| freeheelskier wrote: |
| rob@rar, Hokkaido, beginning of Mars 2 weeks, travel with a friend that live in Japan |
Have a great trip, and hope the snow is deep for you.
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