 Poster: A snowHead
|
We all know that insurance companies will look for any excuse not to pay out and with so much talk about fitting winter tyres it may be worth checking out how it effects your insurance, to get the real facts about Winter tyres and what your insurance company will or will not do see their association's web site (ABI)
They have very nicely summarized the situation for their memebers
http://www.abi.org.uk/Information/Consumers/General/Winter_Tyres__The_Motor_Insurance_Committment.aspx
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 17-12-11 12:54; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
leedsunited, broken link.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Hells Bells, Thanks now fixedD G Orf, Many thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
All insurance companies now have to allow you to fit winter tyres. They also can't charge you any more for fitting them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Ricklovesthepowder, The ABI document says different and it was only published a week ago, it says some may and some may not!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
leedsunited, I inform my insurance company and get an OK from them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
leedsunited, The document you linked to explicitly says:
The insurers named below do not require the payment of any additional premium
You just have may have to tell them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
leedsunited, Excelent link should end some of the debate on here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Think most of the issues with extra costs for "modifications" were for swapping between standard alloy wheels, and cheap steel wheels, rather than the tyres. When I swap, I swap tyres on the original rims.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
andy, Problem with most big alloys that they will not take chains, I have to swap from 19 to 17 wheels with taller profile winter rated and become used to different handling charateristics
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
andy, yes - I had a long debate about that!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Ricklovesthepowder wrote: |
| All insurance companies now have to allow you to fit winter tyres. They also can't charge you any more for fitting them. |
Any reason you might believe that?
the ones in that list have signed up to a commitment to not charge you more, but your statement is the first thing I have heard suggesting they may not be allowed to do so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
andy, Aren't our insurers narrow minded. Most people in N America and Europe where winters are intense have a separate set of wheels with the winter tyres on them. Those will probably be steel wheels ,not alloys, on cost grounds. I really can't see why that shouldn't be obvious and acceptable, provided the size is unchanged.
Now, to argue with myself, there are some cars with such fine wheelarch/body tolerances that the standard wheel/tyre won't take chains and since chains can be obligatory in some places they would have to fit a smaller diameter wheel or a less fat tyre. Here the insurers would probably put up the shutters I guess unless there were available a written statement from the manufacturer that the chosen alternative were acceptable. Anybody got experience of this situation ? eg, how did Cynic, get it approved ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Farley Goode wrote: |
Now, to argue with myself, there are some cars with such fine wheelarch/body tolerances that the standard wheel/tyre won't take chains and since chains can be obligatory in some places they would have to fit a smaller diameter wheel or a less fat tyre. |
Most clearance issues aren't between wheelarch/body, they're between the wheel and the suspension strut. Beware of fitting smaller diameter rims as there then can be insufficient clearance between the rim and the brakes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Farley Goode, I don't have the details, but my brother-in-law has been unable to sort out winter tyres for his Mazda 5. Manufacturer wasn't helpful either. It is an extremely heavy car (electric sliding rear doors add to the weight), it was terrible in last winter's snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Hells Bells, I see Mazda 5s over here with full winter equipment. Why is it that the Brits let their insurers dictate to them in such a manner? None of the cars that seem to be unable to be winterised have the same problems over here in Europe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Samerberg Sue, something to do with winter tyres not being available in that size, and they were not certain what size steel wheels to advise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Just been searching for my query to Churchill in 2008 - unfortunately it doesn't appear that we have progressed much!!!!
| Boris wrote: |
Well the reply has arrived - failed to answer a single point in my view - my original email below
| Quote: |
Dear Mr Boris 
Thank you for your recent e-mail.
I have reviewed your policy details and can confirm the information given over the telephone, is correct. The steel wheels increase your compulsory excess from £50.00 to £300.00 and your premium by £75.55 for the remainder of the year.
Should you require any further help, please e-mail us or alternatively call the relevant telephone number below.
Yours sincerely
NAME Removed
Customer Service Assistant
Business Support
web: www.churchill.com
email: car.customer.service@churchill.com
car telephone no: 08456 033 550
fax number: 020 8313 5361
opening hours: 8am-9pm Monday to Friday
9am-5pm Saturday and Sunday
|
| Quote: |
Dear Sir/Madam
I would be grateful if you could provide clarification with regard to replacement wheels. On a recent phone call to you, I don't think I made my enquiry clear and the answer I was provided with seemed somewhat confusing.
What I would like to do, is to swap the existing wheels on our car with a set of steel wheels. These wheels would be genuine VW parts supplied by a VW dealer. I intend to use these wheels with Winter Tyres during the winter months.
I was informed that this would mean an increased premium of £75 per annum and an increase in the excess. When I queried what this was for, I understood the answer to be along the lines of "to cover the increased market value of the vehicle".
This would seem somewhat extreme, given the total cost of 4-wheels is £228. Surely the same does not apply when fitting new tyres, which in total cost over £400.
Winter Tyres have been shown to provide better performance during winter months, to the extent they are mandatory in many European countries. With steel wheels being, in my view, far less desirable than alloys, I would argue I am taking positive steps to reduce my risk of accident and/or theft. Hence the suggestion that my premium should increase is somewhat puzzling?
If this is indeed the case then I shall abandon the idea.
I assume that simply fitting Winter Tyres to my existing wheels is not something you need to be notified of? I would be grateful if you could confirm this.
Regards
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Samerberg Sue, that whole business of charging you extra because you have the temerity to leave the country always strikes me as risible as well. Not a lot you can do about any of it though, given that you have to have motor insurance. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Hells Bells, Boris, I really do think it is time that the motoring organisations made a concerted effort to kick the OFT into action. Every car that is available on the roads in the UK is also available (albeit in left-hand drive) here in mainland Europe. The past sequence of winter weather the UK has experienced is indicative that winterising of cars is a prime safety concern, yet the insurance companies are making a pig's ear of it. Their ignorance and/or greed is costing peoples lives and also causing the UK roads to be unsafe in the winter months.
To be honest, I'm completely gob-smacked that they are able to get away with this. The AVERAGE UK winter temperature is 6°C which means that many places are below that for long periods of time. Combine that with the typical weather experienced in the lowlands of England (let alone that of the higher areas as well as Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland) driving on summer compounds on wet cold road surfaces is lethal. The tyre manufacturers are unanimous in the road holding/braking performance of the difffering compounds used for summer and winter tyres. This is supported by all the major motoring agencies, so why oh why do you as consumers allow yourselves to be ripped off in such a blatent manner. The insurers should be increasing the premiums of those who do not winterise their vehicles as they are the danger to themselves and other road users.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Samerberg Sue, Most manufacturers will give in their handbooks a choice of tyres that can be fitted and deemed manufacturer specified by any insurance company, my own Land Rover has 20" wheels and in winter i change the tyre to one as specified in the handbook, albeit that i move down to a 19" wheel size and my car is supplied from factory with either as standard, i do not need to inform my insurance company, if i had fitted a tyre or wheel away from the specification then i should. Anybody unsure should just call the manufacturer and ask them which tyre they would reccomend or specification of same.
The one question always asked when buying an insurance policy is "has your car been modified from factory standard" this is there catch out clause and best response is "not to my knowledge"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
leedsunited, my brother-in-law did just that and was still unable to fit a suitable winter tyre. He tried in September and October this year, well in advance of bad weather. We got a friend in the business to look for him last winter without success.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Hells Bells, Interesting, if to say the wheels are manufactureres standard wheels and have not been changed then i am bemused as to why you could not find a tyre, I can understand it could be hard to find one in the UK but not one anywhere else in Europe that could not be shipped in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"leedsunited, my brother-in-law did just that and was still unable to fit a suitable winter tyre. He tried in September and October this year, well in advance of bad weather. We got a friend in the business to look for him last winter without success. "
I'm fairly sure that you can fit 205/55/17 to the Mazda 5, at least 1/2 dozen choices of Winter tyres on mytyres.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
leedsunited, I think he said that he had already done so, but thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
leedsunited, begs the question I stated at first - why is preparing your car to be safe on winter roads deemed a modification by insurers in the UK when in every other northern European country it is seen as a necessity? You are penalised by the same insurance companies in Europe if you DO NOT winterise your vehicle! They refuse to pay anything other than third party costs, and then sometimes not all of those.
As long as the UK public suck it up, there will always be this silliness. I was insured at different times by the Allianz, Zurich, and Axa in the UK and again here in Germany. There were problems with my UK insurer (Allianz) at first (switching from alloy hubs to steel, all weather S+M tyres to Winter snow + ice tyres), but when I spoke with the representatives of the SAME company here, they cleared up the bother in no time. All at no extra cost or penalty.
I'm currently insured with the ADAC, so the equivalent to either the AA, RAC or Green line. My premium would only increase if as a result of not being equipped for winter weather I was involved in an accident. Even if I am completely innocent in terms of the actual accident, it is deemed that by not having tyres suitable for the prevailing road conditions, I have in part contributed to my predicament.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Samerberg Sue, I totally agree. I looked into getting some winter tyres for my car as it's not easy to drive in snow and ice at all. There are no winter tyres available in the same size as the summer tyres so I would need to get replacement wheels and tyres (which makes the changing process easier anyway). But my insurance company actually refused to continue cover if I changed the wheels from the manufacturer's specification alloys to steel wheels as they considered it a 'performance enhancement'. I'm really not sure how heavier, high profile and narrower wheels constitute a 'performance enhancement'. I gave up eventually and bought some 'all-weather' tyres in the normal size. To be honest they don't really seem any different to summer tyres on icy roads, but they work very well in the wet.
The UK motor insurance industry really needs to get to grips (pun intended!) with this. After a succession of harsher winters, winter tyres are slowly becoming more readily available in the UK, but the insurance industry are making it very difficult for us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Samerberg Sue, I totally agree with you (it must be christmas), i do not see why anybody should be penalised for effectivally making their car safer, i think the manufacturers and insurance companies need to get it sorted as you say in many European countries it is the law so it should not be very difficult.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
queen bodecia,
| Quote: |
| There are no winter tyres available in the same size as the summer tyres so I would need to get replacement wheels and tyres |
I am not saying you are incorrect but i just cannot belive that there are no winter tyres available in the same size as your factory fitted standard tyre, up until very lately the major tyre retailers did not carry this type of stock and it was left to specialist retailers to fill the small demand, can you post the make and model of car and current tyre size for reference it may be that the power of SH's can find some out there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
leedsunited, It seems the Insurers do everything they can to give initial low quotes to get the business, and then hit us with additional premiums and increases with any excuse that we give them...
And we can't raise the question without letting them know what we're thinking of...
So, whilst I agree, you shouldn't be penailised for making the car safer, you can't argue that your plan signals that you intend to drive in dificult conditions and that, although you don't want to damage your alloys, changing to steel wheels indicates that you think some damage is likely...
A clasic Catch 22 situation... and you can't win...
It's similar to pricing the young drivers out of the insurance market and then complaining that all the young drives are in-insured...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
WayneC, I agree it is a complete farce, but not just limited to winter tyres, wife had 3 points awarded to her 2 years ago, i phoned and notified her insurance company and they said no increase to the premium but had they not been disclosed and subsequently down the line she was involved in an accident they could use it as an excuse to not pay out.
The same can be said if you fit a tyre that is not as specified or reccomended by the manufacturer, speed rating is the one that catches most people out, example been you fit a "W" rating but the manufacturer specifies a "Y" rating, both are rated at a speed far in excess of any UK speed limits but the insurer could use it as a means of declining a claim. I had a situation where the manufacturer declined some warranty work on my stearing because i had the wrong rating on my fitted tyres, changed them to the correct rating and model and had the work carried out no problem.
I also do not get why you have to change to steel wheels, alloys can have winter tyres fitted same as any other type.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
leedsunited, sounds a similar situation to that of my BIL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
FWIW I tried to get steel wheels for my car to fit winter tyres on. It is a Mercedes and I have seen loads like it in Switzerland with steels.
However the UK dealer couldn't, or wouldn't supply them. In the end they sold me some alloys with winter tyres fitted. They are a smaller diameter than the standard wheels, not by much, so the tyres are higher profile.
I spoke to my insurer (Admiral) who did not make a charge even though technically I had changed wheel sizes.
I thought about sourcing steels in Holland or Belgium through friends there but I just couldn't face the struggle with the insurance company if I had fitted wheels from a non-main-dealer source.
(Oh and did I mention that immediately after I had them fitted, we had the warmest November since dinosaurs walked the earth?)
Edit: I wanted steels because (i) I didnt want to submit my alloys to winter road salt etc and (ii) i thought they would be cheaper than a second set of alloys. But it seems nobody in the UK buys a Mercedes without alloys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
leedsunited, winter tyres are higher profile and narrower than summer tyres. So if you have low fat alloys you are likely to need slimmer smaller wheels for winter tyres. They could of course be another set of alloys but steel wheels are cheaper and heavier. I'm in the process of changing my car, so it's not really relevant to me now. I'll probably end up doing all the research again when I get my new car and come to the same conclusion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| leedsunited, winter tyres are higher profile and narrower than summer tyres. So if you have low fat alloys you are likely to need slimmer smaller wheels for winter tyres. They could of course be another set of alloys but steel wheels are cheaper and heavier. I'm in the process of changing my car, so it's not really relevant to me now. I'll probably end up doing all the research again when I get my new car and come to the same conclusion. |
I'm not sure that anything said is actually correct. I could fit the same diameter and profile winter tyres to my X type Jaguar as my summer fitment. I chose not to because I do need the chance to fit chains if needed as in Austria so I have gone down a size as is described in the handbook. They are genuine Jag alloys, as it happens.
Are steels wheels heavier. I don't think they are although I don't have a steel Jag wheel to compare. OK, yes, they probably are cheaper.
Along with Leedsunited, I cannot believe there are no tyres in all the most popular sizes. Don't just look on the retailers' sites, check with the manufacturers sites. They will show all the available sizes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
elj221c, this was what I was told when I tried several different tyre retailers to find winter tyres for my car. Maybe they fed me duff information, but I had no reason to disbelieve them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| leedsunited, winter tyres are higher profile and narrower than summer tyres. So if you have low fat alloys you are likely to need slimmer smaller wheels for winter tyres. They could of course be another set of alloys but steel wheels are cheaper and heavier. I'm in the process of changing my car, so it's not really relevant to me now. I'll probably end up doing all the research again when I get my new car and come to the same conclusion. |
Correct on profile but that does not mean that you cannot fit them to your standard fitted alloys as the rim size and width remains the same.
I can get snow tyres for my Range Rover standard fit 20 inch alloys in exactly the same profile as my summer tyres but I choose to fit a set of 19 inch wheels as I bought them from a friend with snow tyres already on them and the set were cheaper than buying the tyres on there own, the alloys are genuine Land Rover, the tyres fitted are exactly the same size as non winter and it works out cheaper in the long run as I am only using them for 6 months at a time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
