 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello  s
I hope you can help me with this dilemma.
a few weeks ago I bought boots from a local shop owned by a friend of mine, His fitter measured my feet, and in a nutshell I bought a pair of Nordica speedmachine X95 W size 24.0. but are they too big? my normal shoe size is 5 but depending on make 4 and a half or 5 and a half could also be my range.
I was very happy with his service and he heated them up and I wore them for about 15 mins partly stood in skis and partly walking around the shop, I have been given a voucher to use at the dry slope to test them. 
Then one of my daughters friends came to visit, He works in a shop in Verbier every year. I was preening and showing them off, but he said they are too big. He removed the liner and said I should only have space for one finger behind my heel when my toe is touching the front of the boot, also he did the lower ankle clip up to the tightest notch and said that very quickly the liner would compress and that I would be left with no adjustment. He commented that many shops sell boots too big because people want comfort and they will not buy a boot that fits as tightly as neccesary. 
Now I dont know what do do, should I go back to the shop, I trust them and dont think they would sell me boots that were not right but now I am doubting be cause he was so insistant that they are too big. 
I am a 1 week a season skiier, confident on blue runs, prefer the challenge of reds and brave the odd black in good nic. My old boots were second hand salomon junior flex 24.5 and were very comfey but I started too feel like I needed more security at the ankle, they also might have caused damage to my big toe nails as the last two years I have had a strange problem that grows out over the following months, I did not have painful toes and I do clip my nails short before skiing but It is a possible explanation.
Sorry for the waffling on, please please help
Thanks in anticipation
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Update
Just sat here, in my boots, reading back over the long boot fitting thread at the top of this catagory, Oh no I just took the liner out and there appears to be much more than the 10-20 mm alowance CEM sugested way back in this thread.
What do you recommend I do next, I have not tried them on the dryslope yet. but they were thermally moulded.
I feel a bit awkward going back saying they are too big, the fitter has far more knowledge than me. How can this 5 times skiier argue the point? They have served me so well in the past, renting skis, discounts on purchases of ski gear.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you believe they might not suit then try to take them back before you wear them on a ski slope. Once they has been used (new smell replaced by foot odour or shell scratched etc) they are worth less and so the shop will probably be more reluctant to take them back.
If it were me I'd try and get them changed for a smaller size even if it ended up costing a little it'd be cheaper in the long run.
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youngeratheart, it's a tricky one. I'm a UK 7-8 or EU41 shoe size. My old ski boots which I wore happily for over 15 years were a size 27.0. They were comfy and lightweight and I had no problems at all with them until the clip broke and I had to fasten them with gaffa tape.
So when I finally bit the bullet and bought new boots last year I bought another pair size 27.0 and they were agony. Not sure why, I just couldn't even walk in them. So after seeking some advice on here, I was told comprehensively that they were too big and that I was fastening them too tightly to compensate for this. They got sold on fleabay and I went to see a bootfitter. I now have boots size 25.5. They are slowly bedding in and although they have never felt painful, they have always felt crazily tight to me. My feet are also much much colder. I think in the old boots all the extra space was allowing air to circulate around my feet to keep them warmer.
So I guess the right answer is to see a bootfitter and get some expert advice. But I'm a bit of a heathen, I still preferred the way my old big rear entry boots felt. I've never been able to recapture that comfort and warmth!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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youngeratheart, Take them back, tell them they feel too loose. Simple.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hi youngeratheart, just do as SMALLZOOKEEPER, says.
I had written you a rather long rambling reply but it then disappeared so won't try again! Enough to say that for the first few days of my new boots last year, fitted by CEM, it was agony to get them on and then they were fine and just sooo much better being a really neat fit. Something like 22.5 or 22.5 for my size 3 feet. Had zipfits fitted as well and even after the number of weeks that you know we ski I am not on the tightest clips at all.
Good luck.
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youngeratheart, I understand why you feel a bit hesitant going back to the shop - they ARE the experts after all  and have fitted them to YOU - but the boots aren't comfortable and only you can ascertain that for sure.
My husband had a similar problem in that he bought some boots in a ski shop in France, during the summer a couple of years ago. The 'fitting' (he now realises) was pretty non-existent, and he had excruciating pain when he tried to ski in them the following winter. At the suggestion of many on here, we went to Graham at Rivington Alpine near Bolton, which is localish for us. Graham explained that his boots were at least 1 size too big in the foot and too high/tight in the calf, which was causing the cramp-like pain (husband has very muscular calves). Graham fitted him with new boots (the others are being sold on Ebay ) - a process which took around 3 hours, and like you, included the thermal moulding. However, Graham also said that the real test would be skiing in them and was very clear that if there was any further discomfort, Mr A was to go back and they could be tweaked. He was able to ski for the first time in several years, but did still have some slight discomfort after skiing for a while. We have an appointment in a couple of weeks for some small adjustments, free of charge, as good bootfitters want you to be completely happy and comfortable.
If you feel that the boots are uncomfortable, then don't ski in them and go back to the shop and explain. It's not unreasonable
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Thankyou for your speedy replies, as you can tell I was online half the night worried about it.
This morning I called the shop and spoke to my friend, He has explained that I have probably been sized for a ''recreational fit'' and there might be good reason for the choice of size, however he is very happy to look at them when its conveinient to us both, as I didnt actually even try a smalller size. He says it is allways better to get the smallest size suitable when possible and that his fitter can only rely on my answers on the day I tried them in the shop. All fair comment. I would add that they are very comfortable, and I was very happy with them untill doubts were raised in my mind.
I have just broken in some very expensive riding boots, they were uncomfortable during the proccess but now are bliss, having said that they were never painful.
I dont want to find myself crippled on holiday as it is pleasure I am after from skiing.
I have a bonkers busy week so I dont think I'll be able to get them looked at untill next. I'll keep you posted on any developments.
Thanks all, feel happier now. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd get a second opinion from elsewhere (if possible)
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think they sound too big, and based on how long the nordica shells are on that range i would think a 23/23.5 would be a better fit, impossible to say on line as i cannot see the boot and your foot in it
when you put your foot into the correct size it will probably feel a bit cramped at first clip the boot up (upper clips first instep clip last) then flex a few times...give it 10 mins for the liner to warm up and your foot to move into the back of the boot, when standing upright you will probably feel your toes at the front and they should move away a bit when you flex forward.... the most important thing is that the heel and ankle are really secure as this is the area which holds your foot back in the boot and if there is space here then the foot will move as soon as the liner has packed down
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ive got the same problem (about 25mm behind heel) and afetr suggestions from a thread a month or so ago, i went back (2 years / weeks use) and the shop is talking about putting heel grip things and more foam in (currently sourcing). Question is - is this just a cobble together to stop me moaning or will it actually solve the problem (wriggle room now everywhere except across ball of my foot)? Im concerned that it might change the dynamics of the boot, and kinda feel basically if they sold me a boot too big (Im a bit hazy with what i said but was probbably a combo of wanting something that could let me progress towards offpiste, but not super tight) they should foot the bill for giving me the ones they should have in the first place. just dont know how much i have a right to assert myself - appreciate any advice
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I bought a pair of Nordica speedmachine X95 W size 24.0. but are they too big? my normal shoe size is 5 but depending on make 4 and a half or 5 and a half could also be my range.
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My boots are 24 (fitted by CEM). My normal shoe size is 6/7 (depending on style and make) but I have horrible feet - hammer toe and bunions - and the shell was tweaked to accommodate them. I skied in them all last winter and they were very comfortable till towards the end, when another lump (on my foot) was growing a bit and getting rubbed. The shells have now been tweaked to accommodate that too, and whilst I was there I also got zipfits (as you do......).
I always wore substantially bigger boots in the past (supposedly properly fitted....) It's astonishing what can be done if they're "tweaked to measure" and you trust the fitter to know his trade. CEM told me they were essentially a "comfort fit" - because I stressed comfort was my priority. I think he'd have been squeezing me into a smaller one if I was a racer (ha ha).
Haven't skied in the zipfits yet, but am getting used to them doing the ironing. Doesn't hurt if you drop the iron on your toe.
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youngeratheart, I wear Nordicas and although I usually take a size 9.5 (44) my ski boots are a size 7 with a 305mm sole length. When standing or walking my toes touch the front but as soon as I get into a skiing position they slip back and I ski in comfort. I do have fairly narrow feet but I found that going for a tighter boot really increased both comfort and control on the mountian.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is it true that the .5 sizes are exactly the same shell size? ie 23.0 is the same shell size as 23.5? If so is the difference in the liner or the footbed?
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Yes, this is true. For example a 25.5 size boot has exactly the same size shell as a 25, the difference being that the liner/footbed of the 25 is a slightly higher volume. Over time this will pack down meaning that once broken in, there is essentially no difference between the two sizes. Supposedly the half sizes are only made available by manufactures as buyers expect them. You generally don't find the half sizes in racing boots.
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My friend at the shop made some calculation to work out the size but I didnt get it does anyone know what it is? I just googled Nordica size chart and could immediatly see that mine are on the big size. Surely all the dealers have these charts, dont they?
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It's really much better to ignore your shoe size, and any conversion charts that would indicate what mondo point (ski boot size) it would be equivalent to. Instead go by the size of the shell of the boot as your daughter's friend showed you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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shops have charts but the charts are so off line it is a waste of time, the measurer is just a starting point, it shows me how much motion there is in the foot between weight bearing (standing) and seated measurements, which is a help in deciding what level of footbed is required, it also gives a starting point for boot size ...but it is only a starting point
over the past few years boot manufacturers have played with the sizes, the thing everyone wants is loads of space round the toes...so they have been making boot s a little bit longer than they should be so that when you put your measured size on the boot feels great instant comfort out the box....GREAT if you ski 2-3 days a year, maybe a week but if you ski more than this then the liner will pack down very quickly and result in movement around the foot so....... 2-3 years down the line you will be tightening the boots up to the point of crushing the foot just to hold it still and probably looking for a new pair of boots
the ONLY way to truly size the boot is to put your foot in the shell and see how much space there is... I was told a couple of years back by a shop owner, and i qoute " when you have been fitting boots as long as we have you don't need to shell check as we know how they all fit"
this guy sells loads of oversize boots and i see loads of custom from his ex- customers
so, yes i wish the whole ski industry would "get it" and do a great job for all customers but until that point there will be good and bad just like in every industry
i work occasionally for a company who offers training... the biggest problems we find are
1 shop owners are not willing to invest in staff training as a lot of staff will only stay for a season
2 when they do send staff to be trained the staff return to the store and the information gets either diluted or rejected by old school line managers who have been "fitting" boots for 20 years
anyway enough of a rant, good luck getting them sorted, ignor the size on the box get your foot in the shell and trust that..... the right size WILL feel too small when you put it on until it is correctly clipped , flexed and allowed to settle a bit
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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"Recreational fit"?!?? Eeeek, take em back!!! The long and short of it is this......you can buy boots cheap on the internet, but people pay more for boots in a shop for the advice and proper boot fitting service. My boots did hurt a tad the first holiday I had them, but once they were broken in, I can now ski all week long with no problems. If your skiing black runs, or skiing intermediate runs aggressively, you need a boot that is going to hold your feet firmly, meaning your skis will feel responsive. Big boots = Bad news. Booooo. Good luck!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My boots were bought in Whistler a few years ago. The guy checked me out and eventually said "this is the boot for you". I wasn't sure as it felt a bit tight. I asked to try a bigger size. He said I could try them but he wouldn't sell them to me. I bought the smaller boots and after one adjustment after a couple of hours skiing they have been fantastic! So glad I didn't get the bigger boots!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scarpa, Eeeek I have Lange Concept 95's (http://www.altimusonline.co.uk/images/LB73000.jpg) with a 329 foot on a mondo 28.5 and I normally take size 10 in a shoe. Mine are starting to sound too big. I also seem to have them on the last rung, or second last, of the adjustment to get them tight. I never got them fitted apart from try them on and he stuck a dual hair drier down for 15 mons then I stood in them for 10. Not exactly fitting
Are mine too big?
cheers
Bob
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just measured my feet. 28.5cm Phew
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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glasgowcyclops, And the internal length of the boot will be around 305mm, they sound maybe too long, but certainly too voluminous.
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I got mine at SMALLZOOKEEPER's gaff. They were fitted fairly tight but within 3 trips I was on the third (and on occasion fourth) position on the clips. Jeez - they don't half give feedback, fit lovely, comfy and snug and don't slop around when I put pressure through the skis. Not that comfy to walk in though (I've even taken to wearing cat tracks) but then again, I don't spend much time walking on a ski hol 
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maybe if boot fitting is so chronic in the ordinary shops where most people buy boots, the only way they are gonna learn is en masse boot returns, otherwise if everyone just keeps a few years then has to buy new ones, we are paying a premium for the wrong (expensive) gear, surely? and they will just keep not triningt he staff properly and keep on with what they are doing. OOh, Im coming over all revolutionary 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bitoffluff, some of the problem is the public at large what instant comfort, and when a boot feels tight they want a bigger one.... so who is to blame, the shop for giving them what they want????
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CEM, My gut reaction when fitted at the boot fitting day was exactly that. I had the confidence in those present to go with the pro advice....and it worked a treat. Kramer was not so lucky AIR, so even the pros make errors of judgement. I think good skiers can take a tighter fit as they get there weight forward more which pushes the heel back in the boot.
Mine knack when walking (in the toe area) but are fantastic to ski in (this means I am a good skier )
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My 10 year-old son was complaining that one of his boots hurt - they had been fine on the previous days. Investigation revealed that a pair of underpants was down the back, attached to the velcro on the gaiter of his salopttes. We solved the source of discomfort without the need to consult a boot-fitting professional
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Anniepen, Someone posted on here that he skied with a bottle of contact lens solution in his boot un-noticed 
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You know it makes sense.
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Boredsurfing, I think even my 10 year old would have noticed that!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cos your contact lenses were dirty?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, My mate used to stick hin contact lenses in his trainers when he came in drunk and fish them out in the morning
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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youngeratheart, good luck getting it sorted
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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youngeratheart, Now that you have the boots grab a lesson on the first day and try to get the backwards stance sorted. Have fun
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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youngeratheart, glad that it has turned out ok - I must go and see the new shop, so much closer now! Are you back to Morgins this year?
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FAQ
dispite several on my last 2 trips I still do it and it irritates the hell out of me. I am not scared so WHY 