 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bones, Pressured/weighted is when the ski is in contact with the snow and is taking some or all of your weight.
To illustrate if you are standing still on a flat section and you pick up one foot slightly and twist it back and forth making snow angels you are pivoting that ski. The ski you are standing on which is supporting you is weighted or pressured.
care to have a go at one yourself 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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P155ed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
If this doesnt descend into chaos it might actually be useful as a sticky.
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Scarpa, less than an hour, a new record, thanks for your contribution it was hilarious.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Murdoch, actually Megamums idea but after another thread that i started went down the toilet due to arguements over technical terms i thought i would try to be constructive instead of whining about the problem.
avalement and braquage creeps in from time to time so i thought i would stick it in.
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| Quote: |
* What's stacking? I think it means a stable body stance, but am not sure.
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My understanding from the discussions is that it is the position that requires the least amount of muscular work to maintain because the body is balanced at each joint but again I'm not sure, and am not quite sure if the position varies through different turns.
For steering I have heard of foot steering and leg steering is this correct? and is there any difference?
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| Quote: |
For steering I have heard of foot steering and leg steering is this correct? and is there any difference?
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yes they are two very different things, i will add that to the list
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, "avalement" I will confess to using myself. Braquage I reckon is an US term but I have no idea how it translates - sorry!
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David Murdoch, braquage is a french term and in the usa they say "pivot slips". It means to swing or turn against.
Braquage - a turning excercise whose objective is to maintain a descent directly down the fall line whilst turning the skis back and forth across the fall line.
note to self add "fall line" 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, I appreciate the restraint.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
* What's stacking? I think it means a stable body stance, but am not sure.
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AIUI
Stacking - aligning ones body so that it is in the best position to resist forces it is subject to...
Generally this means you want the bones to be doing the work they can and not the muscles... also not twisting bits that would create a weak point...(ie allowing body to be in stronger mechanical positions)...
So knee angulation is a weaker position as bones are not "stacked" against the force of the turn...
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, I think arcing is what the USSA decided to bring in to replace "carving" because so many people used the word carving for "getting my skis on edge at some point" or similar versions of that....
So it also includes the lack of redirection in transition... but stuff me if I know how you write that technically (hence why I always use arc-2-arc as it describes that concept better for me)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Scarpa, Shhh!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Great effort, skimottaret. What is your vision for how the definitions will get filled in and agreed upon? I think the important thing here is not that people get their own way in the exact final form of a definition, but that a standard of some sort is created so consistency can happen in usage here at Snowheads.
Now we just need to set up the site software so that each time one of the glossary terms are used in a post, the word, phrase or acronym turns into a link to the glossary definition.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret,
1) (in all seriousness) should there be two columns of answers, one for Europe, one for North America? I have observed what seems to be something of a division of terminology between the two continents.
2) (in less seriousness) I'm having particular difficulty with
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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little tiger, good effort how about
Stacking - aligning the joints in ones body so that they are in the best position to resist forces the skier is subject to. Stacking is accomplished by utilising the skeletal frame to maintain a position which minimises the use of the muscles.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, Stacking - Agreed. Next. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Stacking - aligning the joints in ones body so that they are in the best position to resist forces the skier is subject to. Stacking is accomplished by utilising the skeletal frame to maintain a position which minimises the use of the muscles. |
Sorry if this is tangential to the glossary, but why (if I've got this right) does non-use of muscles=most efficient resistance? Please - seriously - feel free to ignore this question if it is not possible to explain it to a non-physicist.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| FastMan wrote: |
Great effort, skimottaret. What is your vision for how the definitions will get filled in and agreed upon? I think the important thing here is not that people get their own way in the exact final form of a definition, but that a standard of some sort is created so consistency can happen in usage here at Snowheads.
Now we just need to set up the site software so that each time one of the glossary terms are used in a post, the word, phrase or acronym turns into a link to the glossary definition. |
Hadnt really thought it through but I guess i was thinking listing all the hard to understand terms and let people argue over definitions, periodically putting up a "standard "definition once it seems to have stablised. I guess i get to be the dictator otherwise it will never settle down. (unless you want to volunteer )
I also think it would be useful to have an illustration, photo or example coupled to the definition.
Once a "reasonable" definition is roughly agreed upon I will then edit it into the opening post. Hopefully a moderator can then make this a sticky and it will appear at the top of the BZK forum.
The Wiki never gets looked at and if this actually produces some fruit there may be a way to link terms used in threads to a definition but i will leave that to the software gurus...
I recon if this effort is successful this thread may get too messy and we may need to split off individual terms for discussion and then consolidate answers here.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| skimottaret wrote: |
| Stacking - aligning the joints in ones body so that they are in the best position to resist forces the skier is subject to. Stacking is accomplished by utilising the skeletal frame to maintain a position which minimises the use of the muscles. |
Sorry if this is tangential to the glossary, but why (if I've got this right) does non-use of muscles=most efficient resistance? Please - seriously - feel free to ignore this question if it is not possible to explain it to a non-physicist. |
you dont get as tired
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Hurtle, Skeletal strength is much stronger than relying on Muscular strength. Think of a Weightlifter trying to lift a bar, he tries to position his body so that the load is transmitted to the ground through his skeleton, rather than using his muscles, or if you carried something heavy it would be easier to put it on your shoulder rather than hold it in your arms.
Is the explanation OK?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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a skier in an angulated position
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Spyderman, makes sense to me, anyway. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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'Inclination' is stronger, 'Angulation' is faster edge to edge.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| skimottaret, I think arcing is what the USSA decided to bring in to replace "carving" because so many people used the word carving for "getting my skis on edge at some point" or similar versions of that.... |
I agree, and I'm not sure we really need "arcing". Who walks into a ski shop and asks for "a pair of arcing skis"?
So how about:
Carving - a turn on a completely engaged ski edge, where the tail of the ski follows the tip throughout the turn radius. In general terms, it is the fastest and most efficient turn possible.
It's a marketing thing really. "Carving" has become such a popular concept that everyone wants to think they're doing it - even FIS moguls judges!
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To tell the truth, I'd never heard of 'Arcing' apart from Welding or dodgy electrics. 
'Arcing' - Room 101.
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You know it makes sense.
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In climbing terms... resting on a straight arm is much less tiring than using muscular strength with a bent arm as the bone structure takes lot of the strain rather then expending energy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I for one would like to see this made to work - thanks for kicking things off skimottaret, I hadn't considered the possibility of linking threads mentioning the term to the master list, but it can certainly be made to work - look for example to what happens as I type 'the EoSB' I've never yet done it without the correct link being made. Must a bit of trickery on someones (Admin's?) part. It could end up as quite a work in progress though. Already, I am thinking things like 'compeletely engaged ski edge' - that must mean the whole edge of the ski in contact with the snow- yes? and a turn where the tail of the ski follows the tip througout the turn radius made me then wonder about the turns where this didn't happen - hadn't ever thought about where the tail of the ski might naturally end up in a turn.
I agree too that it would be nice as a sticky. As for Scarpa I think we had better send him back to the playground with his teddy bear. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Murdoch, Crossover / Crossunder are not exclusive North American terms, they are widely used worldwide in racing circles.
Is also very closely linked to the following terms: Retractions turns, Extension turns, Up-unweighting, Down-unweighting (and terrain un-weighting for completemess)
Crossover & Crossunder are terms used when referencing BoS (Base of Support) and CoM (Centre of Mass) to each other.
So - in a crossover transition, the CoM generally rises and crosses over the BoS (joints are extended as the skis go flat), frequently seen on the flatter sections of a GS course.
In a crossunder transition, the BoS moves under the CoM, the CoM generally stays low (joints are flexed as the skis go flat), frequently seen in tight slalom gates.
PS: Avalement.
Apart from the usage in Amsterdam, the is still widely used in France and Canada, when talking about bumps/moguls, and when doing certain drills (eg: bend & stretch turns, avalement)
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 15-11-07 1:28; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hurtle wrote: |
skimottaret,
1) (in all seriousness) should there be two columns of answers, one for Europe, one for North America? I have observed what seems to be something of a division of terminology between the two continents. |
Maybe four columns:
1. British English ("jolly good chaps, this piste has just been bashed")
2. N American English ("FKNA dudes, this trail has just been groomed, now we can't schralp the gnar")
3. Antipodean English ("fair dinkum, just bought meself a new pair of stocks")
4. French, German, Italian ski terms which have crossed over into English (e.g. braquage, Schuss, sastrugi)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I know this one will irritate Martin Bell, but arcing is being used more and more these days to indicate a "clean" or "pure" carve.
Mainly because the term "carve" is being used less and less to indicate a clean/pure carve(eg: railroad tracks), and increasingly used to describe a turn that comprises a large amount of edging and getting performance out of the ski (rebound, storing/releasing energy etc.), even in racing circles.
As LT says above, there is no ambiguity when saying "I want to see arc to arc turns"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| the term "carve" is being used less and less to indicate a clean/pure carve(eg: railroad tracks), and increasingly used to describe a turn that comprises a large amount of edging and getting performance out of the ski (rebound, storing/releasing energy etc.), even in racing circles. |
veeeight, I didn't know you moved "in racing circles", but I do agree with your above statement.
The problem with the term "carving" is that it's become a victim of its own success and now suffers through over-use. (Not unlike the resort of Whistler in some ways )
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I move in mysterious ways, fast and slow but try not to be circular
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Count me in the camp that considers carving a pure/clean "tail following tip" event. If the turn has any intended suplimentary steering/rotary introduced, regardless of the amount, in my mind it's a steered turn.
An arc to arc turn is a carved turn with no rediection/pivot added at the start of the turn, before carving is begun
"Does she carve her turns?".
"Yes, but she does a little pivot to start them."
or
"No, she doesn't. She just thinks she does. Actually, they're a bit steery."
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 15-11-07 3:16; edited 3 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Another word to add:
TRANSITION; The period of time, and the manner in which, one turn is brought to an end and a new turn is begun.
Which supports the following definitions:
ILE - Acronym for the term "Inside Leg Extension". A transition which is initiated by pushing down on the old inside (uphill) foot, and slightly extending the old inside leg. This extension disrupts the skiers state of balance, and causes the Center of Mass to begin moving across the skis.
OLR - Acronym for the term "Outside Leg Relaxation". A transition which is initiated by relaxing the old outside (downhill) leg. This relaxation disrupts the skiers state of balance, and causes the Center of Mass to begin moving across the skis.
RETRACTION - A transition in which both legs are relaxed, and the skis are allowed to pass unrestricted under the body.
WEIGHTED RELEASE - Formerly called "The White Pass Lean". A transition made famous by American ski racer Steve Mahre in the early 1980's. The old outside (downhill) leg carries all the skiers weight through the entire transition, and the new turn is initiated by simply rolling that ski over onto it's downhill edge and starting the new turn on that same ski. Weight is transferred to the other (new outside) ski somewhere around the apex of the new turn.
Which now brings up another term that should be included.
APEX - The point during a turn at which 1/2 of the entire direction change that turn will produce has been completed.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 15-11-07 3:10; edited 1 time in total
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| skimottaret wrote: |
a skier in an angulated position
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This picture is excellent. Perhaps add following text?: Articulating a joint such that the body segments below and above that joint are no longer aligned, but instead form an angle at the joint. Used to manipulate the position of the skiers Center of Mass, for the purpose of managing balance. Two common forms are knee angulation, and hip angulation.
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FAQ
