 Poster: A snowHead
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Just a question, did anyone going to the states last year try the new BCA avalanche bag? If you did please could we hear what you thought of it. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Apparently there is no ski carry strap...
Which is a really limiting factor for an off-piste pack.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Haggis_Trap, yup.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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from their website
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(Mon Aug 16 20:53:58 UTC+0100 2010) info (mod) said:
Jaap- Currently we do not have the certifications to ship packs with full canisters to Europe. We are working on meeting these specifications by next season.(Mon Aug 16 14:13:07 UTC+0100 2010) Jaap said:
Hi Guys,
Any chance the Float will be coming to Europe before next winter
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| The new Float packs will feature ski straps and a hydration system, increasing the price for the 2011 model. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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are these bags going to be put on the same " recommended" (should that be legal requirement ?) kit list as the shovel probe transceiver combo etc, in the future ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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what with the increase in numbers now venturing off piste ( snowboards/ fat skis etc ) , and fatal incidents happening not too far off the beaten track, shouldnt manafacturers be promoting mounatincraft more robustly ( or are they?).
I will be buying one of the bags. for the added reason i may get into a situation when someone just jumps in above me on a very welcoming pitch !
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limegreen1, not much profit in mountaincraft for manufacturers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't think any backcountry product supplier underemphasizes mountaincraft nor suggests their products are a fix all.
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mmm , a beautiful blue sky, open field off untracked powder.. a lone rider/skier, a big sales drive on the new bit of kit to take you there.
a little health hazard warning, like the ones you get on a fag packet ie mountaincraft shovel probe transceiver and avalanche bag required !
third party litigation is on its way...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob" I don't think any backcountry product supplier underemphasizes mountaincraft nor suggests their products are a fix all. "
I agree. but when you go to a retail shop or ski rental to buy/pick up skis and go for a pair of all mountain skis or fatties as they are easier to use in powder. you will find the average punter going off the side to try them out. I have never heard of any holiday maker being told that if you take these skis you must take these three things with you and know about etc etc.... oh and take this avalanche bag as well. .... Im sure the punter would hand the skis back and say no thanks. most definitely would not do the sale of all mountain skis and powder skis any favours
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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limegreen1, I don't think its ever been suggested that even in the US arguably the world leader in liability litigation that a shop has a duty to ensure you have all the other necessary kit and education before selling you some equipment which may be used in the backcountry.
Don't forget that most of modern fat skis had their genesis in US/Canada (even the Salomon Pocket Rocket I'd score as a Canadian rather than French led product) and its perfectly possible to ski inbound "off piste" there without significant safety training or gear.
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limegreen1, good grief. So I go to my local mountaineering shop, and get a super pair of rock-climbing shoes. Doesn't mean I can lead an E3 at Malham. Can't see getting skiing kit is any different. People should be expected to use common sense and buy gear that is appropriate to what they can sensibly be doing, and take into account for themselves what other kit and training/experience they may need..
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You know it makes sense.
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quick update on the BCA Float, it looks very unlikely they will be available in Europe for this coming season, they need certification as mentioned above.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Im not one for the blame culture. the responsibility lies with you.
but after a big snowfall you find the perfect entry point on the perfect pitch of untracked in bound off piste. you make your first turn and its what youve been waiting for. but unknown to you Dave and his missus have got their kids snowboards and some fatties and a sit ski and see you having a wail of a time below them and think come on lets go...it looks so soft and beautiful. They decide to all jump in and race to get to the bottom, and whooomp... there it goes !
hence my first post...should these bags be put on the list with the other three, and should that kit be made mandatory if it isnt already.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, People should be expected to use common sense and buy gear that is appropriate to what they can sensibly be doing, and take into account for themselves what other kit and training/experience they may need..
The biggest mistake is to assume . avalanches kill.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 3-09-10 12:24; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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limegreen1,
I'd imagine a two day avi trainning course would help the "inbetween the piste" skiers more than equipment, equipment that is not a legal requirement in most countries.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| limegreen1 wrote: |
| The biggest mistake is to assume avalanches kill. |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Must admit as "avalanche" didn't have a capital letter and there was a space after "asumme" I wasn't sure it a new sentence or not.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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livetoski, Just sent the same guy I spoke with last year an email to see what the situation is from them. He has some title Vice President sales, whatever that means. I will post his reply when I get it. It will be a shame if they cannot get them here for next season.
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limegreen1, DB, I was taking the p1ss 
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I did see a BCA Float in the end last winter. I was originally very interested in getting one for the SO. BCA couldn't guarantee delivery before we started skiing and she needed a pack so she went with an Avalung, with the ammount of touring we did in the end I think the decision was fine.
I saw a 2010 production model. Looked and felt very nice. Similar weight to my ABS. There was not a ski carry system, it wouldn't be hard to have one sewn on that's not the point on a $500 back pack. The rest of the pack looked pretty good.
I like the Float, once it has a decent ski carry option then it will be a contender, if that is done for 2011 then consider this pack strongly.
FWIW: I don't think of my ABS as a 'fail safe'. I like to think that I don't take any extra risks when navigating avalanche terrain because I'm wearing the pack. I bought the pack because there are times when I have slight concerns that my partners might not be able to rescue me if things do go wrong - and I don't mean experience wise, but for instance, I used to ski with a girl who was an awesome skier but not strong enough to dig me out of three meters of avalanche debris, so I want to be sat on top of it waving...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
limegreen1,
I'd imagine a two day avi trainning course would help the "inbetween the piste" skiers more than equipment, equipment that is not a legal requirement in most countries. |
You need both.
Do you only take safety percautions that are a legal requirement ?
Was going to debate which was more important for newbie off-piste skiers, but it doesn't work. You need both.
End of story.
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| Alan McGregor wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
limegreen1,
I'd imagine a two day avi trainning course would help the "inbetween the piste" skiers more than equipment, equipment that is not a legal requirement in most countries. |
You need both.
Do you only take safety percautions that are a legal requirement ?
Was going to debate which was more important for newbie off-piste skiers, but it doesn't work. You need both.
End of story. |
I have shovel, probe, transceiver and ABS rucksack but do more than just a bit inbetween the piste. If you tell people getting into offpiste skiing that they have to fork out for all the equipment and one weeks trainning they are unlikely to do it. Many (esp us brits) go for something material rather than a "training course for a weeks holiday". If they go on the trainning course first they will realize the importance of the equipment and being able to us it. It will also open their eyes to the real risks at which point one would hope they would buy the equipment and learn to use it or stay on the piste (esp during times of higher risk). I'd rather have more skiers being careful than many more skiing offpiste with equipment they don't know how to use or nothing at all.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, I agree with you. I never take people with me off piste without the gear, even a little way off piste anymore. But as I often have people new to off piste wanting to come and try it, I arrange for them to rent the basic arvi gear for a day.
Then if they like what they have done on that day, during the rest of the week they can keep on renting until they are hooked  . In our group there are always a few different transceivers, shovels etc. even arvi bags so they get to see some of what is out there and try stuff.
I also try to arrange some off piste arvi training with the pisteurs I know in Les Arcs and myself. That way before anyone has to buy anything they have a little bit of an idea of what it is all about. Training is the most important thing as without that, having the gear is a waste of time. Plus it might be me they have to dig out, but I really hope not 
And yes, this is all done for free, at least with us in Les Arcs. We just like sharing what we love with others. 
If anyone is paying to go off piste with an Instructor or guide, the person taking them in my opinion should always provide the gear as part of the package and give training in how it should be used. Even with the kids. Start them young and they might learn to be safe skiers when they are older.
Still waiting for a reply re. the BCA bag but will keep on at them till I get one.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 6-09-10 18:36; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowcrazy, I've sent an e-mail to a guy I know at BCA, I'm not sure about their European distribution. Hopefully he can answer your question...
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BCA is distributed in the UK by Anatom. Contact details on their website anatom.co.uk
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You know it makes sense.
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| DB wrote: |
I have shovel, probe, transceiver and ABS rucksack but do more than just a bit inbetween the piste. If you tell people getting into offpiste skiing that they have to fork out for all the equipment and one weeks trainning they are unlikely to do it. |
Everyone wins Shame that logic doesn't work for the scandibombs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowcrazy, parlor, snowrider,
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quick update on the BCA Float, it looks very unlikely they will be available in Europe for this coming season, they need certification as mentioned above.
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this was the answer from UK distributor regarding the BCA float it will not be available for this comig season
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Poster: A snowHead
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Great to see you guys are thinking about snow already! Livetoski is right that the Float 30 won't be available in the UK this season. To sell it in Europe, we have to get CE certification. This is done through the German third-party testing agency, TUV-Sud, and is a very long process involving lots of paperwork and expense (in addition to product testing). There's no way we'll have this done in time for the bulk of the season. However, we're already shipping here in North America ( http://www.backcountryaccess.com/blog ). The 2010-11 Float 30 has a nice diagonal ski carry system, a hydration-compatible sleeve, lighter materials, and stormproof zippers. We'd love to get you some this season, but need to get through your protectionism first 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bedgerly, Thanks for coming on and giving us the first hand info. Any idea on potential Euro/GBP pricing when you do get TUV approval?
Any BCA advice on how to handle airline carriage rules as this is a major issue for some users?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We haven't given our distributors an export price yet, so don't know what the retail price will be. This will be decided prior to the ISPO show next February.
Regarding transporting them on an airplane, it's a little ironic: IATA says it's OK to bring filled airbag cylinders on commercial aircraft, as long as it's approved by the individual carrier (so check with your preferred carrier). However, this could be a moot point: you'll never get a charged cylinder through airport security. So we advise discharging the cylinder and unscrewing the valve head from the cylinder. Carry this on board with you, so they can see the cylinder is empty. When you get to your destination, get the cylinder refilled at a BCA-approved refill center. We have those all over North America, but not yet in Europe. Come skiing here this season!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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bedgerly, thanks Bruce.
I'll say again that I haven't flown with my ABS in the US but had no trouble with a full cylinder of gas and the explosive handle from the UK to Canada and then a couple of times in Canada with no trouble. As it goes when I flew from the UK I also had 4 inflatable life jackets - each with a CO2 cartridge and 8 spare cartridges. I had to take the whole lot to security / over-size, they scanned the bags, read my print outs from IATA and permission from the carrier and let everything on with no problem. Who knows with the TSA and the US though...
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FAQ
Ill clarify that..
