there are loads of threads on flex / stiffness but not about whether you can increase the flex of a boot - so here goes (be kind, ive only ever owned 1 pair).
Can you alter the stiffness of a boot? If so, how?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Heard of people changing the boot tongue for a stiffer / more robust one. New sturdier liners and booster straps can also be used to increase stiffness / improve performance on ski boots.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
bitoffluff, good question. I've known friends cut away parts of the shell to achieve this, but that's not necessarily a good thing for two reasons:
1. Temperature can soften the flex, so if you increase the flex in cold temps and the temp goes up you may have a softer boot than you want.
2. It may cause structural fatigue to the shell.
Much better to have a boot with a brilliant flex adjustment system, such as the Salomon SX91, which was sold in huge numbers from 1984. PisteHors.com describes it thus: "A two clip rear entry boot with variable forward flex control it has been described as the best ski boot ever made."
A proper bootfitter will no doubt be along shortly but there are lots of things they can do to soften flex from removing bolts to cutting out material from the clog so the cuff moves more freely. As for stiffening - I seen the swappable tongues some manufacturer so assume an expert could rig something similar.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
full tilt boots have interchangeable tongues with different stiffnesses
as has been said, softening boots is a pretty standard job. stiffening them is harder and you can end up with a bit of a franken-boot - recall CEM showing me a job he was doing on some Scarpa AT boots which involved beefing them up in certain places using plastic from some old race boots IIRC. don't know how successful that turned out to be!
bitoffluff, Atomic boots have adjustments for stiffness, they are usually the race boots such as the Tech range
David E Goldsmith,
Quote:
brilliant flex adjustment system, such as the Salomon SX91
was that the sliding bar bit across the front of the boot where they were supposed to flex
on the other hand at the same time as the SX91 there were the Dachstein V4's with full spring controlled forward lean/angle, flex and torsion, plus cant adjustment, and a walk function, many boot brands are still trying to reinvent the same system that was around 25 years ago, from what I can see
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I now know that you can cut a 'v' into the back of the boot to soften the flex as its easier for the boot to flex with no material to compress. Some boots have this'v; moulded into the boot and come with flex 'switches' that allow this 'v' to be locked open stiffning the boot back up.
My new boots have variable flex obtained with the use of 2 allen bolts that lock the cuff more securely to the rest of the boot for a higher flex.
Amazing what you learn at a boot fitting
My daughters boots were 'softened' by cutting away and grinding some thickness away from the inside of the boot till she could properly flex them.
After all it is free
After all it is free
very useful info - im especially interested in lessening stiffness. already have Nordica SM8s and warm days things are fine on really cold days it feels like im getting bounced around by concrete in front of my boot which mean as soon as i try to flex i end up in the back seat. I actually ski better in my touring boots. the SM8s are only stiffness rating of 80 and theoretically this is bang on for my level of skiing (adv int), but im not sure that takes into account I am a total lightweight (52kg) without much leverage (ie ive got short legs, even relatively short for my diminutive 159cm)
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bitoffluff, You should be able to get the SM8's soffened, (I was under the impression that they were a 100 flex?) Im sure a bootfitter will be along shortly to advise but having just swapped in the last 10 days from a SM8 to a Salomon boot with a 120 flex I have to say that the 120 did not feel markedly stiffer in the fridge (my technique is normally that bad anyway ).
52kg....I can play top trumps on that at 88kg....with most weight up front but can see that the SM8 might be a little stiff, you could try a diet of pies and Guiness
I was told that 'flex' varies wildly across the companies.
Where is CEM when you need him
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
please do NOT cut a V in the back of your boots, whilst it may soften the lex it will kill any rebound, not sure how many pairs of Salomon X Waves were ruined by doing this.... all people did was follow the lines marked on the shell.
there are a number of ways you can soften a boot, removing material is the most common, taking plastic out of the V cuts at the sides of the shell and removing some material from the lower strap of the cuff will have a great effect, it does have to be done with care and make sure there are absolutely NO OVER CUTS (score marks made with a knife during the cutting) as this can cause the shell to split in time
one thing which may be worth trying first is under strapping the power strap... do the power strap up tightly round the leg and liner but make sure it is under the shell, this will give a smoother flex which can feel more dynamic and a little softer as you are fixed securely to the back of the shell, this will also eliminate the seat belt effect which can occur if the strap is round the shell
all this is assuming the boot size is correct, as a boot which is too big will not allow you to flex the cuff properly whatever you do to it
good luck
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CEM, what about stiffening boots? Is there anything to be done? The OH feels his new boots are too soft and is wondering what, if anything, can be done. Thanks.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sarah, yes, slightly harder than making them softer, but either bolting the cuff or inserting flex plates either in the front of the cuff or a carbon plate intot he back of it will stiffen a boot by various amounts
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
please do NOT cut a V in the back of your boots
In the absence of a smiley with a dunces cap I shall go and sit on the naughty step.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CEM, do zipfit liners increase stiffness. or is it an urban myth?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Mosha Marc, I though that as well.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'd imagine taking a knife to a boot yourself would be risky and paying someone to do it could reduce the risk but be costly and affect the waranty. The boot might not be flexing as you wish because it doesn't fit correctly so wouldn't it be better to visit a bootfitter and just buy a more suitable pair of boots?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mosha Marc, they do a bit, the materials are stiffer than those used in most stock liners so they make the boot a bit stiffer...how much ?? diffcult to say exactly but i would go on about 10% depending on the original flex of the boot
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
CEM wrote:
there are a number of ways you can soften a boot, removing material is the most common, taking plastic out of the V cuts at the sides of the shell and removing some material from the lower strap of the cuff will have a great effect, it does have to be done with care and make sure there are absolutely NO OVER CUTS (score marks made with a knife during the cutting) as this can cause the shell to split in time
one thing which may be worth trying first is under strapping the power strap... do the power strap up tightly round the leg and liner but make sure it is under the shell, this will give a smoother flex which can feel more dynamic and a little softer as you are fixed securely to the back of the shell, this will also eliminate the seat belt effect which can occur if the strap is round the shell
The latter bit, i think makes sense to a non-techie. I ll pass on the other suggestion to the guys in Blues and see what theyve got to say for themselves. Re size - length is OK (dont think you can get naything smaller than a 23.5 in a decent boot anyway (unless move up to racing boot)- well thats what the Blues guy said. Tjhough the linings packed down in the 4 weeks of use and not as snug as before so there gonna try some heel grip thing or some more foam. makes snese, but dont know if that will exacerbate the stiffness problem or maybe the feeling of greter stiffness maybe partly cos as you say it feel harder to flex a boot that doesnt fit well,
thanks for the suggestions y,all
I'd imagine taking a knife to a boot yourself would be risky and paying someone to do it could reduce the risk but be costly and affect the waranty. The boot might not be flexing as you wish because it doesn't fit correctly so wouldn't it be better to visit a bootfitter and just buy a more suitable pair of boots?
if only - they did fit season before last and were ace, but it seems to be a down trajectory. cant afford a new pair of £230 boots every couple of years - you offering ?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
a few companies make a 22 in a performance boot salomon make the idol and the instinct in a 22 lange make the RX range in 22, atomic make the hawx in a 22 and others make a suedo 22 which is really a 23 with a plug in the front and best avoided tecnica even make a 21.5 in the race 90 (a junior /light ladies race boot) so there is hope, have you done a shell check and seen how much space you have available in the boot??
makes me wonder when shops need you to go in with suggestions on how to do their job, but better that then just guessing
I'd imagine taking a knife to a boot yourself would be risky and paying someone to do it could reduce the risk but be costly and affect the waranty. The boot might not be flexing as you wish because it doesn't fit correctly so wouldn't it be better to visit a bootfitter and just buy a more suitable pair of boots?
if only - they did fit season before last and were ace, but it seems to be a down trajectory. cant afford a new pair of £230 boots every couple of years - you offering ?
Suspect the liners have packed out or the boots aren't right for your feet.
I've had custom fitted boots that felt great at first but packed out after around 30 days - the fitter had used the wrong shell. I paid for a new liner the company replaced the shell at their cost. Have you done a shell size check? Have you skied them for at least 10 weeks? Maybe a new liner is all they need. If so it could be that with a high quality liner (ca 150 GBP) they would be better than new.
What are the chances that you will be successful if you take a knife to your boots? What if that's not what they need? You might pay someone to do it and kill the performance of the boot.
If the boots aren't right for your feet (e.g. the shell doesn't fit) then you are flogging a dead horse. No amount of money is going to make them perform in the long term. My advice if the boots don't fit would be cut your loses and start again with someone who really knows how to select and fit a ski boot (inc footbeds, shell punching etc). Get such a person to comment on your existing boots. Yes it's hard (I've done it) and expensive but cheaper and better in the long run.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It's a sad indictment of ski boot manufacturing and design that this thread exists, 25 years after viable flex adjustment mechanisms had appeared on boots.
All the relevant patents expired years ago, so I presume there's no barrier to reviving and refining them.
Skiers, in this day and age, should not have to gamble their cash in warm ski shops where no objective assessment of a boot's (probably fixed) flexibility can be made.
After all it is free
After all it is free
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