 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
My girlfriend and I are thinking of going to Cervinia for a week and skiing into Zermatt as a day trip. She can go on any blue pistes in Tignes and some easy red ones (Double M in Tignes). We have heard that red pistes in Cervinia and Zermatt are easier relative to the ones in French resorts but we are not sure whether it will be easy enough for my girlfriend and crossing over involves with many red pistes.
Could anyone tell me whether crossing over to Zermatt and coming back to Cervinia will be too hard for her? She is especially scared to ski down red piste from the top of Matterhorn Glacier paradise which is very high and she believes that the piste will be too difficult for her.
If you think that she can do it, what are the easiest routes?
Thanks,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's about 3 years since I skied Zermatt and Cervinia. I can't remember anything being particularly tough in Cervinia, it's renowned for wide, well groomed, motorway pistes. However the run down from the top can be windy (possible wind blown pistes), cold and hard work because of the altitude.
I think the pistes in Zermatt are generally a bit tougher but higher up on Kleine Matterhorn isn't too bad at all although still very high with possible problems as above. Runs further down can be tougher from memory.
Don't forget grading is a little different too, no greens in Italy/Switzerland.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Everything down to Cervinia on the way back is easy. Everything on the glacier itself is easy. Down into Zermatt on the way is a bit more involved, but you can always ride the Kleine Matterhorn cable down if you're scared, and access e.g. the blues up at Findeln. One of which I remember being a bit 'not a blue'. Or the blues around Gornergrat, which are a piece of cake.
But don't worry about it. Even the black to/from Furgg/Furi (I forget) isn't really all that hard, except for the fact it gets busy. Zermatt seems to have this reputation of being really steep and difficult, but it's a load of balls really.
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kitjawatt, I've done most of my skiing in Tignes with one week in Zematt two years ago. I would say that the reds in Zermatt are largely on a par with the blues in Tignes and a good bit easier than some of the blues in Val D'Isere. Of course there are exceptions and there are a few tricky bits. Quite a lot of the runs in Zermatt get very narrow in places but I don't remember well enough to say whether this includes those coming down from the Cervinia crossing. I'm sure someone who does know will be along soon.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Feed her tequila/jaeger first, it'll all be fine...
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Glad to hear that it is easy on the cervinia side. Thank you for the video. The pistes look like easy blue in France. Are the red pistes on the glacier much harder than the ones in the video.
I also saw some of your photos of Zermatt town. It must be one of the prettiest alpine town in Europe. It looks lovely and that makes me want to do the day trip to Zermatt even more.
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| paulio wrote: |
Everything down to Cervinia on the way back is easy. Everything on the glacier itself is easy. Down into Zermatt on the way is a bit more involved, but you can always ride the Kleine Matterhorn cable down if you're scared, and access e.g. the blues up at Findeln. One of which I remember being a bit 'not a blue'. Or the blues around Gornergrat, which are a piece of cake.
But don't worry about it. Even the black to/from Furgg/Furi (I forget) isn't really all that hard, except for the fact it gets busy. Zermatt seems to have this reputation of being really steep and difficult, but it's a load of balls really. |
That's a great idea. I'll take the cable car down to Furi and find a way to Gornergrat. What a relief to hear that skiing in Zermatt is not that hard. Websites and my friends kept telling me that early intermediates should stay away from Zermatt. This should boost my girlfriend's confidence (hopefully). Thanks.
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| Bogusman wrote: |
| kitjawatt, I've done most of my skiing in Tignes with one week in Zematt two years ago. I would say that the reds in Zermatt are largely on a par with the blues in Tignes and a good bit easier than some of the blues in Val D'Isere. Of course there are exceptions and there are a few tricky bits. Quite a lot of the runs in Zermatt get very narrow in places but I don't remember well enough to say whether this includes those coming down from the Cervinia crossing. I'm sure someone who does know will be along soon. |
That's great that you have been to both Tignes and Zermatt. Do you remember what are the red pistes like on the zermatt glacier in general comparing to the blue and red in tignes?
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I tend to think a red piste can be bordering with a blue piste but it can be also bordering with a black piste. In another word it fails to be classified as a blue because it is slight more difficult or it fails to mark as a black because it is not difficult or steep enough or its steep section is too short.
My point is when someone tackling a red he/she has to be prepared that its standard can be close to a black run.
Personally I think the groomed red runs are pretty uniform in the Alps. There will be some easier while others are harder but red runs are the main piste in the majority of the European resorts. A skier should think if he/she has done red piste say on two large resorts he/she is good enough everywhere in the Alps. That would be my vote of confidence. The difficult bit is usually the poor standard of the run like icy surface but that should not be the case with Cervinia and Zermatt.
If one treats the French as the standard then it is true the Italian equivalent runs are slightly easier.
Zermatt is a high end resort and visible effort is made to protect its clients and visitors so in that sense the runs in general are not difficult.
In a way the red runs in Cervinia/Zermatt could be regarded easier because there are less people using them so there will be plenty snow and more space for everyone.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 24-11-11 2:08; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Feed her tequila/jaeger first, it'll all be fine... |
I tricked her into skiing on a hard blue piste in Tignes when she was learning skiing before and it didn't end well. She has stopped believing in my piste recommendation ever since which is why I am finding all the info before going there. I guess I have to give her a lot of drinks so that she forget the story in tignes and believe in my recommendation again 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| saikee wrote: |
I tend to think a red piste can be bordering with a blue piste but it can be also bordering with a black piste. In another word it fails to be classified as a blue because it is slight more difficult or it fails to mark as a black because it is not difficult or steep enough or its steep section is too short.
My point is when someone tackling a red he/she has to be prepared that its standard can be close to a black run.
Personally I think the red runs are pretty uniform in the Alps. There will be some easier while others are harder but red runs are the main piste in the majority of the European resorts. A skier should think if he/she has done red piste say on two large resorts he/she is good enough everywhere in the Alps. That would be my vote of confidence. The difficult bit is usually the poor standard of the run like icy surface but that should not be the case with Cervinia and Zermatt. |
I see. Thanks. I know that my girlfriend will definitely struggle with the average Red in France. It's just that I have heard that the red pistes are easier in Zermatt and Cervinia especially on the glacier. So I want to know whether that is true and how much easier those few red runs at the crossing are in relative to the ones in Tignes, with the hope that they are easy enough for her so that we can visit Zermatt. If they are close to black in Val d'isere (ie la face, even I struggle with that) for example, I don't think we will attempt the crossing and just stick to local lift pass. If they are easy, we might consider buying 1 week international pass.
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| saikee wrote: |
I tend to think a red piste can be bordering with a blue piste but it can be also bordering with a black piste. In another word it fails to be classified as a blue because it is slight more difficult or it fails to mark as a black because it is not difficult or steep enough or its steep section is too short.
My point is when someone tackling a red he/she has to be prepared that its standard can be close to a black run.
Personally I think the groomed red runs are pretty uniform in the Alps. There will be some easier while others are harder but red runs are the main piste in the majority of the European resorts. A skier should think if he/she has done red piste say on two large resorts he/she is good enough everywhere in the Alps. That would be my vote of confidence. The difficult bit is usually the poor standard of the run like icy surface but that should not be the case with Cervinia and Zermatt.
If one treats the French as the standard then it is true the Italian equivalent runs are slightly easier.
Zermatt is a high end resort and visible effort is made to protect its clients and visitors so in that sense the runs in general are not difficult.
In a way the red runs in Cervinia/Zermatt could be regarded easier because there are less people using them so there will be plenty snow and more space for everyone. |
Sorry I replied before you finished writing your message. Glad to hear that you also think that the reds should be easy in terms of good snow and high safety standard. How about the steepness of the red pistes on the zermatt glacier? Steep like average blue in France?
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You know it makes sense.
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kitjawatt, I've done this crossing a fair few times with skiers of different experience.
The red down from the Kleine Matterhorn to Testa Grigia is what I'd call an 'average' red for Switzeland. But because of the altitude it can feel tougher. It starts as a nice track but then has a steepish but very wide slope down to the Italian border. Probably like a 'hard' French blue. Takingbthe very longbdrags from Trocknersteg is the easier route.The long run down to Cervinia from Testa Grigia, the ventino, is a classic. One of my favourite runs. A little steep at the top but nothing too nothing too bad. Getting down to Cervinia 'the other way' by turning right as you approach testa Grigia is easier.
Coming back avoid the 3 chairlift route that dumps you on a rigde by the Theodulpass. the red the other side can turn into an icy chute - some people have really disliked that bit. Cable car up to testa Grigia is much better and the run down to Trocknersteg from there is almost flat. The red below Trocknersteg becomes a little steep but is v wide.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
That's great that you have been to both Tignes and Zermatt. Do you remember what are the red pistes like on the zermatt glacier in general comparing to the blue and red in tignes?
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kitjawatt, As I said in my first post my opinion FWIW is that the reds in Zermatt are easier than the reds in the Espace Killy and even easier than some of the blues on the Val D'Isere side. The one note of caution is that there are places where they get quite narrow. If such a place comes off the top of a cable car that can drop a couple of hundred skiers at a go, all of whom have to go the same way then it can get somewhat crowded and messy. In that case it can be a good plan to hang back and wait until just before the next cable car arrives to set off. I would say that if your girlfriend can get down Santons (blue) or Bluets (red) in good order then she has nothing to fear from the reds in Zermatt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I tricked her into skiing on a hard blue piste in Tignes when she was learning skiing before and it didn't end well. She has stopped believing in my piste recommendation ever since which is why I am finding all the info before going there. I guess I have to give her a lot of drinks so that she forget the story in tignes and believe in my recommendation again
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My husband did this to me (once) and has lived to regret it ever since! As a warning to all others, this situation will never have a happy ending, and creates untold long-lasting complications. Similar things happen when you make an a*&e of reading the map/signage and we end up on a black instead of the wide groomer you promised 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have been to both Zermatt and Tignes for each of the past 2 seasons. I would say that if she was OK on the steeper blues in Tignes - such as Anemone above Le Lac - or on double M then from a steepness point of view she will be fine on the glacier between Cervina and Zermatt. The Zermatt/Cervinia reds are in my opinion quite a bit easier than double M. The runs also tend to be VERY well maintained and are wide too (especially right at the top), so really not scary.
As others have said, it's very high (around 3800m I think) so may be windy and will certainly be quite cold. If she suffers from altitude sickness then obviously that may also affect things.
All in all little reason to be scared, but fear does not really follow "reason". Ultimately she won't thank you if you force her - she must feel comfortable doing it.
Zermatt is great and well worth a visit. MUCH prettier than Cervinia. Keep an eye on the weather, though - you don't want to get stuck on the wrong side if the lifts have to close due to strong winds, as the taxi fare back will sting your pocket. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You've had plenty of good advice so far but I'll chip in with my 2p.......
Obviously it's all relative to the conditions you have when you're there but I don't think you'll have any problems on the Cervinia side or on the glacier area. Piste grading is there for a reason but they can be counter productive e.g. I was in Le Plagne last year with a large mixed group one girl would not entertain anything red regardless, some blues were genuinley more challenging than some reds and I'd never drag anyone down something outside their comfort zone (there were a couple of current and ex-instructors among the group too).
She sounds a bit like your girlfriend as she'd formed an opinion of red pistes before even getting there. Obviosu thing is to get more lessons to build confidence in the long term but short term just try to assure her she can always bail out/turn back without feeling pressured....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My family group has an aversion to red as well. I've tried explaining over and over that a wide empty red is an order of magnitude less threatening than a busy narrow blue. But they won't have it.
In their imaginations, blues are flat, and reds are nearly vertical. Goodness knows what they imagine a black run to be like.
So I have a plan. I'm going to get the piste map for where we're going, and photoshop all the reds blue. and then print them out and hand them to the individuals concerned when we get there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Or choose a GF who asks the colour of the run after going down it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Goodness me.
Hahaha. Well done editing that last word in.
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kitjawatt, Just realised I gave you the lowdown on skiing froM zermatt to cervinia rather than vv so look at my response in that light!
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Went to Cervinia with the wife a few years back. The wife bless her has the red run phobia regardless of their difficulty, being colured red is enough for her! We coaxed her over to Zermatt 3 out of the 6 days and she loved it and had no problems at all. The only problem we had was the wind factor on one of the days coming back, it was blowing hard on the top and it was very cold, plus the way back is a long trek involving a very long drag or queueing for a cable car. I would say go over when the weather is calm and sunny and then you will have no issues (it can be blowing over the top even if it is calm lower down!). I echo what other people say in that going to Zermatt is well worth it, there is a greater variety of runs and the mountain restaurants are fantastic compared to Cervinia (just a bit expensive!).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pjd wrote: |
| kitjawatt, Just realised I gave you the lowdown on skiing froM zermatt to cervinia rather than vv so look at my response in that light! |
Thank you so much PJD for describing the options at the crossing. This is exactly what I want to know, eventhough it's the reverse of the journey  I'll try the easy route first.
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| Bogusman wrote: |
| Quote: |
That's great that you have been to both Tignes and Zermatt. Do you remember what are the red pistes like on the zermatt glacier in general comparing to the blue and red in tignes?
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kitjawatt, As I said in my first post my opinion FWIW is that the reds in Zermatt are easier than the reds in the Espace Killy and even easier than some of the blues on the Val D'Isere side. The one note of caution is that there are places where they get quite narrow. If such a place comes off the top of a cable car that can drop a couple of hundred skiers at a go, all of whom have to go the same way then it can get somewhat crowded and messy. In that case it can be a good plan to hang back and wait until just before the next cable car arrives to set off. I would say that if your girlfriend can get down Santons (blue) or Bluets (red) in good order then she has nothing to fear from the reds in Zermatt. |
Thanks Bogusman! It's much easier to imagine how hard the red pistes are relative to the one that you have skied on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| boardiac wrote: |
I have been to both Zermatt and Tignes for each of the past 2 seasons. I would say that if she was OK on the steeper blues in Tignes - such as Anemone above Le Lac - or on double M then from a steepness point of view she will be fine on the glacier between Cervina and Zermatt. The Zermatt/Cervinia reds are in my opinion quite a bit easier than double M. The runs also tend to be VERY well maintained and are wide too (especially right at the top), so really not scary.
As others have said, it's very high (around 3800m I think) so may be windy and will certainly be quite cold. If she suffers from altitude sickness then obviously that may also affect things.
All in all little reason to be scared, but fear does not really follow "reason". Ultimately she won't thank you if you force her - she must feel comfortable doing it.
Zermatt is great and well worth a visit. MUCH prettier than Cervinia. Keep an eye on the weather, though - you don't want to get stuck on the wrong side if the lifts have to close due to strong winds, as the taxi fare back will sting your pocket. |
That's great! She found Anemone easy and she finds double M ok. I hope that your message will convince her to she can do it. Thanks.
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| Grizwald wrote: |
You've had plenty of good advice so far but I'll chip in with my 2p.......
Obviously it's all relative to the conditions you have when you're there but I don't think you'll have any problems on the Cervinia side or on the glacier area. Piste grading is there for a reason but they can be counter productive e.g. I was in Le Plagne last year with a large mixed group one girl would not entertain anything red regardless, some blues were genuinley more challenging than some reds and I'd never drag anyone down something outside their comfort zone (there were a couple of current and ex-instructors among the group too).
She sounds a bit like your girlfriend as she'd formed an opinion of red pistes before even getting there. Obviosu thing is to get more lessons to build confidence in the long term but short term just try to assure her she can always bail out/turn back without feeling pressured.... |
That's a good point. I'll let her read all the comments and let her decide whether she want to cross over to the lovely resort of Zermatt
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You know it makes sense.
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| paulio wrote: |
My family group has an aversion to red as well. I've tried explaining over and over that a wide empty red is an order of magnitude less threatening than a busy narrow blue. But they won't have it.
In their imaginations, blues are flat, and reds are nearly vertical. Goodness knows what they imagine a black run to be like.
So I have a plan. I'm going to get the piste map for where we're going, and photoshop all the reds blue. and then print them out and hand them to the individuals concerned when we get there. |
I'll order a scanner and photoshop software tonight
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| saikee wrote: |
| Or choose a GF who asks the colour of the run after going down it. |
I guess you only find those girls in olympic skiing camp!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Kaiser846 wrote: |
| Went to Cervinia with the wife a few years back. The wife bless her has the red run phobia regardless of their difficulty, being colured red is enough for her! We coaxed her over to Zermatt 3 out of the 6 days and she loved it and had no problems at all. The only problem we had was the wind factor on one of the days coming back, it was blowing hard on the top and it was very cold, plus the way back is a long trek involving a very long drag or queueing for a cable car. I would say go over when the weather is calm and sunny and then you will have no issues (it can be blowing over the top even if it is calm lower down!). I echo what other people say in that going to Zermatt is well worth it, there is a greater variety of runs and the mountain restaurants are fantastic compared to Cervinia (just a bit expensive!). |
Thank you Kaiser 846! I am exactly in the same situation that you were in! My girlfriend will be pleased to see your message 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In my view the run down from Testa Grigia back to Cervinia is harder than the ones down the other side towards Furgg. So suggest you do that on day 1 and if she is OK, then you'll know you're alright to head toward Zermatt.
For the fantastic restaurants etc you need to get at least as far as Furi. As others have posted, the black directly down isn't a tough black, but alternatively there is the long way round up to Schwarzsee and via Stafel. Right under the Matterhorn. Though it is a pretty flat track from there to Furi.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kitjawatt, Have been to both Cervinia and Zermatt and skiing down to Trockener Steg is not hard and the view is fantastic. If your girlfriend didn't want to ski down to Zermatt you could get the gondola from Trockener Steg down to Zermatt, alternitively you could get of at Furi get another gondola up to Riffelberg then train up to Gornergrat, the blues there are good. It really is worth it but as others have said you have to watch the weather and the time for getting back. Check YouTube or Flickr for videos as there must be loads.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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These women just need to man up and get on with it (before you point it out, I know that's a contradiction in terms). You can always edge down if you need to, and if you don't try it how will you know you're not missing the best run ever? I've definitely skiied reds that were less crowded (therefore in better condition as less people to scrape all the snow off) and more fun with better views than alternative blue routes.
In my first week in Le Tours the instructor made us edge down a steep red just so we knew how to, I have to say it was pretty invaluable skill to learn because knowing that you can at least get down more or less any run that way if you need to goes some way towards preventing that rising panic you can get when the run seems too hard.
Also you get a nice confidence boost and sense of achievement when you first manage a tricky run, which you'll never get if you stick to blues all the time.
As an aside, in La Plagne there's that blue (down off la Grand Rochette bubble IIRC??) that has a section that's way steeper than a lot of the reds (but wider), and often crammed with people. Definitely a worse experience than most reds in LP IMO. The red/blue divide is very hazy, you often can't really differentiate between a hard blue and an easy red.
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